Speculation: Sens, Lebreton, and the NCC

[Take a Bath Son]

starting a new thread to discuss the fireworks that I sincerely hope will result from this weeks NCC meetings:

Link to agenda and webcast:

| National Capital Commission


Melnyk is in town and NCC CEO Mark Kristmanson suggested in November this will be a Milestone meeting. To me the issues of Ownership and Lebreton are by far the most important surrounding this franchise. Discussing boucher, dorion, trades, all pale in comparison because the cancer in this team starts with eugene Melnyk. The senators' survival, IMHO depends on a change in Ownership and an arena at lebreton.

Are there any predictions for thursday? I thought of 4 possible outcomes:

1. NCC will say very little (despite the milestone comment in November) and we'll learn next to nothing.
2. They will say that they are starting discussions with Devcore (unlikely but possible)
3. They have an agreement with Rendez-Vous-with Melnyk remaining as Sens owner
4. They have an agreement with Rendez-Vous-with new ownership structure.

Personally, I am hoping to see a Desmarais/Laliberte purchase of the Sens, partnering with Ruddy to develop Lebreton. I don't know how likely that is, but I think if we got that, this franchise will be a force to reckon with 4-5 years from now.

Click to read more...

 

[bigfatfist]

This deal will fall apart after the NCC land transfer. That's a complex deal, but nowhere near the same tension as when Melnyk needs to actually find the money to build Lebreton and starts fighting with the City of Ottawa about it. (IMO)

 

[Knave]

I think it would depend on how interested Desmarais and Laliberte are in hockey. It's possible things aren't much better than they are with Melnyk.

The ultimate goal has to be to get an arena in LeBreton for the Sens to move to at some point in the next ~10 years. It will provide closer and easier access for young fans who may prefer public transport as cheaper (or so they can drink). It will provide easier access for older fans who can stay downtown after work, eat and then go to the game.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It will also raise ticket prices considerably.

I am hopeful and optimistic but it won't fix this market's underlying core issues.

 

[Fandlauer]

Sincerely hoping we find out that everything has fallen apart for Rendezvous and that the NCC is heading in another direction. Devcore or bust at this point.

 

[Micklebot]

It will also raise ticket prices considerably.

I am hopeful and optimistic but it won't fix this market's underlying core issues.

If it raises ticket prices, that means it's working out well, because they can't raise prices without solving the attendance problem. Prices are reactionary to what the public is willing to pay, not the other way around.

Also, option 1 is the likely result. Little said, little learned. Some sort of cookie cutter statment like thinkgs are progressing. Complicated process.

 

[tony d]

I don't live in Ottawa so I don't know much about where things are there but to me we need to get a downtown arena and quickly. Let's see if we can get 1 by 2022 which will be the 30th anniversary of the team.

 

[dumbdick]

People need to lay off Melnyk. Even if you don't like the man, he's done a lot for this franchise, past and present. He might not be the ideal owner but without Eug there's no franchise in this town.

Run him out of town and its partially on you. Don't ever forget that you damned bloody ingrates.

*partialsarcasm*

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

This deal will fall apart after the NCC land transfer. That's a complex deal, but nowhere near the same tension as when Melnyk needs to actually find the money to build Lebreton and starts fighting with the City of Ottawa about it. (IMO)

Please elaborate ........... the City of Ottawa does NOT own Lebreton Flats, the NCC does......... so why would Melnyk "fight" with the City of Ottawa???

You do understand that in the RFP process the NCC clearly stated that "no Public money of any kind be involved in any way" right?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

.To me the issues of Ownership and Lebreton are by far the most important surrounding this franchise. Discussing boucher, dorion, trades, all pale in comparison because the cancer in this team starts with eugene Melnyk. The senators' survival, IMHO depends on a change in Ownership and an arena at lebreton.

You do know that the Senators would not be playing in Ottawa if it had not been for Melnyk.

He has tried a number of things to help keep the Franchise viable, and operating in Kanata ........... but has only been rebuffed by local Municipal government.

For example, he wanted a zoning change to built a huge soccer complex and attract a NASL team, but the City said no. He wanted another zoning change to build a Casino on site, the City said no.


So he now has the foresight to realize that in order to keep the Senators viable in the Ottawa Market, he needs to move to new Arena in Lebreton Flats ......... and entered the RFP process with the NCC , and is now in negotiations to re-develop Lebreton Flats, and build a new state of the art NHL Arena as it's centerpiece .................. you're calling him a "cancer"????


It's "fans" like you who are the cancer, who want nothing but negativity to befall the current Owner, love him or hate him, he is the owner and is doing what he sees as what is best for the long tern stability and success for the Senators .......... and "fans" like you are just crapping all over him. You must be proud of yourself.

Is Melnyk the best owner in the NHL? Perhaps not, but the reality is that he is the Owner of the team that Ottawa fans support, and until that changes wishing the destruction of his plans to re-locate the Team to Lebreton Flats is idiotic in my opinion.

 

[Micklebot]

Please elaborate ........... the City of Ottawa does NOT own Lebreton Flats, the NCC does......... so why would Melnyk "fight" with the City of Ottawa???

You do understand that in the RFP the NCC clearly stated that "no Public money of any kind be involved in any way" right?

Can you provide the quote from the RFP that says that? Not a qite from the guy that lost the bid, but the actual part of the RFP that so clearly states this

 

[ChelFan31]

Can the Board of Governors not force Melnyk out of the NHL ? Is Bettman completely powerless here ???

 

[BonkTastic]

I am not optimistic that this deal gets done with Melnyk involved.

He's already publicly started to prepare the fanbase for a long future at the current arena in Kanata during his outdoor-game rant, and I quote:

"I'm all in, but it wouldn't be a disaster for us at all if LeBreton didn't happen"

"We need something to happen at one point. Something's got to break somewhere and I mean a positive break.... I don't trust anything happening our way necessarily."

Those are direct Melnyk quotes about the Lebreton process. I'm not saying it's doomed, but the fact that there is public discussion coming from the organization's side that prepares for a scenario that doesn't involve the Sens moving downtown suggests to me that it's more likely than a lot of fans would think.

 

[ChelFan31]

I am not optimistic that this deal gets done with Melnyk involved.

He's already publicly started to prepare the fanbase for a long future at the current arena in Kanata during his outdoor-game rant, and I quote:

"I'm all in, but it wouldn't be a disaster for us at all if LeBreton didn't happen"

"We need something to happen at one point. Something's got to break somewhere and I mean a positive break.... I don't trust anything happening our way necessarily."

Those are direct Melnyk quotes about the Lebreton process. I'm not saying it's doomed, but the fact that there is public discussion coming from the organization's side that prepares for a scenario that doesn't involve the Sens moving downtown suggests to me that it's more likely than a lot of fans would think.

Feel like there is a break in the Eugene Melnyk John Ruddy relationship. Apparently Ruddy isn't so fond on being partners with Melnyk ... wish he was partners with anyone buy Melnyk.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

You do know that the Senators would not be playing in Ottawa if it had not been for Melnyk.

He has tried a number of things to help keep the Franchise viable, and operating in Kanata ........... but has only been rebuffed by local Municipal government.

For example, he wanted a zoning change to built a huge soccer complex and attract a NASL team, but the City said no. He wanted another zoning change to build a Casino on site, the City said no.


So he now has the foresight to realize that in order to keep the Senators viable in the Ottawa Market, he needs to move to new Arena in Lebreton Flats ......... and entered the RFP process with the NCC , and is now in negotiations to re-develop Lebreton Flats, and build a new state of the art NHL Arena as it's centerpiece .................. you're calling him a "cancer"????


It's "fans" like you who are the cancer, who want nothing but negativity to befall the current Owner, love him or hate him, he is the owner and is doing what he sees as what is best for the long tern stability and success for the Senators .......... and "fans" like you are just crapping all over him. You must be proud of yourself.

Is Melnyk the best owner in the NHL? Perhaps not, but the reality is that he is the Owner of the team that Ottawa fans support, and until that changes wishing the destruction of his plans to re-locate the Team to Lebreton Flats is idiotic in my opinion.

Appreciate the reply and totally get the passion and anger. Many of us feel the same and want this team to thrive.

As for my comment; it was harsh and we do owe him a debt of gratitude for saving the team and yes, he got a raw shake from city council on at least 2 occasions. I was angry at that time too.

That being said,it is clear that the hockey dream in Kanata is dying. Mid week games are bringing in 14k now. More importantly though is that Melnyk does not have the cash flow to run this team and effect the changes needed for it to thrive. At least I don’t think so. Due to possible cash flow issues a horrible culture has developed in the organization. The team has operating profit but losses money due to debt financing.

A new owner with deep pockets that can bring the team downtown is the only way forward IMHO. I am thankful for Melnyks past actions to save the team, understanding that he has gotten a bad shake from the city in the past but it appears he is running this team to the ground now and for that to me he is the problem now.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Can the Board of Governors not force Melnyk out of the NHL ? Is Bettman completely powerless here ???

They can.

 

[ToastrStutzle]

They're going to kick the can further down the road. No Major news will come out thursday imo

 

[coladin]

If it raises ticket prices, that means it's working out well, because they can't raise prices without solving the attendance problem. Prices are reactionary to what the public is willing to pay, not the other way around.

Also, option 1 is the likely result. Little said, little learned. Some sort of cookie cutter statment like thinkgs are progressing. Complicated process.

I don't see how they can make Lebreton work with CTC prices

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You do know that the Senators would not be playing in Ottawa if it had not been for Melnyk.

He has tried a number of things to help keep the Franchise viable, and operating in Kanata ........... but has only been rebuffed by local Municipal government.

For example, he wanted a zoning change to built a huge soccer complex and attract a NASL team, but the City said no. He wanted another zoning change to build a Casino on site, the City said no.


So he now has the foresight to realize that in order to keep the Senators viable in the Ottawa Market, he needs to move to new Arena in Lebreton Flats ......... and entered the RFP process with the NCC , and is now in negotiations to re-develop Lebreton Flats, and build a new state of the art NHL Arena as it's centerpiece .................. you're calling him a "cancer"????


It's "fans" like you who are the cancer, who want nothing but negativity to befall the current Owner, love him or hate him, he is the owner and is doing what he sees as what is best for the long tern stability and success for the Senators .......... and "fans" like you are just crapping all over him. You must be proud of yourself.

Is Melnyk the best owner in the NHL? Perhaps not, but the reality is that he is the Owner of the team that Ottawa fans support, and until that changes wishing the destruction of his plans to re-locate the Team to Lebreton Flats is idiotic in my opinion.

There were other potential owners lining up to buy this team when it was in bankruptcy. Not just Melynk, so we can lay this "he saved the franchise" fairy tale to bed.

 

[Masked]

People need to lay off Melnyk. Even if you don't like the man, he's done a lot for this franchise, past and present. He might not be the ideal owner but without Eug there's no franchise in this town.

Fake news.

He's done little for the franchise in the present. He's done less for the franchise than any other majority owner in its history. Firestone brought the franchise here. Bryden got the NHL rink for it built. Melnyk brought a brief period of stability that ended several years ago.

 

[thinkwild]

I recall something about 7 potential buyers for the team. But Melnyk flashed his billions and won it. Since then he has run up a hundred million in debt while accumulating over a quarter billion dollars in capital gains. And then he has cried poor, run the team on a shoestring, claimed ottawa fans should be used to being a development feeder team for the rest of the league, demanded a casino in the same location he claimed wasnt good enough for an arena, and forced Bettman to quash his drunken rants.

Come on Euge, you are now the problem holding the team back. If you arent going to spend some of that profit on the team, then cash out your hundreds of millions in profits and sell to someone who will. Dont be a cheapskate plutocrat

 

[coladin]

Appreciate the reply and totally get the passion and anger. Many of us feel the same and want this team to thrive.

As for my comment; it was harsh and we do owe him a debt of gratitude for saving the team and yes, he got a raw shake from city council on at least 2 occasions. I was angry at that time too.

That being said,it is clear that the hockey dream in Kanata is dying. Mid week games are bringing in 14k now. More importantly though is that Melnyk does not have the cash flow to run this team and effect the changes needed for it to thrive. At least I don’t think so. Due to possible cash flow issues a horrible culture has developed in the organization. The team has operating profit but losses money due to debt financing.

A new owner with deep pockets that can bring the team downtown is the only way forward IMHO. I am thankful for Melnyks past actions to save the team, understanding that he has gotten a bad shake from the city in the past but it appears he is running this team to the ground now and for that to me he is the problem now.

A new owner with deep pockets to put up with an empty arena, great plan.

Who says he doesn't have the cash flow? Seems to me like acquiring guys like Duchene, and trading and signing contracts for Ryan and Phaneuf, whether right or not, doesn't speak to cash flow issues. he is just pissed that fans won't pay to watch Karlsson play, but expect him to fork 100$m for him? This isn't a full Molson Center and paying Carey Price. Just as dumb as signing Karlsson when fans don't go to games is financing an arena downtown. Why would any owner in his predicament do that?

CTC was empty in its inaugural season, new arena new shiny toy be damned. And it will be the same with Lebreton

 

[starling]

Still can't understand how such a deal could possibly fall through at this point given it's basically free hundreds of Millions for Melnyk, whether he sells the team now or down the road.
All he needs to do is just finalize it and start digging, or cash in right away.

 

[BonkTastic]

Who says he doesn't have the cash flow?

The banks he needs to organise a dedicated campaign and travel to in order to lend money from at predatory rates, probably.

 

[BonkTastic]

I recall something about 7 potential buyers for the team.

#1 on that list was Nelson Peltz (yes, that Nelson Peltz, father of famed Sens draft pick Brad Peltz) as the main one, he had originally partnered with Rod Bryden in Bryden's attempt to buy the team back with Peltz as the major financial backer. In fact, the Peltz/Bryden offer of $175mil ($100mil from Peltz, $75mil from Bryden and the rest of the group) was more than the Melnyk offer ($140ish mil) that ended up being accepted.

Peltz pulled out when PricewaterhouseCooper, the court-appointed monitor of the sale, objected to Bryden being involved in the sale due to Bryden's share of the financing coming from some shady tax scheme. Rumour was that Peltz was in the middle of finding a more reliable face of the buying group and circling the wagons for a 2nd attempt at making an offer for the team when it was awarded to Melnyk, and rumours were that Peltz was none too pleased that he didn't get another opportunity to make a 2nd offer.

This myth that Melnyk "saved" the franchise is a case where the victor gets to write the history books on the subject - there is a lot of truth-stretching going on, and a lot of what happened has been simplified. I don't think there were as many as 7, but I remember about 4 groups that were serious about buying the team - three who promised to keep the team in Ottawa, and the one group who wanted to move the team to Portland. There were multiple parties interested in buying the team and keeping it in Ottawa. Melnyk was just in the right place at the right time, and made the best offer without contingencies.