Pre-Game Talk: SENS in the Wild tonight 8:00pm on TSN

[Jorge Garcia]

No I don't think he doesn't care...in fact I suspect he might care more than you'd think, and no I don't think he's become a bad player...at least not "naturally"...but as other's have pointed out, the uncharacteristic mental mistakes and outright lazy plays at times can't, in my opinion, be blamed on the offseason surgery or lack of pre-season training. I've watched Erik every game this year and there's been plenty of times his foot speed and maneuvering looked just fine to me...in fact most of the time it looks fine. Something else is bothering him...but it's all speculation from there.

I have not seen the real Karlsson explosiveness and speed once this year. He gets outskated by very ordinary players and walked on a depressingly regular basis. It's physical, but it's also a failure to adjust his game to his current limitations. I blame that for his many mental errors, that plus frustration that makes him look disengaged much of the time. I hope he'll recover, because he had been the most essential player in the league for several years. This year's EK has been a large negative. That, along with the NHL's worst goaltending, goes a long way toward explaining the Senators' awful performance this year.

 

[Karl Prime]

Also, after dealing Yashin we still had Alfie, Hossa, Bonk, Redden, Havlat, McEachern, Phillips, Fisher etc.

We still made the playoffs for many years after dealing Cashin. Even win the presidents trophy a couple of years after he left.

If Ottawa had that collection of talent, maybe trading Karlsson away would be an easier decision.

 

[Langdon Alger]

If Ottawa had that collection of talent, maybe trading Karlsson away would be an easier decision.

Or maybe we’d have won a cup by now.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Karlsson got married, has a baby on the way, and just went through the toughest surgery of his career. Now his team is playing a grinding, boring style that isn't producing wins. His best friends on the team are gone. Dumbass Doughty was the one who opened his big mouth about being paid, and dragged Erik into the mess (and conviently scuttled off as soon as the heat hit Erik...f***ing coward he is).

Everything that could go wrong for Erik this year has. We have to keep all that in mind before tossing Erik to the curb.

 

[Alex1234]

He was only -1 yesterday despite being on the ice for 3 goals against so thats that...

Just checked the highlights on NHL.com
He's my favourite player after JT91 but.......
He was a pylon for the 3 goals
Not foot related or anything
Just in his bed snoring like were the morning of July 21st
Ugly Dzone coverage

 

[Micklebot]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Have you seen this team? Do you really think we'd be better without one of our only two star players(Stone being the other)?

We are going to be complete trash if we lose EK. Like, Yotes-level trash.

We played substantially better without Karlsson to start the year. The team certainly can play better than it currently is with or without Karlsson. Add whatever assets we get back trading him, and our 1st round pick this year, and yeah, we could be better. However, we'd be significantly better with him if he was playing to the level he's capable of.

This year's Karlsson is similar to 2013-14 Karlsson, only with less offense. take away his hot start offensively, and this tire fire of a season for him and you get a guy pacing at ~40 pts and a minus 62 over an 82 game season. Yeah, +/- is a terrible stat, but it takes some kind of special crappy play to get that deep into the negatives. Not even expansion era Sens saw those kind of numbers.

 

[DrEasy]

Karlsson got married, has a baby on the way, and just went through the toughest surgery of his career. Now his team is playing a grinding, boring style that isn't producing wins. His best friends on the team are gone. Dumbass Doughty was the one who opened his big mouth about being paid, and dragged Erik into the mess (and conviently scuttled off as soon as the heat hit Erik...****ing coward he is).

Everything that could go wrong for Erik this year has. We have to keep all that in mind before tossing Erik to the curb.

Interesting what you put in the list of things that went wrong!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Interesting what you put in the list of things that went wrong!

Doing the adulting thing is hard. He can't be the happy-go-lucky kid anymore. If that ain't wrong, then I don't know what's right.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

He was only -1 yesterday despite being on the ice for 3 goals against so thats that...

Just checked the highlights on NHL.com
He's my favourite player after JT91 but.......
He was a pylon for the 3 goals
Not foot related or anything
Just in his bed snoring like were the morning of July 21st
Ugly Dzone coverage

And his D partner for those three goals against were ....

 

[Alex1234]

And his D partner for those three goals against were ....

Chabot,Chabot,Boro

So what?

 

[BatherSeason]

And his D partner for those three goals against were ....

Brassard gave absolutely no effort to take his man out on the first goal too, but, lets just focus on every mistake Karlsson or Hoffman makes.

 

[Alex1234]

He's our leader
The guys feed off his play
He should be better in the Dzone foot or not

 

[Korpse]

This year's Karlsson is similar to 2013-14 Karlsson, only with less offense. take away his hot start offensively, and this tire fire of a season for him and you get a guy pacing at ~40 pts and a minus 62 over an 82 game season.

No.No.No. This needs to stop. Do not use pace for +/-. More importantly do not remove a portion of the season and then use pace for +/-.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Brassard gave absolutely no effort to take his man out on the first goal too, but, lets just focus on every mistake Karlsson or Hoffman makes.

Brassard and Hoffman are forwards ........ I asked if anyone noticed who was Karlssons' D partner when the three goals were scored.

 

[slamigo]

That 3rd goal against. Ouch. That looked like beer league stuff right there.

 

[pepty]

I don't know why you keep making that comparison, no where am I saying trading Karlsson is in any shape or form a good a idea. In fact, it's a horrible idea. What I am doing, is holding the captain, and the best player on the team, accountable, which I feel is more than fair.

Also Alfredsson busted his ass every single game he played for the Sens, easily the hardest working player in franchise history. Anyone who questioned his commitment or effort at any point was/is a complete idiot.

About Alfie, I agree. But read the comments. A lot of people questioned Alfie and wanted him gone.
He was accused of not trying hard enough and not being a true captain.

 

[Micklebot]

No.No.No. This needs to stop. Do not use pace for +/-. More importantly do not remove a portion of the season and then use pace for +/-.

I can switch to 5v5 goal metrics and shot metrics if you prefer, but the point isn't to pinpoint just how bad he has been, I'm not looking for precision. There are certainly many factors that go into a terrible plus minus and some of them (like being on a bad team with suspect goaltending) are at play here, but you'd have to be blind or willfully ignorant not to see how bad Karlsson has been defensively this year, and he hasn't come close to making up for it with his offense since his first 11 games. That's the point. He isn't helping matters right now, like at all.

He gets walked on a daily basis. He loses his man when covering the crease, he's constantly shooting pucks off guys shin pads creating breaks in the other direction, he's no longer automatically first on the puck, and hasn't got the first step to separate himself and create lanes when he does get it first. He's seemingly lost confidence in his pivots to the point that he's back to turning the wrong way like he did in 13-14. He used to create offense out of nothing, but that isn't really happening anymore.

His poor plus minus is a symptom of his poor play; it's not a perfect reflection of how bad he's been, and he's not the sole reason it's so bad, but he's been a major contributor to it without a doubt. I'm not advocating +/- as means of comparing his play across the league, just using it to illustrate that goals are going in the net at a ridiculous rate right now when he's out there. 2nd worst GA/60 rel among d with 500 mins in the league. 1st in the league in GA/60 among that same group, a full goal per 60 worse than he career worst. He hasn't had a rel GA/60 this bad since his rookie and sophomore season. Next closest is 2013-14 when he was objectively bad defensively. but his rel GA are a good step better that year.

Right now, Karlsson is simply not helping this team. That's the point I'm trying to make. You're right, +/- is terrible, and pacing it out is typically not going to be a fair representation of a players play, but in this case, it's honestly not far from it.

 

[TeamRenzo]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Have you seen this team? Do you really think we'd be better without one of our only two star players(Stone being the other)?

We are going to be complete trash if we lose EK. Like, Yotes-level trash.

I get what you are saying and agree however we are Yotes level trash...they only difference is everyone knew they would have a turd of a season.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

How did this happen to an NHL team

 

[Korpse]

I can switch to 5v5 goal metrics and shot metrics if you prefer, but the point isn't to pinpoint just how bad he has been, I'm not looking for precision. There are certainly many factors that go into a terrible plus minus and some of them (like being on a bad team with suspect goaltending) are at play here, but you'd have to be blind or willfully ignorant not to see how bad Karlsson has been defensively this year, and he hasn't come close to making up for it with his offense since his first 11 games. That's the point. He isn't helping matters right now, like at all.

He gets walked on a daily basis. He loses his man when covering the crease, he's constantly shooting pucks off guys shin pads creating breaks in the other direction, he's no longer automatically first on the puck, and hasn't got the first step to separate himself and create lanes when he does get it first. He's seemingly lost confidence in his pivots to the point that he's back to turning the wrong way like he did in 13-14. He used to create offense out of nothing, but that isn't really happening anymore.

His poor plus minus is a symptom of his poor play; it's not a perfect reflection of how bad he's been, and he's not the sole reason it's so bad, but he's been a major contributor to it without a doubt. I'm not advocating +/- as means of comparing his play across the league, just using it to illustrate that goals are going in the net at a ridiculous rate right now when he's out there. 2nd worst GA/60 rel among d with 500 mins in the league. 1st in the league in GA/60 among that same group, a full goal per 60 worse than he career worst. He hasn't had a rel GA/60 this bad since his rookie and sophomore season. Next closest is 2013-14 when he was objectively bad defensively. but his rel GA are a good step better that year.

Right now, Karlsson is simply not helping this team. That's the point I'm trying to make. You're right, +/- is terrible, and pacing it out is typically not going to be a fair representation of a players play, but in this case, it's honestly not far from it.

No arguments here that he has been playing poorly. I just think using +/- as a pace is incredibly misleading. If you want to say Karlsson has been bad just use his #'s to this point ,he's a -22 in 40 games, thats ugly anyway you spin in it. No need to sensationalize it by removing a portion of his season and then pacing the worst portion. +/- is going to fluctuate throughout the season for any player and especially for a player like Karlsson on a bad team.

 

[Micklebot]

No arguments here that he has been playing poorly. I just think using +/- as a pace is incredibly misleading. If you want to say Karlsson has been bad just use his #'s to this point ,he's a -22 in 40 games, thats ugly anyway you spin in it. No need to sensationalize it by removing a portion of his season and then pacing the worst portion. +/- is going to fluctuate throughout the season for any player and especially for a player like Karlsson on a bad team.

Admittedly it was a lazy way to illustrate how bad he's been, but it got to the same end point about 1 tenth the typing, which is nice when I was doing it from a mobile device.

 

[Alex1234]

How did this happen to an NHL team

Burrows
Dumont
Boro
EK
All lined up

I mean ...


You cant go lower then that

That play was set up by GB himself
The National anthem formation

His humour is at another level

You cannot mastermind something like that without being Seinfeld’s cousin I mean...

I bet hes laughing in his basement right now knowing it took us a good 14 hours to uncover his plot

Sacré Guy

 

[Engineer]

How did this happen to an NHL team

Every single player plays that wrong. A two player defense split shouldn't be possible at the NHL level

I also love Dumont there: "Oh, look he got passed me, better do a weak hold and then not skate, oh they scored, I'll swing my stick like I'm mad, actually, nah I'll half ass that too"

 

[Viletho]

No arguments here that he has been playing poorly. I just think using +/- as a pace is incredibly misleading. If you want to say Karlsson has been bad just use his #'s to this point ,he's a -22 in 40 games, thats ugly anyway you spin in it. No need to sensationalize it by removing a portion of his season and then pacing the worst portion. +/- is going to fluctuate throughout the season for any player and especially for a player like Karlsson on a bad team.

Seeing all those stats by Mickle, i'm starting to wonder who is our best dman defensively this year.

Maybe a poll would be ideal.

 

[aragorn]

5 Reasons the Sens Suck this yr:

1. Goaltending - this tandem has gone from one of the best in the NHL last yr to one of the worse this yr. No team is going anywhere without good goaltending in this league & sadly there doesn't seem to be any excuse for it other than incompetence. Can they bounce back next yr is the big question?

2. Best Players - we often hear it said on broadcasts that your best players have to be your best players & on many nights this season our best players have been our worse players or invisible with the exception of Mark Stone & maybe Dzingel. This of course includes the goalies & the captain.

3. Injuries - have pretty much retired MacArthur & Wideman is out for the yr. Injuries have hampered several key players all yr in Ryan, Karlsson, Smith, Boro maybe Brassard. Now it's Stone, Pageau, Thompson & Oduya. Hard to overcome so many injuries particularly to key players.

4. Coaching - GB has turned out to be a huge disappointment, while the reasons above may have more to do with it, his decisions at times seem desperate & the very definition of insanity. He continues to try the same tactics over & over again as well as the same personnel hoping for a different result but continues to get the same result, a losing effort. I don't know if he will get fired but he has been increasingly frustrating to watch & listen to & I wish they would get rid of all the players he has brought in. They have done nothing but take up valuable ice time from our younger players who actually have a future here.

5. Management - from ownership on down this has been a season to forget. The ownership of this franchise has always been somewhat of an embarrassment but this yr reached an all time low by announcing on National television that if the fans of this city don't support this team he will move it before he sells it. He can thank himself for the low attendance this yr, he's as hated as the Glieberman's now, maybe more.

The GM of this team was so keen to sign what he thought was an elite player & not re-sign a fan favourite but unfortunately for him the deal blew up in his face. It may yet be the better move long term but so far this team has been worse since the Turris trade & not better. The amount of veterans in this organization specifically in the AHL rather than giving the younger players more ice time is baffling. To bring in players from outside the league who are career minor leaguers at best to take spots that maybe our prospects could have grown into was & is a dumb move. This management team either lacks the ability to properly analyse a player's development or are not patient enough for them to improve. Hopefully, they will have learned from this blunder & not re-sign a single UFA in this organization.

Personally, I would like to see a new owner, a new GM & a new coach for next season but I doubt we will see any changes in those areas. I also have zero confidence in any deals this management group will make or whether there will be many changes & we could end up with pretty much the same team or same kind of team for next season. I see the same definition of insanity for next season as we got from this season with the same management team, the same players & the same attendance issues since the Phoenix system won't be much better either. We could be in this very same place at this time next yr. I wish I could be more optimistic.