Luigi Habs
Captain Saku
Exactly the player Juve needs. They tried hard last summer to sign him but Lazio rejected all offers. Hopefully it works this time.
Serie A 2017/18
- Thread starter Milos Krasic
- Start date
Exactly the player Juve needs. They tried hard last summer to sign him but Lazio rejected all offers. Hopefully it works this time.
Luigi Habs
Captain Saku
Incubajerks
Registered User
Where do we start from? From bets on his matches or his real estate scams? Did not you know that he is a fascist? Those who live in Italy and breathe football know very well who Buffon is, so I say that abroad is much more loved but simply because you do not know the whole story.
I leave out private life, which everyone knows, and statements made to journalists. It was so nice to hear him after the Madrid defeat, after the many Juventus steals in Italy did not accept the adverse decisions in Europe.
It would have been nice to see him expelled as he deserved Saturday
So...great keeper half a person!
Luigi Habs
Captain Saku
Where do we start from? From bets on his matches or his real estate scams? Did not you know that he is a fascist? Those who live in Italy and breathe football know very well who Buffon is, so I say that abroad is much more loved but simply because you do not know the whole story.
I leave out private life, which everyone knows, and statements made to journalists. It was so nice to hear him after the Madrid defeat, after the many Juventus steals in Italy did not accept the adverse decisions in Europe.
It would have been nice to see him expelled as he deserved Saturday
So...great keeper half a person!
Regarding his possible fascist views, I know there were lots of talks when he started earlier in his career wearing a number that is tied with fascism (number 98 I guess). I don’t know how we can make a clear cut correlation based on that. I have never heard or read a direct quote from him on that regard. And at 17/18 yrs old you’re probably very influenced by your upbringing. I’m 33 and I can tell you I’m a totally different person than what I was at 18.
Also regarding his shady businesses, how is it different than Messi and Ronaldo shady schemes to escape paying taxes?
Incubajerks
Registered User
Sure but i learnt the "Boia chi molla" meaning when i was 10. At 18 it would never have occurred to me to wear a shirt with that phrase. I would not have exhibited a celtic cross the night I became world champion. I would have talked differently about Piazzale Loreto and so on and on and on....furthemore he embodies exactly the (non) peculiarities of his team.
Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo bet heavily on their team's games?
"Ciao Gigi, ti scrive un miserabile". Dura lettera a Buffon
Here you can make an interesting reading. All things known here in Italy, I just hope the translation of Google can be sufficiently exact (but I do not think so!).
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robertmac43
Forever 43!
- Mar 31, 2015
- 23,396
- 15,513
With Buffon there's definitely a pattern of problematic behavior, but unfortunately that same pattern also extends across Italian football. Almost all major sides have such star players and club legends, not to mention numerous ultra factions and in some cases entire clubs like Lazio and Hellas. Thus I see Buffon mostly as a product of a sick culture, an environment where wrong things are revered.
Italy has a sick culture? What? Sicker than Austria voting right extremists to power? Sicker than former Nazi country still having neo-nazis existing in their elections? Sicker than a county invaded by nazis voting for a fascist in their second round? Sicker than a country where schoolars are being shot every week and their sick president proposing that teachers are given guns to fight that?
Italy isn't more of a sick culture than plenty of european (and worldwide) countries.
Italy isn't more of a sick culture than plenty of european (and worldwide) countries.
Live in the Now
Registered User
Buffon definitely has fascist leanings, but to some extent I agree with @Luigi Habs on this one. However, maybe Buffon has simply decided it is now easier to not discuss his feelings and avoid controversy.
On Buffon, Abbiati, Rossi, Sereni, Tacconi... and those are just national team goalkeepers with such issues.
Incubajerks
Registered User
It is a problem of personal ignorance, just as it is a problem of personal culture. You are going totally off the field if you extend the cultural problem to Italy in general. We do know that the Hellas fans have a political orientation and yet we also know that they are the best supporters in Italy. We all know Di Canio's political orientation, for example, and yet he is a very often beloved player. Nobody hates Buffon, simply many people not like him for his behavior regardless of his political orientation.
These players come from most if not all major clubs, some express their views openly, but it does little to harm their careers. They still get called up, get new contracts, are idolized as before. The effects you can see in Roma too, the club culture has changed steering towards one extreme not that different from Lazio.
Italy has a problem historically with fascism - not just being the cradle for it, but also not processing it after the War.
They had no Nűrnberg process or anything of the sort - they literally had Mussolini and his mistress shot and hanged on the square - and that was it.
Everyone else who had anything and everything to do with the fascist regime went scot-free and a lot of them even got major functions in the new government. Italy never had their own confrontation with fascism like Germany did with nazism.
That said, it's hardly endemic to Italy, the rise of right-wing nuttery across Europe and the uneducated athletes falling into its jaws.
Ultras are almost exclusively tied to right-wing, in any country.
For a young footballer like Buffon was, with modest education (or none), in a religious country, surrounded by some more uneducated, religious people, and pampered by right-wing ultras, and then glorified by right-wing politicians because they did this and that in the name of "God and country"... You can see how it occurs.
It happens in Croatia as well, most of our athletes are uneducated and indoctrinated with religion, and the church does almost daily work for the right-wing - its not a far step for those athletes to adopt similir views, lacking education and critical thinking.
Mateo Kovacic and Dario Simic, for example, are just bonkers when it comes to religion.
Our former handball national team manager once said "his friend Jesus" secured the win for them vs Poland a couple of years ago. Apparently, Jesus likes catholic Croats more than catholic Poles.
The next round they lost to Spain. Because apparently Jesus likes catholic Spaniards more than catholic Croats.
Blanka Vlasic, the famous high-jumper (and sister to Everton's Nikola Vlasic), is another example of just going bananas with religion.
My point is, all these kids are uneducated and exposed to religion a lot - and then just surrounded by more of the same, and by some right nutters.
I'm not excusing Buffon's fascist takes on stuff back in the day.
I'm not saying he "couldn't have known better" or anything like that - a just society rests on the principle of personal responsibility, as Hitches used to say.
And I'm not saying Italy is worse than other countries in that regard (though I'd say it just gets worse the further east you go).
I'm just trying to explain the circumstances in which these athletes grow up (or a lot of them, at least), and how it can occur easier in that surrounding compared to, I dunno, a guy studying architecture in the capital city, surrounded by more kids receiving education and exposed to globalism etc.
Incubajerks
Registered User
Hmmm I can say that it is not so, especially the scot-free part: Mezzasoma, Casalinuovo, Bombacci, Romano, Coppola, Utimperghe, Zerbino, Nudi, Daquanno, Calistri, Barraco, Pavolini and so on and on...I do not know what hierarchs you mean played a role in the next government. In the end, personal thought, there is a fundamental problem in talking about fascism in Italy because you will find so much ignorance while it is always difficult to find passionate of what fascism left in the form of arts (which is what interests me and it's all around us here). However, I believe that in other countries they have greater problems with extreme rights and it will become a bigger problem in all Europe i fear.
Fair enough, let me rephrase that, as I was slightly exaggerating to make a point:
Unlike in other countries that were the "baddies" in WW2, fascist/nazi etc regimes, Italy held no war crimes tribunal after the war (unlike Germany or Japan).
There were some summary executions (like the Mussolini one I mentioned), and show trials, but it was done as retribution at the end of the Civil War - not organized in any real way, or any form that would have the Italian people face fascism for what it was.
It took a long time for this to happen in Germany, but it did.
That violence toned down after the Togliatti treaty pardoned pardoned all wartime crimes in 1946 (including all fascists, obviously).
Unlike in other countries that were the "baddies" in WW2, fascist/nazi etc regimes, Italy held no war crimes tribunal after the war (unlike Germany or Japan).
There were some summary executions (like the Mussolini one I mentioned), and show trials, but it was done as retribution at the end of the Civil War - not organized in any real way, or any form that would have the Italian people face fascism for what it was.
It took a long time for this to happen in Germany, but it did.
That violence toned down after the Togliatti treaty pardoned pardoned all wartime crimes in 1946 (including all fascists, obviously).
Incubajerks
Registered User
It may be that I remember badly, but that amnesty included military and political crimes. It did not include all types of crime and I believe that crimes over a total of years did not fall within the amnesty.
Everything you say is true Corto, what I had a problem with is someone saying Buffon was like this because of italian cutlture. Given the state of neo-fascism in all of Europe, including Germany, France, or even across the ocean, it's a bit ironic.
Italy doesn't deserve to be pointed out as a cradle for fascist culture any more than other countries.
Only Spain seems to avoid that right wing extremist party. Probably because they're only recent escapers.
Italy doesn't deserve to be pointed out as a cradle for fascist culture any more than other countries.
Only Spain seems to avoid that right wing extremist party. Probably because they're only recent escapers.
What is wrong with being religious? You sound like a typical communist. I'm sure the Yugoslav flag is still hanging somewhere.
We can take that up in the closed politics forum if you want.
Based on...? Me being an atheist? LOL.
I was here the whole war, with my entire family. We lost relatives, we lost houses, we had to move.
Doesn't mean that 25 years later I have to live in some bulls*it world filled with resentment and anger, driven by fear of a made-up enemy and hate for anything and anyone that's different.
And you're proving part of my point with that sentence, religion ties in very closely with nationalism.
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maclean
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2014
- 8,488
- 2,598
At the risk of veering too off-topic, there is obviously a big difference between being religious in terms of one's own beliefs and using religion to pit groups of people against each other for one's own political/material gain, or allowing one's religion to be used to manipulate you, the latter obviously being what Corto is referring to here. Also, it's kind of laughable to be setting up religion x commnism as some kind of dichotomy in a Croation context, as if it's not the same people getting rich off them both.
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