GDT: Senators at Penguins - 7 p.m. ET; ROOT, RDS2, TSN5 - Will Pageau Score Edition

[Sens Rule]

It's not really fair for people to talk about 'bad puck luck' and 'bad calls'. We had amazing luck most of the game, and got some very soft calls against Pitt as well.

We gave up 2 breakaways because of two terrible cross-ice passes that both resulted in goals.

What's that? We lost by 2 goals??

I wonder what the difference in the game was!

It really was a crazy game we could have won. We did get outplayed. Our goalie was bad. But we were a Hoffman post away from a 6-6 tie in the later part of the third. It really was just a crazy game. Nonsense penalty shot. That sick play by EK to save a gial when Crosby almost got Andy to go behind the net should have never had a whistle and likely should have been a Pens goal. There should not have been a whistle to stop play.

Probably 4 or 5 goals in the game should have got stopped by goalies on either team. Both teams got phantom PPs. Lazar injury likely shoulda been a 5 minute Ottawa PP.

I don't know if we should have won. And we did get outplayed over the whole game. But we also made more sick offensive plays for goals then we normally would in 3 or 4 games. Our PP was astounding.

This was just a crazy freaking game. Exciting! With a zillion great moves by both teams.

Adding to this Boro... trashed in this thread supposedly set a record for most hits in a game since they were recorded.

Just a weird crazy game. Coulda been a "normal" 4-3 win for either team but it was 8-5.

 

[Sensinitis]

Methot was out tonight and so was Claesson. Both defenders who would have definitely eaten a large chunk of Boro's time. So I really don't understand the complaints on our depth on defense. Our number 3 was injured and bottom 6. Also, Boucher screwed up for not playing Wideman more so it was just injuries and mismanagement more than a problem of lack of depth.

Lol, God help us if Claesson was playing anything more than 10 mins today.

Speed comparison:

Crosby>> Turris
Malkin >> Brassard
Hornqvist > Stone
Hoffman >= Kessel
Hagelin = Dzingel
Bonino >>> Ryan or whoever
Sheary = Pageau
Cullen > Smith
Rust = Pyatt

whoever else >>> Neil and Kelly

Look at their superior speed and size down the middle. When you have that, being able to move the puck up ice with more control and dominance is much more easier.

In what world is Bonino >>> anyone... In the whole league... He's a very average skater. It's probably his biggest knock actually. Lazar >>> Bonino.

IMO, they just PLAY faster. Lots of quick players sure, but lots of other players who just play fast.

We haven't tried Varone in the NHL yet. Maybe he would be ok? Likely next call up. McCormick and Robinson are just filler. They aren't ever gonna be NHLers.

Varone played 3 games to start the year. I wouldn't mind him back.

 

[krapsik]

But I understand Boucher not pulling him.

Thing i am not understand is why Andy dont pulled himself out of this game.
Literaly after Kessel goal he should be go and tell coach that i am suck today.
I am absoluttely shure Bucher asks him in second intermission, are you ready to go ? And him starting 3-rd means the answer was "Yea, i am ready". And then Malkin goal happend.

 

[God Says No]

Adding to this Boro... trashed in this thread supposedly set a record for most hits in a game since they were recorded.

That's not a surprise since he was chasing the puck so much. Perfect game for Boro to rack up the hits. Never have the puck and just keep hitting.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Too bad the Pens pulled Fleury, would have had a chance at coming out with a point or even winning.

The Pens walked all over the Sens imo.

Got extreme deja vu of the 2013 playoff series between the two teams.

Most of the team deserves blame for this loss.

Nope. Not even close.

Most of the forwards actually had pretty good games outside of the 4th line, and the game could have gone either way had we gotten better goaltending. Yeah, the dmen kinda sucked, but that was first and foremost a depth issue with injuries to Methot and Claesson. Boro was badly exposed because of it, and as mentioned, Andy was off, so almost every bad play caused a goal against.

I think you need to breathe in and out a bit, this was not as bad as you think.

 

[BondraTime]

That's not a surprise since he was chasing the puck so much. Perfect game for Boro to rack up the hits. Never have the puck and just keep hitting.

Yup, funny to read the "Boro sets hits record" thread to see all the fans of other teams trashing how terrible he is and how they love seeing him on the ice.

 

[Sens Rule]

That is exactly the reasoning behind Boucher's decision. He said so himself.

I didn't hear that.

Even so. Who cares? Anderson and Karlsson have been this team for a half dozen years. I don't even give two craps if Andy got a long leash because his wife has cancer. Whatever. If it matters he gets that respect.

 

[RuthlessLieutenant]

Any word on Lazar?

 

[BondraTime]

Any word on Lazar?

Upper body injury and out indefinitely

 

[Sens Rule]

That Cullen shorthanded goal frustrated the living **** out of me.

How do you let a ****ing 40 year old get that much distance on a breakaway?

I don't know why, but that just made me angry for the rest of the game and hindered my enjoyment of it.

It was tough up 4-2 after that great first by the Pens.

To me it signalled Andy was just not really "on". But credit to Cullen it was a sick steal and sick move.

Cullen isn't just a 40 year old. He is pretty much the player we had here the short time Cullen was here. I wouldn't have minded keeping him all that time. He was an excellent middle six forward then and almost a decade later. And the Pens are so good that a good middle six centre and top faceoff guy is their 4th line centre!

I got mad respeck for Mr. Cullen. Too bad we didn't sign him any time since he was here the first time. He is just a darn good hockey player and still is. And he isn't slow at all... even at 40. So he finished the breakaway. Karlsson almost caught him, but he had too great of a lead.

I gotta feel good for Cullen though. Beating out Karlsson on a breakaway at 40 and scoring... even with a lead to start... he had got to be recording that goal and showing everyone that goal for the rest of his life!

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Most of the team deserves blame for this loss.

No they don't, if we had average goaltending we would have, at worst, went to OT.

Lol, God help us if Claesson was playing anything more than 10 mins today.

Way more reliable than Boro that's for sure and he has the wheels too.

 

[God Says No]

Upper body injury and out indefinitely

Translation: concussion

Seriously. What is with this team and concussions?

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I didn't hear that.

Even so. Who cares? Anderson and Karlsson have been this team for a half dozen years. I don't even give two craps if Andy got a long leash because his wife has cancer. Whatever. If it matters he gets that respect.

It's not about long or short leashes, it's about making the right in-game decisions. It doesn't take anything away from what Andy has done.

 

[Sens Rule]

Not just this game but an overall comment on our D

By all rights to compete with the top teams, Ceci would be playing limited minutes in our bottom pair. Ceci hasn't earned the right to be playing 2nd pairing minutes yet so he should be in the bottom set until he improves. The Sens need someone better to play with Phaneuf and someone else to play with Ceci.

Let's face it Boro and Wideman are only here because of the dollars.

I agree I would like to limit Ceci's minutes considering his play. But seriously with 30 teams there is a huge limitations to finding top 6 D. There are not exactly a ton of players anywhere not in the NHL that are better then Boro/Wideman/Ceci.

If anything the Senators were smart to sign somewhat competent 5/6 D like Wideman and Boro to approx $1 million deals. The Sens aren't cheaping out. There are just not a lot of NHL caliber D's. We have two competent cheap bottom D's with extra skills. Boro is a top flite fighter and leading the NHL in hits and Wideman is a skilled offensive player with a good shot, high offensive IQ and a secondary PP option.

I kinda think lots of Sens fans think many other teams have amazing bottom D defencemen. They mostly don't. And almost anyone with a quality D beyond their top 5 is paying them a decent salary or have a mediocre top 4.

 

[Sens Rule]

I actually really like Wideman, I think it's terrible he only get 12 minutes and Boro got as much as he did. Widman has been really good and handled himself well tonight so I really dont get why Boro got the extra minutes and not Wideman.

Wideman is a good enough bottom pair guy, he isn't bad whatsoever.

I think Wideman is pretty skilled and pretty decent. I also think with Methot out Wideman gets more icetime versus almost any other team then Pittsburgh. Facing Malkin or Crosby Boucher wanted Boro over Wideman. Argue if that was a good idea if you want. In a diff matchup likely Boucher gives 3 minutes Wideman's way and reduces Boro from 21-18 minutes.

I think Boucher likes both Boro and Wideman fine and trusts both. Versus the biggest strongest best 2 forwards in the league he wanted Boro to face them more often with Methot out.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Methot was out tonight and so was Claesson. Both defenders who would have definitely eaten a large chunk of Boro's time. So I really don't understand the complaints on our depth on defense. Our number 3 was injured and bottom 6. Also, Boucher screwed up for not playing Wideman more so it was just injuries and mismanagement more than a problem of lack of depth.

The problem with playing Wideman is he is a RD. Especially against a super fast team like Pittsburgh who had the last change, two RDs on the ice outside of limited minutes could be a recipe for disaster.

Combine that with being stuck playing Boro in what is probably his career high in minutes by a large margin due to the only other regular NHL defender in Phaneuf playing 4+ minute of powerplay time, it makes sense that Wideman was kept off the ice. Well, maybe it was the wrong choice, but I can see the rationale in going with a Boro-Ceci pairing when possible over a Boro-Wideman pairing which may have been brutalized in big minutes/dzone faceoffs.

Boro wasn't good. But it isn't really a hot take that he stunk while having to play as a top 4 defender against the Penguins.

The only fair solution may have been to play Englund more, but considering I don't watch the AHL, I don't feel its fair I even comment on that. When it comes to generalizing the situation, it is not at all surprising that a coach wouldn't trust giving his 9th defender big minutes off the gate in his second NHl game.

I have a hard time taking this game as an indication of anything because it was so wacky. The team played hard despite facing some adversity, so there's positives there. It was a fun 1 hour of hockey, and we're going to lose games sometime so we might as well lose to one of the best teams in the East and not the Maple Leafs or something. I'll leave it at that.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think Wideman is pretty skilled and pretty decent. I also think with Methot out Wideman gets more icetime versus almost any other team then Pittsburgh. Facing Malkin or Crosby Boucher wanted Boro over Wideman. Argue if that was a good idea if you want. In a diff matchup likely Boucher gives 3 minutes Wideman's way and reduces Boro from 21-18 minutes.

I think Boucher likes both Boro and Wideman fine and trusts both. Versus the biggest strongest best 2 forwards in the league he wanted Boro to face them more often with Methot out.

I think a big part of it was Phaneuf playing nearly 9 minutes of special teams. That leaves almost 30 minutes of ES time with Englund or Boro on the ice. It was probably a case where if Boucher was going to be stuck relying on Boro or Englund playing a combined 30 minutes, he'd rather play them most of the time with a guy who he sees as a stronger defender Ceci rather than Wideman.

Wideman's minutes also were about normal for him this season (although he's been all over the place). So I think this is more a case of having to play Boro more than Boucher playing Wideman less tonight. It seems like he put Wideman on the ice for a similar amount of time as he would in a usual game with the full lineup, he just wasn't going to play him for big minutes on his off side in place of Methot/Claesson. Boro got those minutes instead.

 

[maclean]

It's not about long or short leashes, it's about making the right in-game decisions. It doesn't take anything away from what Andy has done.

I agree. After that fifth goal was the time to do it, at the latest at the end of the second. Because you know they're not done scoring and just delaying the inevitable. You don't do it now you're just going to have to do it later and it's going to look worse and hurt more. That's hockey and it was that kind of game. It doesn't have to be a knock on the goaltender.

 

[maclean]

That sick play by EK to save a gial when Crosby almost got Andy to go behind the net should have never had a whistle and likely should have been a Pens goal. There should not have been a whistle to stop play.

Yes and no. It's not uncommon for the ref to blow a quick whistle in a scrambly situation like that. The puck was under the goaltender. In x out of y situations they'll blow the whistle on that. The Pittsburgh player fished the puck out from under him to put it in, so I would say the puck was probably stopped under the goalie when the whistle was blown, just under his armpit where it wasn't pressed right to the ice. That's a fair call. Lord knows we've had lots of quick whistles go against us.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Looking at the highlights lots of grade a chances given up

 

[Larionov]

In hindsight starting Anderson was a bad idea. He had just been off the ice for five days, and now he goes in cold to face arguably the most explosive team in the NHL. When your veteran starter wants the crease, though, it's tough to say no. The lesson here is that Anderson has only so many miracle starts in him, and we need to manage his workload effectively when he comes back from these extended leaves.

The positives on the night were our power play and our pushback even when the Pens went up and the bad goals started going in. There was no quit, which was great to see.

The biggest negative was Cody Ceci. The time has now come for him to step up and start looking like a first round pick and top four NHL defenceman. He was cruelly exposed last night as being completely out of his depth amongst all those elite forwards, and it shouldn't be the case. Ceci has the tools - it's the mental part of his game that is lacking, and you have to wonder now if that will ever improve...

 

[Six Assets]

No they don't, if we had average goaltending we would have, at worst, went to OT.

Agreed. Anderson was ****.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

I think you are missing the point that some (myself included) are trying to make. Players with such minimal roles shouldn't have such a negative reoccurring impact on the outcome of the game.

We lost by 2 (+1EN). Two of our best players, Stone and Turris, gave them 2 goals with bonehead giveaways. Our usually excellent goalie soiled the sheets. But the low-minute guys are why we lost? OK.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

I agree I would like to limit Ceci's minutes considering his play. But seriously with 30 teams there is a huge limitations to finding top 6 D. There are not exactly a ton of players anywhere not in the NHL that are better then Boro/Wideman/Ceci.

If anything the Senators were smart to sign somewhat competent 5/6 D like Wideman and Boro to approx $1 million deals. The Sens aren't cheaping out. There are just not a lot of NHL caliber D's. We have two competent cheap bottom D's with extra skills. Boro is a top flite fighter and leading the NHL in hits and Wideman is a skilled offensive player with a good shot, high offensive IQ and a secondary PP option.

I kinda think lots of Sens fans think many other teams have amazing bottom D defencemen. They mostly don't. And almost anyone with a quality D beyond their top 5 is paying them a decent salary or have a mediocre top 4.

This. Has no one noticed that the last couple of Cup finals have featured teams that were terrified of exposing their 5-6 guys and went mostly with 4 D? Playing defence in the NHL is a very tough job. There just aren't that many guys who can do it well, especially in the $1M pay bracket.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

We lost by 2 (+1EN). Two of our best players, Stone and Turris, gave them 2 goals with bonehead giveaways. Our usually excellent goalie soiled the sheets. But the low-minute guys are why we lost? OK.

I don't think I've mentioned anywhere in any of my posts that they are the reason we lost.