GDT: Sens @ Canes Sept. 27, The Most Important Game Of The Year Edition

[maclean]

what if we tried renaming Michalek McCullough and made him from the valley

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

what if we tried renaming Michalek McCullough and made him from the valley

No, no, that's not how it works. His name would have to be Mil Michaleksson and he'd be from Malmo. Then he'd be a legend here.

 

[God Says No]

I liked Condra, and his cap hit is a much better fit for the bottom 6, so no argument here, but Condra in the top 6 was a bit like Michalek with in the bottom 6; no production. They have different strengths and weaknesses.

<snip>

I'd say he's above average defensively, but certainly not a specialist in that regard. I think part of what you are seeing (with regards to him being overatted defensively) is defending against some people calling him poor defensively. He won't hurt you in that regard. I agree that when he's not producing offensively, he's just sortof there, but to be honest, that describes a lot of NHL players.

Cool. Thanks for the numbers. I agree, his biggest strength is that of the ability to step into the top 6 role. Although his production in top 6 varies greatly who he plays with. So he's not this magical player who can step in and play with anyone in top 6. But the issue is that he's such a ghost, especially in the bottom six, for most of the year. I understand the defensive game is inflated by some posters as a counter argument because they have nothing else to rely on.

To tell you the truth, I'm currently OK with Michalek in the lineup. But I don't want him there for long. Once any of the young guys prove that they are capable of playing top 6 or bottom 6 (Prince looks most likely right now), he should be on the top of the list to be replaced.

 

[Blarginator]

Even though Michalek went on to put up PPG numbers on the top line, Condra and Michalek both finished with 7 even strength goals. Go figure.

So Powerplay goals don't count anymore? Considering the fact that our Powerplay struggled all year, it goes to show that Michalek is actually a useful player on the PP.

What I find funny is that some call Michalek a scrub but he actually had a comparable season to MacArthur point-wise. I don't see anyone calling MacArthur a scrub. Michalek may be streaky but last year he was there for the team when we needed him the most.

The way I see it Michalek's positives are:

-Can fill in a top 6 role when needed
-Versatile / can play on all 4 lines
-Solid defensively
-Can play tough minutes
-He is hard to play against along the boards
-Good on the PP
-Good veteran presence
-Leadership / well liked by other players in the locker room.

Negatives:
-He has lost a step
-Injury prone
-His offence is streaky
-May be slightly overpaid

I'm not against an upgrade but he's still a useful player to have around.

 

[Boud]

What I find funny is that some call Michalek a scrub but he actually had a comparable season to MacArthur point-wise. I don't see anyone calling MacArthur a scrub. Michalek may be streaky but last year he was there for the team when we needed him the most.

Wait in 3 years when he'll be older and will regress a little bit and Lindberg, Paul and more young guys will be looking for a spot on the roster. MacCarthur is also a pretty streaky guy and that's been since his days in Buffalo. He plays a different style of game than Michalek and his streaks go mostly unnoticed but Mac started the year strong and then went ghost until he came back from his injury and that has been the case for the bigger part of his career. I don't think comparing Michalek and Mac is right but I wouldn't be surprised to see MacArthur in a couple years become the new whipping boy because he'll be making 4.6M and some kid will be able to do the same job for half the price...

That's the reality today..

 

[aragorn]

IMO Michalek is the kind of player who needs a playmaker in order for him to be most effective offensively, he can't really create plays for himself. If you put him in the top 6 but on a line with no playmaker than he isn't going to produce as much, Zibanejad & Ryan I don't think are really considered playmakers. Chiasson isn't a playmaker & is more like Michalek so putting them together would be more for defensive purposes. If you put him in the bottom six most likely there won't be a setup guy in the bottom six either so he won't produce offensively there either but is a very good defensive player. When we saw Michalek play with Turris & Stone two guys who are both good playmakers Michalek produced. When he was with Spezza the playmaker, he also produced offensively.

This yr it will depend on where DC needs Michalek's style of play & experience. Having Prince on this team, another playmaker, could actually help out Michalek in the bottom six if Lazar isn't able to get his offensive game going. Prince - Pageau - Michalek could be another offensive line or Prince - Lazar - Michalek if they want a little more bulk at centre. Should be an interesting yr for Michalek.

 

[Blarginator]

Wait in 3 years when he'll be older and will regress a little bit and Lindberg, Paul and more young guys will be looking for a spot on the roster. MacCarthur is also a pretty streaky guy and that's been since his days in Buffalo. He plays a different style of game than Michalek and his streaks go mostly unnoticed but Mac started the year strong and then went ghost until he came back from his injury and that has been the case for the bigger part of his career. I don't think comparing Michalek and Mac is right but I wouldn't be surprised to see MacArthur in a couple years become the new whipping boy because he'll be making 4.6M and some kid will be able to do the same job for half the price...

That's the reality today..

I didn't mean to compare their style of play. I know they play the way differently, I was just trying to show the similarity in the impact they had on the scoresheet. I also remember when he went MIA before his injury. I like CMac and hopefully he doesn't have to endure the same **** Michalek has to.

 

[BigBush*]

Wait in 3 years when he'll be older and will regress a little bit and Lindberg, Paul and more young guys will be looking for a spot on the roster. MacCarthur is also a pretty streaky guy and that's been since his days in Buffalo. He plays a different style of game than Michalek and his streaks go mostly unnoticed but Mac started the year strong and then went ghost until he came back from his injury and that has been the case for the bigger part of his career. I don't think comparing Michalek and Mac is right but I wouldn't be surprised to see MacArthur in a couple years become the new whipping boy because he'll be making 4.6M and some kid will be able to do the same job for half the price...

That's the reality today..

It is what it is man. If MacArthurs play drops off by the end of his contract and he gets pushed out of the top 6 and stops producing in the bottom 6 then yes he'll be criticized.

It sucks making millions of dollars and being in the spot light but it is what it is. Like you said that's the reality today

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Condra was really great last year (for his role). But............he was also playing for his next contract. It's a pretty big risk when someone has basically a career season on the last year of a contract. Good chance he won't duplicate that performance.

 

[Sens Rule]

IMO Michalek is the kind of player who needs a playmaker in order for him to be most effective offensively, he can't really create plays for himself. If you put him in the top 6 but on a line with no playmaker than he isn't going to produce as much, Zibanejad & Ryan I don't think are really considered playmakers. Chiasson isn't a playmaker & is more like Michalek so putting them together would be more for defensive purposes. If you put him in the bottom six most likely there won't be a setup guy in the bottom six either so he won't produce offensively there either but is a very good defensive player. When we saw Michalek play with Turris & Stone two guys who are both good playmakers Michalek produced. When he was with Spezza the playmaker, he also produced offensively.

This yr it will depend on where DC needs Michalek's style of play & experience. Having Prince on this team, another playmaker, could actually help out Michalek in the bottom six if Lazar isn't able to get his offensive game going. Prince - Pageau - Michalek could be another offensive line or Prince - Lazar - Michalek if they want a little more bulk at centre. Should be an interesting yr for Michalek.

Yeah I was considering Prince Pageau Michalek too. Prince and Pageau are good passers.

Partly I like it because it makes Lazar the 4C. I like Lazar as RWer and think he is going to score a lot more in that roll this year then last. But also Michalek won't score much with Smith on a 4th line and his offence would be wasted. Lazar is just better at everything then Smith... And to me 4C is still a prime key position. It makes an entire line work. Chiasson has actually looked much better to me this preseason then he has since the first 25 games last year. Moving his feet, being somewhat dynamic. The other wing I kinda would like a second Prince! Lol. But hopefully Puempel can do the job. Neil has not overly impressed me this preseason. Usually in a preseason role he shows more offfence and skills and dynamism. He was or maybe still is, not without skills. Vs. weaker competition in preseason he usually looks a bit better, but he is behind the play a lot and lots of efforts die on his stick. I would have him at 13. He is Neil and in the regular season can play 7/8 minutes effectively when needed.

Puempel Lazar Chiasson could be a pretty good line. But you have 2 shooters and also Lazar could benefit from a playmaking winger... But then your roster is your roster and I think you play them and you have your 12 most skilled, most talented, most dynamic and highest scoring 12 forwards in roles they are in the best way suited to.

In time, if Prince is actually ready and a good top 9 player at both ends of the ice... Hoffman could go with Pageau Michalek. As long as Hoffman gets lots of icetime... Him on a 3rd line just makes 3 full lines dangerous offensive threats. Speed would kill with Hoffman-Pageau Michalek/Lazar as a third line group. You would need to really figure out how to contain them as an opposing team. And if a team has ti gameplan in a big way your 3rd line... You are in a good place!

To me the forwards are really good. Our best asset as a team besides Karlsson. In any combo the forwards are good, top 10 or more in the league good. It is the 2nd and 3rd pairing D that this team will have their fortunes lie on. They could be below average, average... Or if we are lucky and fate is in our favour slightly above average. A lot would need to go right there just to be average. But if Cowen found his game with Wideman... Who is a Priessing/Corvo type of bottom D offensively and passable on defence. Wiercioch and Ceci stay solid and both have really good years... We are above average or at least average. The bottom 4 D could also crumble and not even find a player to adequately replace Gryba. Be even worse the last year. Gryba was no world beater but he was at least solid and played every game. We might miss Gryba way more then Condra. Or we might miss neither at all.

I am excited for the year for sure!

 

[Sens Rule]

Condra was really great last year (for his role). But............he was also playing for his next contract. It's a pretty big risk when someone has basically a career season on the last year of a contract. Good chance he won't duplicate that performance.

I kinda think for most players contracts are overrated. Some guys might play for them like say Semin. I think say Condra and Pageau who were up on contracts are just pretty darn good and would play the same way regardless.

I think Condra is a pretty good hockey player. But suited for a 4th line not a 3rd due to lack of offence. We needed to replace him for more offence on the third line. Tampa is stacked at forward... But we saw how weak their 4th line was in the playoffs, they could not play 4 lines, they went to 10-11 forwards. Condra eats quality minutes and can kill ot on their 4th line. He is good enough to help a weak group be an effective 4th line. Can really help Tampa go 4 lines deep come playoffs. For us he was a 3rd liner and we aren't topping off a Cup quality team now. We are building a playoff quality team and our third line is better overall with Prince/Michalek then Condra because they can score too. Plus Pageau is blossoming as a centre. He should have wingers to score for him. Condra on the 4th here... Too many bodies to figure out. In a year or two yes. Now... He is gonna look good in his role in Tampa.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't understand people who say that Michalek was able to put up almost PPG with Stone and Turris in a bad way. Put Chiasson there per example and he doesn't even get half the points. When a player is able to play with guys like Stone and Turris it's absolutely a good thing. Not any player is able to come up in a top 6 role and produce like that, and complete talented guys like Turris and Stone, and not only that but also handling the task of playing against the other teams top line all night is a tough task not only offensively but defensively.

No **** that Michalek can't produce with lesser players it's normal. Hoffman was on the bottom 6 and recorded 4 points in 22 games and all I hear is about his 27 goals. How come nobody talks about Hoffman being only good with Ryan and Zibby but ai always hear about Michalek not being productive in a bottom 6 role. (And he's still way above average defensively)

This Michalek thing is so stupid, honestly the guy comes up and plays PPG to help us make the playoffs and some people still take it negatively which is beyond ridiculous. If it would've been a kid like Prince or Puempel doing that he would've been the second coming of jesus christ but it's Michalek so he didn't do anything right - no, not at all it was Stone and Turris doing all the work for him and Michalek was sitting behind Hammond eating donuts.

So much this... But hey, it isn't paranoia... (french : Psychose caractérisée par la présence d'idées délirantes systématisées et permanentes)

I mean Michalek scored 39 pts in 82 games 2 seasons ago and had a 42 pts pace last season. He finished 133th in forward scoring in 2013-14 and 158th last season (would have been better if he played 82 games, and probably over 50 pts if he played all season in the top-6)... If you divide that by 30 teams, it means the 4-5th best scoring forward on the average NHL team... Let that sink in for a minute...

BUT HEY OTTAWA IS SO FREAKING SPECIAL THAT HERE IT SHOULD BE 4TH LINE NUMBERS.

Lmao somebody didn't evolve with NHL scoring or is just stuck in lala land.

What I dislike the most about naysayers is when it doesn't fit their argument, it will be the eye test, but when it fits their argument, then stats are what it takes. Bias is so obvious that it becomes r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s. Like if we weren't wise enough to see their biased agendas.

So don't give me crap about not leaving somebody else's opinion alone... It's not an opinion, it's erroneous propaganda.

Lol, you sound a little crazy here man. A good 20 games on the teams/leagues hottest line doesn't erase his play for the last 2 years.

A lot of people feel Michalek isn't a big part of the team and will be passed in the depth charts as soon as this year

If he scores 30 goals fans will love him but chances are he scores around 10 again

A lot of people have been saying that crap for YEARS... Of course it will eventually happen, but Michalek has been among the scoring leaders for years... He's actually the active player on the team with the most goals with the Sens (109), Chris Neil is 2nd with 106. Should be behind only Karlsson for points.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/OTT/leaders_career.html

michalek is streaky and inconsistent, and when we make the playoffs he doesn't do anything. Rely on him for some penalty killing and checking, that's about it. He won't score 30 goals again.

Well, only 15 NHL players scored 30 goals or more last year...

Do people realize that?

 

[topshelf15]

I kinda think for most players contracts are overrated. Some guys might play for them like say Semin. I think say Condra and Pageau who were up on contracts are just pretty darn good and would play the same way regardless.

I think Condra is a pretty good hockey player. But suited for a 4th line not a 3rd due to lack of offence. We needed to replace him for more offence on the third line. Tampa is stacked at forward... But we saw how weak their 4th line was in the playoffs, they could not play 4 lines, they went to 10-11 forwards. Condra eats quality minutes and can kill ot on their 4th line. He is good enough to help a weak group be an effective 4th line. Can really help Tampa go 4 lines deep come playoffs. For us he was a 3rd liner and we aren't topping off a Cup quality team now. We are building a playoff quality team and our third line is better overall with Prince/Michalek then Condra because they can score too. Plus Pageau is blossoming as a centre. He should have wingers to score for him. Condra on the 4th here... Too many bodies to figure out. In a year or two yes. Now... He is gonna look good in his role in Tampa.

Yep so much this ,Condra was a great role player ,but it was time for him to move on

 

[Xspyrit]

I could see that, IMO Prince could become a better playmaker than Hoffman which would be more suited for playing with Zib and Ryan, while Hoffman playing with two of our best defensive guys in Pageau and Lazar would allow him to take a lot of risks offensively.

Actually it's a great idea... (of course if Prince is for real)

MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Prince-Zibanejad-Ryan
Hoffman-Pageau-Lazar
Michalek-Smith-Chiasson
Neil

No high end superstars but that forward group is skilled top to bottom. That depth is amazing

Or it could be :

Prince-Turris-Stone
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
MacArthur-Pageau-Michalek
Chiasson-Smith-Lazar
Neil

If Prince is good enough, that top-9 would hurt a lot of teams.

There is zero chance Lazar starts in Bingo he wore a letter last night and there were multiple regulars playing last night. Not sure why anyone thinks this is happening but its not.
McCormick over him too yikes.

Yeah you are probably right, I got caught up in that speculation... it's because of contracts situation but Puempel is injured and McCormick wouldn't play over Lazar anyway, you're right.

I agree with you on Chiasson, although he does look new & improved from last season & is working hard to get into the lineup so far this preseason I also think he is on a short leash in Ottawa with this head coach, not to mention some fans. Should be interesting to see how this plays out because I also think it has come down to Chiasson vs Prince for that last forward spot. IMO Lazar has been fairly quiet throughout this camp, we haven't heard very much from him at all & I don't believe he has scored a goal yet. He's another guy where expectations should be higher but he is flying under the radar so far this preseason, Cowen only wishes he were this lucky.

I think Chiasson and Prince will both be on the team. The team will carry at least 13 forwards... But wouldn't be surprised if Chiasson get eventually traded yeah.

EDIT: Not only does Michalek have the same amount of Shot/game than Stone, but he also played 130 minutes of PK time in 66 games (2 Minutes per games) while Stone has played 111 minutes of PK in 80 Games (1,4 minutes per game). So with less ES TOI/game, Michalek was still able to post as many shots/games as Stone... Kinda funny for a guy who has ''zero shots'' isn't it?[/B

Yep, that argument goes out of the window... And that's all the Michalek naysayers have against him : not much substance.

If you're going to criticize him, criticize him fairly. Don't need to hyperbole players to crap to prove a point.

Michalek is not a flashy stickhandler... so what? As long as he gets the job done I won't mind. Oh and another valid critic : he is streaky offensively. OK but all non-PPG players are... I'm not expecting a just above average NHL salary (~3.0) player to be super consistent.

I'm not sure getting rid of every mediocre player on an NHL team is possible though.

Yes it is... Look at NHL all-star teams.

Michalek and Condra might play some of the same roles, and there are some that Condra does better, but Michalek does things Condra can't.

Condra couldn't come into the top 6 last season and put up near PPG numbers when MacArthur went down.

I think a good activity is for some people to imagine that Michalek is making 2.99 million per rather than 4M per and wonder if they'd still fixate so much on him. It is just so strange how much a slightly overpaid but good middle 6 player who played a big part in Ottawa's big run last season gets hated on. He's not bad enough to justify the amount of constant discussion about him, so it has to be him being slightly overpaid based on past performance that fuels people disliking him so much.

It's ugly the impact that money has... You're right, if Michalek was paid 3.0 instead, I'm sure people would be praising him lol... He's above average NHL player so I think it's normal he gets paid just above the average NHL salary, no?

cue the "he's not an above average NHL player", ok I guess stats/numbers are not valid in that particular case?

 

[God Says No]

Yep, that argument goes out of the window... And that's all the Michalek naysayers have against him : not much substance.

If you're going to criticize him, criticize him fairly. Don't need to hyperbole players to crap to prove a point.

Michalek is not a flashy stickhandler... so what? As long as he gets the job done I won't mind. Oh and another valid critic : he is streaky offensively. OK but all non-PPG players are... I'm not expecting a just above average NHL salary (~3.0) player to be super consistent.

Actually he makes 4M.

If you read any of my posts you would have realized that the argument is that he doesn't do anything unless he scores. His defensive game is wildly overrated as a counter argument by posters like yourself. He's not a passer, he's not a possession player, he's not a puck carrier, he's not a defensive stalwart. No bias, just how it is. If he comes this year and actually contributes (again doesn't have to be points only), I'll be the first one to give him props. All that I ask, is that if you're not scoring, do something that helps the team.

 

[Xspyrit]

What I find funny is that some call Michalek a scrub but he actually had a comparable season to MacArthur point-wise. I don't see anyone calling MacArthur a scrub. Michalek may be streaky but last year he was there for the team when we needed him the most.

Be patient... it won't be that long, maybe as soon as next year (2016-17)

Oh and in your positives you forgot :

- impeccable work ethic

I didn't mean to compare their style of play. I know they play the way differently, I was just trying to show the similarity in the impact they had on the scoresheet. I also remember when he went MIA before his injury. I like CMac and hopefully he doesn't have to endure the same **** Michalek has to.

I wouldn't bank on people changing... so prepare for that, it will happen.

It is what it is man. If MacArthurs play drops off by the end of his contract and he gets pushed out of the top 6 and stops producing in the bottom 6 then yes he'll be criticized.

It sucks making millions of dollars and being in the spot light but it is what it is. Like you said that's the reality today

What people don't understand though is that the contracts are designed to represent a complete picture of the player work. Most players will be underpaid some years and overpaid later on. But in the end, it balances out. Sometimes it busts (like with Richards, Lecavalier, Gomez, etc.) but also sometimes you get some pretty good bargains (Turris, Karlsson...)

Michalek has been making between 4.0 and 4.33 all his time in Ottawa and produced like a top-6 forward (23 goals, 23 assists, 46 points per 82 games played). In today's NHL era yes it is 2nd line numbers.

We also got Michalek for Heatley, who fell off the map very quikcly and was costing a lot more money while being a lot less useful (except 1 season maybe).

Conclusion is Michalek in Ottawa has been a super positive story and people talk about it as negative. That's what is really SAD.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Alright, this game hasn't been discussed for a while now. Head over to the thread vs the Jets if you'd like to discuss that game.