Sens reduce capacity at Canadian Tire Centre

[JD1]

From the Treasury Board of Canada website:

https://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/report/orp/2007/er-ed/vol2/vol202-eng.asp

"In aggregate, employer‑paid components other than regular salary amount to about 38% of total regular pay. "

So my 40% seems like a solid number.

The phrase you originally used was loaded cost of labour. I used the term total compensation. This article is about total compensation. These terms mean different things.

What you've quoted here is an archived total cost of compensation study from 14 years ago. Over the past 14 years, pubic servants have started to pay a higher %age for all of their benefits and their employer, the govt, has paid less. As a result, from the govt perspective, the total cost of compensation is not as large a percentage as it used to be of total salary. The nice little graphs also include various payroll taxes, OT, variable allowancew etc.

So, start at the 38%, back out items that are not included in total cost of compensation and then try to assess the decrease in the govt's contribution to benefits and pretty soon you'll get down to the 20% number I quoted.

 

[JD1]

My issue is with this cheap owner, he is quickly becoming like the Leibermans for me.
- replaced Marshy's with Bert's Bar, We used to eat at Marshy's regular but I have yet to step foot into Bert's bar.
- took out numerous Tim Horton concessions & now lineups have tripled or worse.
- increased parking costs, now I don't drive to games any more.
- refused to send me tickets, now expects me to use my own ink to print tickets even though I've paid hundreds of dollars for tickets. Ink is more expensive than the damn printers these days & if he is too cheap to send me tickets than I'll stop going & save my money.

Not eating at Bert's is a choice you've made though. What Melnyk did that was pretty standard stuff. Brad Marsh didn't have any lifetime guarantee of operating a bar there. If he did, he'd still be there. I've been to Bert's many times, the beer is just as cold as it was at Marshy's and the finger food is just as fingery. The way I look at it, if Melnyk makes a few hundred K at Bert's then that's a few hundred K he doesn't need to make on ticket revenue. Sucks if your Marsh, but as a guy that played pro for 15 years or whatever it was, I'm sure he's doing ok.

The ticket thing I am not fond of either however Melnyk is not alone in that. That's happening all over north America for entertainment events. The Habs stopped issuing season tickets to STH a year or tow ago as well.

As a Tim's fan, I can appreciate that you are looking at longer lineups. But do those former Tim's spots sit vacant? I'm thinking that typically more variety in concessions would be a good thing no? Personally, I think the concession situation is better now than its ever been as far as food quality goes. Pricey as hell, but you can get pretty decent food if you didn't manage to scarf down supper prior to heading to the game.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Tim's is absolute trash. Good thing they got rid of them.

Not sending tickets is not a Melnyk or Sens thing. Pretty standard now.

 

[Caeldan]

If you have never gone into Bert's Bar, how do you know it's something to hold against him? Maybe it's an upgrade to what you remember of Marshys, you have no idea!

 

[Ohhh Franco]

This organization is desperate for some good energy or press. If they haven't been in contact with the Atlanta Falcons and the powers that be at Mercedes-Benz Stadium about their concessions strategy, I'd be pretty upset. Sens have to give the people of this city less reasons to NOT go to the games - and IMO, it starts with parking and concessions. Big questions is whether or not Sens can afford to drop their prices? How desperate are they for those profits? Only the people with the hard numbers can answer that I guess.

Anyways, here's a quick little rundown and opinion on concession pricing at MBS in Atlanta.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/atlanta-falcons-stadium-cheap-concessions

 

[Caeldan]

This organization is desperate for some good energy or press. If they haven't been in contact with the Atlanta Falcons and the powers that be at Mercedes-Benz Stadium about their concessions strategy, I'd be pretty upset. Sens have to give the people of this city less reasons to NOT go to the games - and IMO, it starts with parking and concessions. Big questions is whether or not Sens can afford to drop their prices? How desperate are they for those profits? Only the people with the hard numbers can answer that I guess.

Anyways, here's a quick little rundown and opinion on concession pricing at MBS in Atlanta.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/atlanta-falcons-stadium-cheap-concessions

With Aramark controlling concessions though, how much is the pricing actually in Melnyk's hands? I mean he gets paid I'd assume for the right for Aramark to be in there and then they control what is supplied and for how much.

I mean he could spend to sudsidize, but that's money out of his pocket and would it generate the extra ticket sales to cover the cost? Especially since in that case each additional concession sale is more money out of his pocket.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This organization is desperate for some good energy or press. If they haven't been in contact with the Atlanta Falcons and the powers that be at Mercedes-Benz Stadium about their concessions strategy, I'd be pretty upset. Sens have to give the people of this city less reasons to NOT go to the games - and IMO, it starts with parking and concessions. Big questions is whether or not Sens can afford to drop their prices? How desperate are they for those profits? Only the people with the hard numbers can answer that I guess.

Anyways, here's a quick little rundown and opinion on concession pricing at MBS in Atlanta.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/atlanta-falcons-stadium-cheap-concessions

Atlanta is not comparable to Ottawa. Different demographic and food shouldn't be a reason you go or don't go to a game.

 

[Smash88]

Atlanta is not comparable to Ottawa. Different demographic and food shouldn't be a reason you go or don't go to a game.

Now I'm starting to think you are someone with the Sens.

That's almost word for word what they told me at the STH meeting last year when I brought up smoking as a reason season seat sales were going down.

If people are saying food is an issue, does it really matter if you think it is or not?

 

[Upgrayedd]

This organization is desperate for some good energy or press. If they haven't been in contact with the Atlanta Falcons and the powers that be at Mercedes-Benz Stadium about their concessions strategy, I'd be pretty upset. Sens have to give the people of this city less reasons to NOT go to the games - and IMO, it starts with parking and concessions. Big questions is whether or not Sens can afford to drop their prices? How desperate are they for those profits? Only the people with the hard numbers can answer that I guess.

Anyways, here's a quick little rundown and opinion on concession pricing at MBS in Atlanta.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/atlanta-falcons-stadium-cheap-concessions

The concessions are crazy and parking is steep imo, 20 beans for a beer and hot dog and they add the tip function to the debit machines now....lol come on

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Now I'm starting to think you are someone with the Sens.

That's almost word for word what they told me at the STH meeting last year when I brought up smoking as a reason season seat sales were going down.

If people are saying food is an issue, does it really matter if you think it is or not?

I don't work for them. Nobody else is saying food is a big issue. That;s certainly not a reason anyone I know would go to a sporting event or not.

 

[Smash88]

I don't work for them. Nobody else is saying food is a big issue. That;s certainly not a reason anyone I know would go to a sporting event or not.

I was just kidding about the working for the Sens..

I just find it funny, that people bring up issues and then they get dismissed by someone who doesn't have that issue.

The Sens brass basically thinks the same way. It is the wrong approach to take when your trying to gain fans.

 

[Ohhh Franco]

I don't work for them. Nobody else is saying food is a big issue. That;s certainly not a reason anyone I know would go to a sporting event or not.

Im telling you 100% between parking and concessions there are lots and lots and lots of people who complain and don't go to the games because of it. No doubt in my mind. I really don't hear many people complain about ticket pricing - it's always about the other stuff. Crazy prices on beer, popcorn, Cokes and parking give people reasons not to go to games and rather stay home or go to a bar. It pisses people off. Gives them a reason to complain. Gives them a reasons NOT to go. This org should be exploring every opportunity to create some positive energy and press and needs to relate to the average fan because going to 2OT of ECF Game 7 vs eventual champs didn't do enough obviously.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Im telling you 100% between parking and concessions there are lots and lots and lots of people who complain and don't go to the games because of it. No doubt in my mind. I really don't hear many people complain about ticket pricing - it's always about the other stuff. Crazy prices on beer, popcorn, Cokes and parking give people reasons not to go to games and rather stay home or go to a bar. It pisses people off. Gives them a reason to complain. Gives them a reasons NOT to go. This org should be exploring every opportunity to create some positive energy and press and needs to relate to the average fan because going to 2OT of ECF Game 7 vs eventual champs didn't do enough obviously.

Well I don't want those type of fans there anyway. I want the diehards. Not the soft babies whining about food and traffic.

 

[Ohhh Franco]

Yep, different markets and sports, but same business essentially that's facing the same problems - getting people to get up off their couches and walking away form their 4K 60' TV and spending money watching the game live in your rink/stadium.

 

[philb613]

With Aramark controlling concessions though, how much is the pricing actually in Melnyk's hands? I mean he gets paid I'd assume for the right for Aramark to be in there and then they control what is supplied and for how much.

I mean he could spend to sudsidize, but that's money out of his pocket and would it generate the extra ticket sales to cover the cost? Especially since in that case each additional concession sale is more money out of his pocket.

Melnyk actually collects most of the profit from concessions, the deal Aramark has is pretty shitty. I forget the exact details but remember when one of the employees told me the profit sharing model I wondered how Aramark even made a profit.

 

[philb613]

Also I agree with other posters, the parking is ridiculous combine that with concessions increasing in price every year it's enough to turn a lot of people away from going. I mean you can find a ticket for most games for under 40 bucks, but to park in a giant parking lot in the middle of nowhere it's half the price of a ticket.

 

[Back in Black]

I agree with a lot of your remarks, but didn't Marshy's actually go under? That place was a ghost town in the off-season. The Leibermans comment was funny!

My issue is with this cheap owner, he is quickly becoming like the Leibermans for me.
- replaced Marshy's with Bert's Bar, We used to eat at Marshy's regular but I have yet to step foot into Bert's bar.
- took out numerous Tim Horton concessions & now lineups have tripled or worse.
- increased parking costs, now I don't drive to games any more.
- refused to send me tickets, now expects me to use my own ink to print tickets even though I've paid hundreds of dollars for tickets. Ink is more expensive than the damn printers these days & if he is too cheap to send me tickets than I'll stop going & save my money.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Well I don't want those type of fans there anyway. I want the diehards. Not the soft babies whining about food and traffic.

There aren’t enough “diehards” to sustain an NHL franchise in Ottawa.

The goal should be to expand the fan base, not shrink it. In this market at least.

 

[Micklebot]

Well I don't want those type of fans there anyway. I want the diehards. Not the soft babies whining about food and traffic.

what an ass backwards way to run a business that would be...

I want all types of fans, parents who bring their kids are extremely valuable, and can be very cost sensitive (adds up pretty damn quick to bring a family of 4). Those kids end up being the die hard fans you want too, so attracting those families that you don't want there is a big part of creating the die hard fans in the first place.

Sports entertainment is a product, like any other; businesses cater to their clients, not the other way around. I'll never understand any business or person that calls out the customer for not just accepting the product as is or dismissing someone from their client bases opinion. You can't make everyone happy, but you certainly shouldn't be so brazen as to tell a consumer what the should and shouldn't like/want. You can opt not to target that particular consumer because it doesn't make business sense, but to say their concern shouldn't matter to anyone is just bizarre to me.

 

[Mingus Dew]

what an ass backwards way to run a business that would be...

I want all types of fans, parents who bring their kids are extremely valuable, and can be very cost sensitive (adds up pretty damn quick to bring a family of 4). Those kids end up being the die hard fans you want too, so attracting those families that you don't want there is a big part of creating the die hard fans in the first place.

Sports entertainment is a product, like any other; businesses cater to their clients, not the other way around. I'll never understand any business or person that calls out the customer for not just accepting the product as is or dismissing someone from their client bases opinion. You can't make everyone happy, but you certainly shouldn't be so brazen as to tell a consumer what the should and shouldn't like/want. You can opt not to target that particular consumer because it doesn't make business sense, but to say their concern shouldn't matter to anyone is just bizarre to me.

Some businesses want to narrow their focus and completely capture a very small segment of the market. Pretty common with luxury and lifestyle brands.

NHL hockey ain’t that.

 

[Micklebot]

Some businesses want to narrow their focus and completely capture a very small segment of the market. Pretty common with luxury and lifestyle brands.

NHL hockey ain’t that.

Agreed, but those luxury brands to say you are wrong not to like our product, they don't blame customers for not buying what they provide, they just target their efforts to a niche market. If their sales struggle, they re-evaluate what they are doing, Business reacts to the market needs, not the other way around.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

If it were up to me, you'd be kicked out of the arena if you yell shoot. Dead serious. So annoying.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I can say for certain Melnyk doesn't care who attends the game as long as there are people attending

 

[Mingus Dew]

Agreed, but those luxury brands to say you are wrong not to like our product, they don't blame customers for not buying what they provide, they just target their efforts to a niche market. If their sales struggle, they re-evaluate what they are doing, Business reacts to the market needs, not the other way around.

Totally. I’m saying that NHL hockey isn’t a niche market in the traditional sense. Sports entertainment in general is all about broad-based appeal and expanding the consumer base as much as possible.

If a sports team were to only focus on “diehards” (I hate that term but that’s another matter) it would go bankrupt pretty quickly.

The organization should be doing everything in its power to make the game more, not less, accessible to the average NHL hockey consumer. It’s why I find the whole tarping strategy so perplexing.

 

[coladin]

Is that a Sens thing or a tim Hortons (or whoever is running) thing? I would haveimagined they might outsource management of concession, for example to a company like Aramark. Did they replace tim hortons with a different option or just leave a vacant spot?

If you want something other than coffee, like a donut or Timbits, you get in line. If you want coffee, Sens changed it years ago (just shows how uninformed people still are) that EVERY concessions stand has Tim's.