Sean Avery: We Were Wrong, We're Sorry (Plaschke)

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Vic Rattlehead*

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Baseball vs. Hockey? I thought this was a thread about Avery saying he was sorry. Take the baseball vs. hockey fight elsewhere. ;)
 

shakes

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gscarpenter2002 said:
That being said, I would put "driving a golf ball 300 yards straight" as potentially higher than hitting a baseball. The former requires a much more precise athletic movement, IMO.

I would agree with that.. uh oh.. you mentioned golf... someone is bound to say that they don't have to put up with someone bodychecking them when they do it....
:D
 

norrisnick

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gscarpenter2002 said:
I myself am reacting as another poster did, to the slagging of baseball by hockey fans. Many hockey fans (a generalization, admittedly) more than any other seem to wish to denigrate other sports, for reasons unknown to me.
They're lashing back. Hockey gets ragged on more than any of the big three. Little brother is trying to act tough and pull the big brothers down.
 

mmbt

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gscarpenter2002 said:
Many hockey fans (a generalization, admittedly) more than any other seem to wish to denigrate other sports, for reasons unknown to me.

It's obvious ... we're fans of a niche sport, and the result is a bit of an inferiority complex with regards to hockey.
 

Beukeboom Fan

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HockeyCritter said:
Then it behooves the players to get educated and do so quickly. Even if I didn’t have a college education and I really didn’t pay much attention in high school, I would make damned sure I knew all the details concerning my earning potential. That means I need to learn what agents, accountants, and managers are taking from my salary; that means I need to learn where my money goes; that means I need to learn what my PA leadership is doing; that means I need to learn the details of the negotiation process; and that all falls on me.

If I'm not getting the information I need, then I need to apply pressure until someone hands it over. While the players put their trust in Goodenow et al ultimately it comes down to the players themselves. The very second they felt they were getting a raw deal or weren't being given honest information they should have raised a ruckus to ensure that the information they were being feed was accurate.

I agree 100%, and I think you'll see players take a MUCH more active role in the union's future.
 

Jester

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gscarpenter2002 said:
Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.

that's just humorous. take the sport as a whole and it blows most other sports out of the water.

is it as physically violent as football? no, but it ain't far off... the collisions in hockey have a lot more force in them at that, simply not as often.

is the hand-eye coordination as hard as baseball? no, but lets get a few baseball players out there trying to deflect a shot upper corner...

i mean, once you start making comparisons it is WAY up the list of "athletic" and "difficult" sports to play. and as shown in the post above, ESPN gave it the 2nd ranking for difficulty.

very few sports combine physicality, raw athletic skills (balance, stamina, strength, etc.), and specialized hand-eye ability as well as hockey.
 

Levitate

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It's take a big man to admit he was wrong and suprisingly Avery was the first PA member to do it.

ehh the problem i have is that he's really not quite admitting he's wrong...he's shoving blame off on Goodenow

as for the whole baseball vs. hockey thing...the way i look at it, hockey is more of a complete athletic sport. hitting a baseball may be one of the hardest things to do in sports but you don't particularly have to be good at anything else in order to be a successful baseball player. in hockey you first have to know how to skate, and then how to skate with a hockey stick and deal with the puck, you have to know how to shoot the puck, pass the puck, deal with the physical nature of the sport, etc etc. there are more things to master that aren't just natural in order to become a successful hockey player.
 

Morbo

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gscarpenter2002 said:
Anybody who even remotely compares baseball to hockey in terms of difficult hand-eye athletic endeavours has no idea what they are talking about.

You're right, just in the exact opposite way that you intended to be.
 

Jaded-Fan

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How did this whole baseball/hockey thing start in this thread? Baseball is a fine enough game, my only objection is that unlike hockey seems to be doing I do not think that they will ever get their house in order, or at least will not for decades to come. As long as one team can outspend another by 10 times it will remain a joke to me. But the undelying fundementals of the game are just fine. Hockey and Baseball is like comparing apples and oranges, different games totally and different mindsets when I go to one or the other (nothing like kicking back on a cool summer evening and watching a baseball game for instance).
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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gscarpenter2002 said:
You clearly have never played baseball. As someone who has played both, I (and anyone else who has played both) can do nothing but laugh at your comparison. There is no comparison.

That being said, I would put "driving a golf ball 300 yards straight" as potentially higher than hitting a baseball. The former requires a much more precise athletic movement, IMO.

Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.

I have to jump in here and comment, because I have played all the sports in question and to a pretty high level. Hockey is the most demanding of the three sports you have mentioned (hockey, golf and ball, all forms). You have to be in great shape to play the game and have to be not only strong, but flexible. You have to be aware of everything going on around you in a game that is moving at an incredibly rapid pace. You have to display intuition and imagination to be a great player, and be willing to take a pounding in every game. This is the best, and most demanding of any sport IMO.

Baseball/softball/slo-pitch is a different beast. It is all reactions. Not much thinking involved here, and that's from a middle infielder. When you're in the batters box you've got a second to recognize a pitch and make the adjustment required to hit the ball where you want to. Fortunately, with practice and experience,this becomes pretty easy for most players. The biggest thing is whether you are precise enough to hit the ball exactly where you want, where antoher player cannot defend. Some times the field looks really big, some times it does not. It depends on your mental state during a game. This is probably the most difficult part of the game of baseball, getting past your own inner demons. Once you best them the game becomes pretty easy and its all about having fun.

Now a quick comment on the difference between the three. Slo-pitch requires the most athletecism as there is more action in the game. Hitting is not as easy as some think, especially being able to hit with control from line to line AND having power. Softball (fastpitch) is really a two man game, especially at the high levels. The game is between the pitcher and the batter. This is why Eddie Feigner would call in the team and send them to bench during a game. The pitcher is the game and just getting a bat on the ball is an accomplishment. Getting a hit off of Jeff Boyce was a miracle as the man had a 120 mph riser and three changes of speeds all the way down to the low 60's. If you did manage to get the bat on the ball it was likely going out of the park. With baseball the whole team is relied upon more, and it is mostly a mind-boink game. It really is about outthinking your opposition. But experience and knowing the other players (being a student of the game) make baseball the easiest of the three IMO.

On to golf, I think this is the most challenging sport of the bunch. Its all about you and what you can do with a little ball featuring 392 dimples (332 if your a ProVx man). You have to display power and touch to be good at the game. You have to be able to read the conditions and adjust accordingly. Lastly, and most importantly, you have to be able to play within yourself. Hitting it 300 yards is no problem. Hitting it 300 yards where I want it is the trick. Hitting the draw most of the time is easy, hitting the fade on demand is the challenge. Add in things that jump out of no where and golf plays with your mnd. If all of a sudden a snap hook comes out, or worse a big banana slice, it is extremely un-nerving and hits you hard. You start to question your mechanics and start to think (your greatest enemy on the golf course). You think about it and start over compensating everywhere. You get inside your own head and begin to beat yourself. You don't experience this in other sports. It is difficult enough to master the skills of hitting the ballwith al your clubs, and learning to make the ball bend the way you wish, but it is another to face your inner demons and beat them down during the course of action. Until someone has stood over a 12 foot putt for par, with 3 feet of break, and knowing your livelihod is on the line, you don't know what pressure is all about. Because of all these things, golf is the toughest sport of all IMO. Hockey is a close second, but golf just beats the crap out of you where you live and you have no where to hide during/after the round.
 

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Jaded-Fan said:
How did this whole baseball/hockey thing start in this thread? Baseball is a fine enough game, my only objection is that unlike hockey seems to be doing I do not think that they will ever get their house in order, or at least will not for decades to come. As long as one team can outspend another by 10 times it will remain a joke to me. But the undelying fundementals of the game are just fine. Hockey and Baseball is like comparing apples and oranges, different games totally and different mindsets when I go to one or the other (nothing like kicking back on a cool summer evening and watching a baseball game for instance).
I was using it to question Plaske's knowlege and taste for hockey.
 

SneakerPimp82

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shakes said:
What I'm talking about here is the individual act itself. Shooting on a goalie is, in itself, not all that difficult, hitting a thrown ball is. A pitcher does not want to give a batter a good pitch to hit if he doesn't have to, which is why I'm saying hitting is so difficult. It's very hard to explain if someone hasnt stood in a batter's box and faced a quality pitcher.

you make it sound like every hockey shot is a skater coming in unimpeded and releasing a shot, while every batter in baseball is facing roger clemens' 95 mph fastball. The fact is both acts(making contact with a baseball or getting off a good shot) are hard to perform, whether one is harder or not, neither you nor I know for sure. You can't compare getting a base hit(for which there is a percentage calculation) to scoring a goal(again another percentage calculation) because both have different values in their respective sports.
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

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By the way, Avery is now half an hour late for his interview on Mojo. He's supposed to be coming on still, but the host was half-jokingly (only half, I think) speculating that maybe someone from the PA had "intercepted" him.
 

ResidentAlien*

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The Iconoclast said:
I have to jump in here and comment, because I have played all the sports in question and to a pretty high level. Hockey is the most demanding of the three sports you have mentioned (hockey, golf and ball, all forms). You have to be in great shape to play the game and have to be not only strong, but flexible. You have to be aware of everything going on around you in a game that is moving at an incredibly rapid pace. You have to display intuition and imagination to be a great player, and be willing to take a pounding in every game. This is the best, and most demanding of any sport IMO.

Baseball/softball/slo-pitch is a different beast. It is all reactions. Not much thinking involved here, and that's from a middle infielder. When you're in the batters box you've got a second to recognize a pitch and make the adjustment required to hit the ball where you want to. Fortunately, with practice and experience,this becomes pretty easy for most players. The biggest thing is whether you are precise enough to hit the ball exactly where you want, where antoher player cannot defend. Some times the field looks really big, some times it does not. It depends on your mental state during a game. This is probably the most difficult part of the game of baseball, getting past your own inner demons. Once you best them the game becomes pretty easy and its all about having fun.

Now a quick comment on the difference between the three. Slo-pitch requires the most athletecism as there is more action in the game. Hitting is not as easy as some think, especially being able to hit with control from line to line AND having power. Softball (fastpitch) is really a two man game, especially at the high levels. The game is between the pitcher and the batter. This is why Eddie Feigner would call in the team and send them to bench during a game. The pitcher is the game and just getting a bat on the ball is an accomplishment. Getting a hit off of Jeff Boyce was a miracle as the man had a 120 mph riser and three changes of speeds all the way down to the low 60's. If you did manage to get the bat on the ball it was likely going out of the park. With baseball the whole team is relied upon more, and it is mostly a mind-boink game. It really is about outthinking your opposition. But experience and knowing the other players (being a student of the game) make baseball the easiest of the three IMO.

On to golf, I think this is the most challenging sport of the bunch. Its all about you and what you can do with a little ball featuring 392 dimples (332 if your a ProVx man). You have to display power and touch to be good at the game. You have to be able to read the conditions and adjust accordingly. Lastly, and most importantly, you have to be able to play within yourself. Hitting it 300 yards is no problem. Hitting it 300 yards where I want it is the trick. Hitting the draw most of the time is easy, hitting the fade on demand is the challenge. Add in things that jump out of no where and golf plays with your mnd. If all of a sudden a snap hook comes out, or worse a big banana slice, it is extremely un-nerving and hits you hard. You start to question your mechanics and start to think (your greatest enemy on the golf course). You think about it and start over compensating everywhere. You get inside your own head and begin to beat yourself. You don't experience this in other sports. It is difficult enough to master the skills of hitting the ballwith al your clubs, and learning to make the ball bend the way you wish, but it is another to face your inner demons and beat them down during the course of action. Until someone has stood over a 12 foot putt for par, with 3 feet of break, and knowing your livelihod is on the line, you don't know what pressure is all about. Because of all these things, golf is the toughest sport of all IMO. Hockey is a close second, but golf just beats the crap out of you where you live and you have no where to hide during/after the round.

Hate to admit it, cuz most the time he sounds so damn arrogant;), but he is absolutely right.
And he threw in Eddie Feigner, nicely done
:handclap:
 

Paisano*

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Well concerning the real intent of this thread, I applaud Avery for saying it like it is! I never have liked the guy, always thought he was a jerk but I have a new respect for him now. The players got screwed, the fans got screwed, he apologized for that. If he is sincere, then kudos to him!!
 

Ensane

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Ok, so now in the last week we've got two small time players (with smaller contracts) coming out and lambasting their PA leadership. When are we going to hear a 7 million dollar man criticize the BG?
 

craig1

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HockeyCritter said:
Then it behooves the players to get educated and do so quickly. Even if I didn’t have a college education and I really didn’t pay much attention in high school, I would make damned sure I knew all the details concerning my earning potential. That means I need to learn what agents, accountants, and managers are taking from my salary; that means I need to learn where my money goes; that means I need to learn what my PA leadership is doing; that means I need to learn the details of the negotiation process; and that all falls on me.

If I'm not getting the information I need, then I need to apply pressure until someone hands it over. While the players put their trust in Goodenow et al ultimately it comes down to the players themselves. The very second they felt they were getting a raw deal or weren't being given honest information they should have raised a ruckus to ensure that the information they were being feed was accurate.

You have to undersand that these are guys who for the most part are ignorant to their ignorance. A lot would not pass a GED exam. The few that came from the college ranks were there for hockey, with majors that no realistic individual would look at. Yes, there are exceptions.

These are individuals who, for the most part, truly do not understand what is going on around them in a business sense. The less ignorant ones have someone to help manage their money, but even then are usually robbed blind by said person. The ignorant ones just end up broke from lavish spending on consumables and fast depreciating assets (cars, etc). Again, I say this from experience having known many of these individuals, and their lifestyles.

These guys are expected to understand how a business operates? How a CBA functions? Understand that it was more financially beneficial to not operate last season than to operate (see porduce/not produce theories of general cost accounting)?

These are themental equivilent of high schoolers being led by a lawyer. They don't have the mental acumen, nor education such as myself or some others here. They don't comprehend the entire scope of what was going on. I don't blame them for their ignorance, as it was a career choice. I do blame them if they did not question or attempt to fully comprehend the situation they were dealing with (I cannot say who did, and who didn't, since I don't know what fully happened with ah individual behind losed doors).
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

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Avery has officially stiffed Leafs Lunch. Host now apologizing for Avery's absence. Apparently they've been trying to call him for quite a while now, but no answer. They had arranged the interview with him at around 10am this morning.
 

Scoogs

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ColoradoHockeyFan said:
Avery is coming on Leafs Lunch on mojoradio.com just after the 1pm ET top-of-the-hour break.

Hmm. Looks like he didn't pick up the phone when 640 called. They will try and get all the info they can for tomorrow's show...

From 640's Website...

This time tomorrow we should know when the CBA will be completed, today is a big day in writing up the documents and it will determine if they are done by Friday or if we are looking at next week. One source close to the deal said that the big issues are done and put to bed, they are working on issues now that are "unexciting" but they are taking a long time to get written up, sounds like loopholes are being found in the perdiem and the composite stick buying issues. After a deal in principle is announced, then it will take 5 to 7 days for both sides to ratify the CBA, then GM's will need at least a week or maybe two to figure out what they can and can't do cap wise. August is going to be quite the month for hockey, plenty of UFA signings, the draft and the Canadian Olympic camp in Kelowna. The 2005-06 season unofficially will kick off on August 1st.
 
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