Sean Avery: We Were Wrong, We're Sorry (Plaschke)

[R0CKET]

Baseball sucks.

Avery wears his heart on his sleeve and uses his emotion to act on how he feels about things.

During a hockey game he has more heart than almost anyone on the ice.

Unfortunately the problem with people like him is that they don't think and let their judgment enter into the decision enough, they just act.

What he says is what he really believes today.

For all those that accuse him of not being a brain surgeon, keep in mind he's a pro athlete and they aren't renowned for winning Nobel Peace Prizes for Intelligence...just Stanley Cups.

Yeah Bob Goodenow F'd them but they are responsible cuz the PA gave Bob the rope to hang them all with.

 

[Hasbro]

Sorry...hitting abaseball is no where near as hard as so many claim.

Hitting it safely? Thats a different story.

To say that a player only hits a baseball 30% of the time and is considered a good hitter is so flat out wrong. That player likely hits the ball 90% of the time, just not to spots where the ball clears a fence or touches the ground.

Ground outs....the hitter hit the ball.

Fly outs... the hitter hit the ball.

Pop up and foul out?.....the hitter hits the ball.

The ONLY time you can claim that a hitter doesnt hit the ball is on a strike out. That DOESNT happen 70% of the time.

Getting a bat on a ball happens in about 95% of the AB's in any given game. Doesnt matter if its a 95MPH fastball or a Tim Wakefield knuckler.

Saying that its hard to hit a baseball is a misnomer...hitting the ball is easy. getting it in play is the hard part.

Ruth and Mantle routinely did it plastered.

 

[KL*]

Yeah, how about a one timer? Same basic action with the added difuculty of skating, getting past the goalie and a D-man ready to knock you senseless.

The puck is also smaller and the shooter is also trying to aim the puck, whereas the batter is usually just trying to make solid contact.

I read the Physics of Baseball last summer. Great read and it really shows how difficult a game baseball is. But hockey is harder.

 

[FlyersFan10*]

The vast majority of players decided not to take an active interest in something that greatly affected their future livelyhood, and now they're crying about it? Give me a break. They remained ignorant to the true situation by choice, and all Goodenow did was tell them what they wanted to hear, and honestly, did what they wanted him to do. I see all these players crying now and saying "oh we wasted a year, I'm so mad at Goodenow, if we were going to give in to a cap we just should have done it at the beginning so we didn't miss a year.

This is a fractured union at best. This union was never about representing the whole body of the NHLPA. This union was about representing the top 5 to 10% of players that earn top dollar. Hey, I'm a union supporter as well, but it was clear that the lower end player was going to get the shaft with regards to Goodenow and friends.

There's a reason why players went overseas to play hockey. The big reason you hear is so that the players would keep in shape. There was another reason why players went overseas to play hockey. If you take a look at the majority of players overseas, it was players who could really divide the union if they wanted to. The whole point of the union's philosophy was to divide those who felt the owners made a good deal from those who wouldn't play under a cap.

Everything came back and bit them in the ass in February though. Fact of the matter is that there is going to be a lot of heat on guys like Linden, Boughner, Damphousse, etc....because they failed to look after the best interests of the players. They looked after the top earners and it backfired. So, when this gets resolved, it won't surprise me to see a complete upheaval of the union and it's executive members. You can pretty much count that Goodenow and Saskin will be gone. Linden, Boughner, Damphousse, Klatt, Guerin, Irbe, etc....will be gone. Hell, you might even see Mike Gartner gone from there as well.

The union is going to be messy for the next little while and the big thing that it will take to get the union to come back together is someone who can bring everyone back on the same page. It will also take someone who is willing to work with and not against the owners. The resolve that millionaires would be able to squeeze out billionaires was a foolish, foolish mistake on the union's part.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

this is what has confused me about the lockout -- from the NHLPA's point of view -- from the start. how did they not understand the financial situation? how did they not understand the "war chest" philosophy? it was so *bleeping* obvious from the start that the owners could simply sit on their cash holdings and get what they wanted if they had the resolve... and given that they'd been talking about THIS lockout for five-years or whatever, you had to guess the resolve was there.

his comment that players were in the dark and ignorant of the situation is obvious, but one would think there are more than a few players that could reach this common sense read on the situation and convince their brethren. heck, they could of gone out as a group and publicly voiced their view of the situation... who would have argued with them? only the players...

so frustrating.

Not trying to be a dick - but this was the point that the "pro-owner" side has taken all along.

I love watching NHL hockey. The thing to remember though is that many players have sacrificed much of what we take for granted (like an education) to devote themselves to hockey. Pro atheletes in general are ultra-skilled (except Sean Avery) at what they do, but they lack some basic "living skills". Things like living on a budget, or understanding the financial behind the game.

I think that Avery's comments reinforce what many here suspected - many PA members were completely out of the loop with the state of the game (for which they have to take personal responsibility), and they trusted the wrong person to negotiate for them. Simple as that.

 

[Old Hickory]

It's take a big man to admit he was wrong and suprisingly Avery was the first PA member to do it.

 

[norrisnick]

So being able to touch something going 95 miles an hour is harder than hitting a thrown ball with enough force to get it out of the infield eh? Right... I should know better than to discuss baseball on a hockey board.

Yes.

That's probably best.

 

[Digger12]

You can pretty much count that Goodenow and Saskin will be gone.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Saskin come out of the upcoming witchhunt better than Goodenow, and perhaps better than most on the PA side.

Who's to say he won't argue that he wanted to negotiate, but the guy above him kept undercutting what he was trying to do?

 

[TonySCV]

It's take a big man to admit he was wrong and suprisingly Avery was the first PA member to do it.

Second, technically. Legace admitted mistakes last week, although indirectly (http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=129256&hubName=nhl). Avery was much more blunt (which is no surprise at all)

- T

 

[Montrealer]

People wonder why baseball fans don't respect hockey... when it's painfully obvious that many hockey fans here don't respect baseball.

The entire "hitting a baseball versus one-timing a puck" argument reminded me of similar arguments I've seen comparing baseball to soccer; rugby to cricket; water polo to volleyball, etc...

I don't get it.

I don't enjoy basketball, but I certainly appreciate the athleticism involved in reaching the highest levels of competition that is the NBA and it's players - I don't feel some compulsive need to slag basketball in a ridiculous effort to promote hockey.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

this is what has confused me about the lockout -- from the NHLPA's point of view -- from the start. how did they not understand the financial situation? how did they not understand the "war chest" philosophy? it was so *bleeping* obvious from the start that the owners could simply sit on their cash holdings and get what they wanted if they had the resolve... and given that they'd been talking about THIS lockout for five-years or whatever, you had to guess the resolve was there.

his comment that players were in the dark and ignorant of the situation is obvious, but one would think there are more than a few players that could reach this common sense read on the situation and convince their brethren. heck, they could of gone out as a group and publicly voiced their view of the situation... who would have argued with them? only the players...

so frustrating.

It was said . . . a thousand times . . . on these boards when this lockout began, and for that matter by the vast majority here. The owners learned from the past mistakes of other owners, other sports, other lockouts. They came prepared to fight this battle. The NHLPA for some reason came prepared to fight the battles of the 70's and 80's and for reasons that are beyond me totally ignored the failsafes that these owners put into place. Namely the war chest to wait out up to two years and the 8 owner support being all that Bettman needed to impose his will so that the owners could not fracture. This battle was over before it began, and only Goodenow and the lemmings that he has following him in the majority of the players at the time did not know it.

 

[GSC2k2*]

And batters never put one hoppers to first?

How hard can baseball be if Curt Schilling gets lauded as a hero for playing with a bleeding foot? We expect hockey players with broken feet to play.


Goaltenders have to guess on their 95 mile an hour oncomming target, but they aren't always hitting with their stick.

You clearly have never played baseball. As someone who has played both, I (and anyone else who has played both) can do nothing but laugh at your comparison. There is no comparison.

That being said, I would put "driving a golf ball 300 yards straight" as potentially higher than hitting a baseball. The former requires a much more precise athletic movement, IMO.

Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.

 

[Resolute]

How hard can baseball be if Curt Schilling gets lauded as a hero for playing with a bleeding foot? We expect hockey players with broken feet to play.

Certian injuries affect atheletes playing different sports differently. Comparing apples to oranges to grapes does not prove anything.

Goaltenders have to guess on their 95 mile an hour oncomming target, but they aren't always hitting with their stick.

Goaltenders just have to sit there in their stay-puff marshmallow man outfits and wait for the puck to hit them. Lets see a goalie stand to the side of his net and try to stop pucks with just the blade of his stick and see how successful he is.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Sorry...hitting abaseball is no where near as hard as so many claim.

Hitting it safely? Thats a different story.

To say that a player only hits a baseball 30% of the time and is considered a good hitter is so flat out wrong. That player likely hits the ball 90% of the time, just not to spots where the ball clears a fence or touches the ground.

Ground outs....the hitter hit the ball.

Fly outs... the hitter hit the ball.

Pop up and foul out?.....the hitter hits the ball.

The ONLY time you can claim that a hitter doesnt hit the ball is on a strike out. That DOESNT happen 70% of the time.

Getting a bat on a ball happens in about 95% of the AB's in any given game. Doesnt matter if its a 95MPH fastball or a Tim Wakefield knuckler.

Saying that its hard to hit a baseball is a misnomer...hitting the ball is easy. getting it in play is the hard part.

Maybe it is easy in your company picnic slow pitch game. At even the mid-elite level of baseball (or softball, for that matter), it is quite a trick. I have played high-level fastpitch softball. In that game, most AB's end in a strikeout.

Anybody who even remotely compares baseball to hockey in terms of difficult hand-eye athletic endeavours has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Interesting article that features remarks such as "Bob brainwashed the players" and "The cap will be at $38 million"... Avery's now sounding off an apology to the fans, along with anger at a lost season.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/hocke...012711.column?page=1&coll=la-headlines-sports

Sean Avery is a brainless punk.
I defy anyone to disagree.

 

[ranold26]

It is good to see the players start bashing themselves and their union leader........BUT this stuff should of been happening YEARS ago. I don't see no victims or perps here...... just a bunch of spoiled, uninformed and miscalculating individuals who exploited for years when they could and now when the house of cards are falling, they are trying to make themselves look like a victim.
Sorry, nice try.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.

As I suspected, you really don't know anything about hockey.

 

[London Knights]

I can't speak for how the thread turned as I am posting off the general topic of the first few posts, but I would argue that these apology comments can be entirely attention seeking.

Take a look at McCabe, Modano, Roenick, etc. They made pro-union comments early on, or comments that rubbed fans the wrong way, and where has it led them. Modano made one comment and he will go down with that comment for a long time. McCabe made a few no-cap-ever comments and you have people who think he should retire to hold to that...keeping in mind that McCabe is a player rep and would most likely have been closer to the Goodenow kool-aid.
So anti-NHL stance on the CBA gets you horrible treatment in the media, and from the more knowledgeable fans (assuming we can consider ourselves knowledgeable for posting on a hockey message board...hopefully so)

Now you get the players who say they drank the proverbial kool-aid, and how stupid they were for doing it. A lot of people don't like Avery because of the way he plays. They consider him a cheap shot artist who is nothing more than an agitator. But he comes out with criticism of Bob and all of a sudden it is about saying, good job Sean. You stood up and apologized. He is benefitting from his comments. I would argue that it is a lot easier to throw out comments like this after you have lost.

Avery was the same player spouting off that he would jump to the WHL a few months ago.

I'm fine if we accept...and forgive, players if they make apologies, but I hope that the same treatment is given to all players if this is the case.

 

[Trottier]

...while a guy like Colin Campbell takes Bettmans place to get two new guys in there who don't feel like they have to wage war every time they meet.

You can bet that Bettman's future is assured. He can write his ticket however he wishes after this accomplishment.

Some fans may not like him (some fans don't like anybody), but the people he serves directly surely consider him gold. As they should.

 

[transplant99]

Maybe it is easy in your company picnic slow pitch game. At even the mid-elite level of baseball (or softball, for that matter), it is quite a trick. I have played high-level fastpitch softball. In that game, most AB's end in a strikeout.

Anybody who even remotely compares baseball to hockey in terms of difficult hand-eye athletic endeavours has no idea what they are talking about.

OK...i dont know what im talking about. how freaking lame because it disagrees with your stance. I say you have no idea what YOU are talking about...so I guess im just as correct as you are?

The numbers i posted (generalizations only) are pretty hard to dispute. Please feel free to try though.

I dont play slo pitch, and i played high level fastball for many years ....but thanks for assuming.

 

[norrisnick]

Anybody who even remotely compares baseball to hockey in terms of difficult hand-eye athletic endeavours has no idea what they are talking about.

Maybe you missed the skates on ice with Chris Pronger cross-checking you in the back/kidneys part of my analogy. All other things equal hitting a baseball is harder than redirecting a puck, but all other things are not equal. Not by a long shot.

 

[GSC2k2*]

As I suspected, you really don't know anything about hockey.

Guy, i not only know more about hockey than you, I know waaaaaaay more about business than you, as evidenced by your posting at least. I would be willing to suggest there is no end to the list of subjects about which I know more than you, again as evidenced by your posts. Hockey, and business, are DEFINITELY among that number.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Not trying to be a dick - but this was the point that the "pro-owner" side has taken all along.

I love watching NHL hockey. The thing to remember though is that many players have sacrificed much of what we take for granted (like an education) to devote themselves to hockey. Pro atheletes in general are ultra-skilled (except Sean Avery) at what they do, but they lack some basic "living skills". Things like living on a budget, or understanding the financial behind the game.

I think that Avery's comments reinforce what many here suspected - many PA members were completely out of the loop with the state of the game (for which they have to take personal responsibility), and they trusted the wrong person to negotiate for them. Simple as that.

Then it behooves the players to get educated and do so quickly. Even if I didn’t have a college education and I really didn’t pay much attention in high school, I would make damned sure I knew all the details concerning my earning potential. That means I need to learn what agents, accountants, and managers are taking from my salary; that means I need to learn where my money goes; that means I need to learn what my PA leadership is doing; that means I need to learn the details of the negotiation process; and that all falls on me.

If I'm not getting the information I need, then I need to apply pressure until someone hands it over. While the players put their trust in Goodenow et al ultimately it comes down to the players themselves. The very second they felt they were getting a raw deal or weren't being given honest information they should have raised a ruckus to ensure that the information they were being feed was accurate.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Maybe you missed the skates on ice with Chris Pronger cross-checking you in the back/kidneys part of my analogy. All other things equal hitting a baseball is harder than redirecting a puck, but all other things are not equal. Not by a long shot.

Fair point. They are not equal on either side. In hockey, you do not have the possibility that a guy is goig to fire one AIMED at your left ear with pinpoint control, like in baseball.

In any event, we ar not comparing sports. One involves a huge amount of precise small-muscle control and hand/eye coordination and to a lesser degree on large muscle activities and cardiovascular fitness, whereas the other involves large muscle activities and a huge amount of cardiovascular fitness and to a lesser degree on hand/eye coordination. Both sports require all type of control/coordination to a degree, but the portions are quite different.

I myself am reacting as another poster did, to the slagging of baseball by hockey fans. Many hockey fans (a generalization, admittedly) more than any other seem to wish to denigrate other sports, for reasons unknown to me.

 

[Hasbro]

Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.

Even ESPN has it number 2 Baseball #9. Yeah I guess seven spots is some distance between them, but takes that fishing!