GDT: SENS in Vancouver, Tuesday night 10:00 pm on TSN

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

Hoffman lately, guys gotta be gettin frustrated. I think he needs to change his sticks curl just a touch, if he's shooting at posts, he's too accurate.

Didn't he hit a lot of posts last year to start the season before they started going in?

 

[playasRus]

Really liked what I saw from Turris yesterday. Very strong on the puck in the 2nd and 3rd period. MIssed the 1st.

 

[Micklebot]

Really liked what I saw from Turris yesterday. Very strong on the puck in the 2nd and 3rd period. MIssed the 1st.

I noticed that too, much improved over the previous games, though oddly there were still complaints about him being weak for some reason

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Why did Claesson get the most time on ice?

Because he played well

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Really liked what I saw from Turris yesterday. Very strong on the puck in the 2nd and 3rd period. MIssed the 1st.

I havent like Turris at all this year. He's been careless with the puck or has tried forcing plays that arent smart. He certainly hasnt been playing to his ability. Brassard and Ryan on the other hand look to have carried over from last seasons playoffs.

 

[vdB]

That team mentality is still there. Don`t see why we can't compete for the cup.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Where does this misconception that the LD spot in Boucher's system is all about big hits come from? Did we see all that many big hits from Methot and Phaneuf at the blue line or in the neutral zone last year?

The system is about the LD preventing the opposing player from gaining the blue line with speed, and creating turnovers. One would have to be pretty dense not to realize there are many different ways to accomplish this.

Yes, we did, and you forgot about the NHL's Hits Leader last year, Mark Borowieki ....... someone would have to be blind not to have seen those hits, as one method of the LD preventing the opposing player from gaining the blue line with speed, and creating turnovers.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Chabot on the Right side vs The System... I really don't know what to think about that.. I understand the system... I just don't get why Chabot is being pushed to the right side unless there is a plan to move Ceci which I doubt... A year or two down the road, do they foresee Chabot on the bottom pair right side behind EK and Ceci? They have Jaros coming on the right side and Chabot coming on the left...To me Chabot can replace anyone on the left side within 2 years. Chabot is learning the D game at the Pro level.. I don't agree that they should force learning to play RD at the same time. IMO it would be much easier for an experienced D to move to the right side than a rookie. Claesson has struggled on the right side... Can Oduya play there? We know Phaneuf can at least to some respectable degree. The whole step up on the left and retrieve from the right rational is overblown and lathered with a good helping of BS imo. Chabot would have to learn the reads and timing to step up , but he could do that easier imo than learning and battling in his own zone on the right side, plus it takes away some prowess at the opposition blueline. How often do we get hemmed in vs .. the left d stands up and in that sequence the right d retrieves the puck with speed and finesse and makes a clean exit?

I am far from an expert but isn't our system about funneling the opposing team to our left side so they get run over by our big guy?

Makes sense to not play Chabot there no?

 

[Micklebot]

I am far from an expert but isn't our system about funneling the opposing team to our left side so they get run over by our big guy?

Makes sense to not play Chabot there no?

The system typically funnels the play to the left, and the left D steps up, while the forward covers. The D doesn't have to throw a huge hit (though that's Boro's go to move) they just need to disrupt the rush, either causing a dump for the RD to collect, an offside as guys go across the blueline while the attacker tries to avoid the pinching D, or just cause everyone to slow or stop at the blue line to prevent an entry with speed.

Claesson doesn't typically throw big hits, but plays the system well as the LD. Methot and Phaneuf certainly didn't try and throw a big hit every rush; just being a body in the way and bumping the guy is typically enough to accomplish the intent.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yes, we did, and you forgot about the NHL's Hits Leader last year, Mark Borowieki ....... someone would have to be blind not to have seen those hits, as one method of the LD preventing the opposing player from gaining the blue line with speed, and creating turnovers.

Boro is known for causing unforced turnovers. Do you really think his hits deter much players? I mean if that logic is used no one would dare come up his side of the ice but for some reason his hit count doesn't take a hit

 

[HavlatMach9]

we've looked good to start the season. I guess for the PP, I guess we wait and have the Sens practice with karlsson, then be hopeful the PP improves from last year

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Claesson was awesome?

My boy comes up big and I miss it. Classic.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

That team mentality is still there. Don`t see why we can't compete for the cup.

Yeah, just need Tavares and we're set tbh

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Sounded like lots of sens fans were at Rogers arena yesterday

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So you want the forwards to always be aware of which Dmen are behind them and funnel the play accordingly? Sorry, that's just asking for problems.

I have no problems with Chabot playing the left side; he can step up and break up plays without throwing thunderous hits. The idea is just to disrupt the flow of the oppositions rush, that's why even missed hits can have a positive effect. But I'm not sold on changing the system to conform to one player. Let him play out of his comfort zone, whether it's by playing him on the right side, or by having him be the guy stepping up to disrupt plays in the NZ, it will make him a better player in the long run.

Players do this naturally anyways. You think guys don't change their game a little bit when they know Erik is on the ice? Or when they know Boro is out there? Or the difference between passing up to Smith for a breakaway compared to sending Hoffman up the ice?

I'm not saying to completely throw out the system....you simply make it somewhat flexible. Allow for the team to funnel to either side, depending on what the situation calls for. This isn't football where you need rigid plays and routes. Hockey is much more freeflowing, and needs a system that can bend to different situations.

 

[mikey]

Actually, it's obvious that players pull up at the blue against Phaneuf and Boro.. Vancouver did several times. It was very obvious -- you'd have to be blind to miss it last game.

Boro is known for causing unforced turnovers. Do you really think his hits deter much players? I mean if that logic is used no one would dare come up his side of the ice but for some reason his hit count doesn't take a hit

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Actually, it's obvious that players pull up at the blue against Phaneuf and Boro.. Vancouver did several times. It was very obvious -- you'd have to be blind to miss it last game.

Right, but they keep going up along his side of the ice right? If he was such a deterring factor the opposition would channel their breakouts to the opposite side

 

[Micklebot]

Right, but they keep going up along his side of the ice right? If he was such a deterring factor the opposition would channel their breakouts to the opposite side

Are they targeting going up his side, or is our system effectively funneling them to that side? It's great if the opposition want's to breakout on the other side, but if we're systemically shutting down those lanes, it's easier said than done.

 

[OgieO]

I'm going to quote my own posted for TNUOC because it doesn't seems he watched the game.. or realise what happened in it.

Chabot played the left side yesterday on some occasion and he did the same freaking things that are asked of left D.. He stepped up, broked play, and even made some hit.

Chabot doesn't need to be a big hitter to play the left side, he need to step up and break play with his stick and if their is a possibility of a good hit, do it.

Also, that would be very very naif to think that the puck is ALWAYS coming from the left side.. What happen if it come from the Right side, are they in a blackhole and they are not doing anything? No. The RD stepped up and it is the LD who retrieve the puck.

Both D side need to be able to step up, retrieve puck and breakout the puck. That's basic hockey.

I believe (could be wrong) that it's less about the "stepping up part" and more the puck retrieval part that is important when looking at the LD vs RD in GB's system. As it pertains to TC anyway. We want EK and TC to have the puck, the RD in this system gets the puck. It's worth trying because if it works we'd potentially have one of our two studs on the ice basically all game. Ceci could be moved for an asset or we ride all three as a position of strength for a year or two while TC eats "baby food" and improves the PP a bit.

 

[Agent Zub]

The system typically funnels the play to the left, and the left D steps up, while the forward covers. The D doesn't have to throw a huge hit (though that's Boro's go to move) they just need to disrupt the rush, either causing a dump for the RD to collect, an offside as guys go across the blueline while the attacker tries to avoid the pinching D, or just cause everyone to slow or stop at the blue line to prevent an entry with speed.

Claesson doesn't typically throw big hits, but plays the system well as the LD. Methot and Phaneuf certainly didn't try and throw a big hit every rush; just being a body in the way and bumping the guy is typically enough to accomplish the intent.

Furthermore I think it would be beneficial for Chabot to be the guy that steps up as it forces him to be aggressive against nhlers.

Not in the sense of hitting but in the sense that he will have to make aggressive plays on the puck knowing that he is covered.

It should do wonders for his timing and confidence.

 

[Micklebot]

Players do this naturally anyways. You think guys don't change their game a little bit when they know Erik is on the ice? Or when they know Boro is out there? Or the difference between passing up to Smith for a breakaway compared to sending Hoffman up the ice?

I'm not saying to completely throw out the system....you simply make it somewhat flexible. Allow for the team to funnel to either side, depending on what the situation calls for. This isn't football where you need rigid plays and routes. Hockey is much more freeflowing, and needs a system that can bend to different situations.

Hockey is about reacting quickly and acting on instinct. Adding a twist like that makes every decision a fraction slower and introduces unneeded opportunities for miss-communication. I'm not sold the upside is worth the downside. I also have zero issues with smaller or less physical players playing the left side in our system. Claesson isn't a bruiser, but does fine in that role. Chabot could play the left side imo, so I'd much rather he do that than change the system.

 

[Agent Zub]

The problem with boro is that he thinks making the hit is the right play every single time. Every single time. The puck is an alien concept to him.

So opposing forwards are coached before each game that when this player is on the ice, and you're trying to gain the zone. He will try and hit you, everytime. So dodge the hit, or chip it to a forward and if he isn't covered there will be an odd man rush.

Now this system is good enough that most of the time there is cover for boro to take himself out of the play. But the problem is that boro has poor understanding of when he is covered or not. He is going for the hit regardless, and most forwards lines 1 to 3 know how to exploit that.

Which is why methot and Phaneuf never really give up those odd man rushes neutral zone in, they have the savvy to know when they are covered.

Chances are if we gave one up it was because boro was on the ice.

I'd also like to note that we do a terrific job of covering for boro.

 

[Micklebot]

I keep seeing people blaming Boro for too many bad pinches leading to odd man rushes, but it's not showing up in the scoring chance data

Player	rel SCA/60	Rel HDCA/60	Rel GA/60	Rel xGA/60
WIDEMAN	-1.55	-1.18	-0.85	-0.27
CECI	1.92	1.57	0.64	0.14
PHANEUF	2.82	1.92	0.91	0.27
KARLSSON	-0.61	-0.32	0.12	0.09
CLAESSON	-3.36	-0.94	-0.64	-0.38
METHOT	0.2	-0.26	-0.19	-0.03
BOROWIECKI	-1.6	-1.22	-0.43	-0.05

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It would be interesting to see some data on actual odd man rushes while players are on the ice.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I am far from an expert but isn't our system about funneling the opposing team to our left side so they get run over by our big guy?

Makes sense to not play Chabot there no?

Exactly!!! This was so obvious last year, and when Boro was knocked out of the playoffs after a couple a games, this component of the "System" took a huge hit, and may have played a bigger factor than the average fan would care to admit.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Boro is known for causing unforced turnovers. Do you really think his hits deter much players? I mean if that logic is used no one would dare come up his side of the ice but for some reason his hit count doesn't take a hit

Yes, opposing players know the guys to avoid, when they're on the ice. Would you come down Boro's side of the ice, without thinking of the numerous hits he's handed out in the past, or treat him like any other D man?