Scouting report on the draft

[V-2 Schneider]

It's those small human flaws that should send up red flags, and do everyday in the business world.Quiet confidence signals a kid who can handle pressure and wants the puck when the game is close.A cocky blowhard signals someone who may not be coachable and lacks the focus to make the sacrifices to excel,regardless of the athletic talent.Kids with character issues can mature,but you don't know at what point the maturation process ends, and where a lack of hockey sense and intelligence begins.

A guy with all kinds of skill and a ten cent head, will revert to form in the end.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Sounds like confidence to me. If he's good, he's right. Personally, I like a guy to be confident, even cocky. Time has shown me that it's the confident ones that turn out to be winners. The mousy ones who say "oh gosh I'd be lucky just to make the team" often fail.

I don't see those two events as comparable at all. Ryan is showing a complete lack of focus, more interested in the food than what he's there for.

Well, I think you're really missing the point here and turning a blind eye a bit.

If he said something like "I wouldn't bet on me being the 5th or 6th d-man next year. When the coaches see wht I can do, I think I'll be a lot higher on the depth chart" ... that would be one thing (like confident).

But if he did in fact say the coaches would have to be "brain dead", I could see that raising flags. I mean, he is already blaming the coaches if he isn't "the man", because he's so used to it? Again, it might have been just a couple of interviews and the kid is 17, so mistakes are made and it might have been more of what he thought they wanted to hear versus who he really is, but I wouldn't go spinning this as a positive, because if that is in fact what he said, no scout or coach is going to give him points for it. They may let it slide upon further examination and discussion, but it is still a stupid thing to say either way (Again, if he did in fact say it and it's not getting spun or a little worse each time it is re-told).

 

[somepuck]

I have a couple of issues with this.

1) If this is a "professional" scout , why is he telling this to someone over drinks, not very professional.
2) Turnbuckle , does he know you are posting his thoughts on a public forum??albeit maybe nobody can figure out who he is...
3) Some posts says this happens in business all the time...if one of my employees came out of an interview then told someone else and I found it in public forum ..I'd fire him. Not a legal issue...its the ethics.
Unless the interviewee knew his answers would be discussed outside the company. Most interview processes are a fairly confidential setting.Answers discussed between decision makers not others, Maybe drafts and scouting are different.

 

[PhoPhan]

While I don't necessarily agree with what this unnamed scout may or may not have done, I don't think David Fischer or any of the prospects interviewed in that environment should or could be under the impression that their words would never be repeated to anyone.

 

[PecaFan]

You don't? They are quite comparable in that the scout dropped both Fischer and Ryan down on his draft list after the interview process - it was for different reasons, but nevertheless the end result was the same.

I didn't say they didn't see them as the same, I said *I* don't.

Scouts let stupid stuff interfere with their evaluations all the time, and end up missing superior players.

 

[Bégin is the bestest*]

turnbuckle from all the info i got from your posts, i am guessing you talked to montreal scouts

second guess would be Minnesota.

i really hope you're wrong, Derick Brassard is ranked really low on the first page of this topic and if you talked to the Montréal scouts it would mean that Gainey won't move up to get Brassard. if you talked to the Montréal scouts, Gainey needs to fire all his scouts and then resign. They made a big mistake last year by drafting Corey Price instead of Brûlé or Kopitar, this year they're gonna make another mistake if they doesn't move up at the 4th or 5th rank to draft Brasssard.

 

[HockeyCritter]

You don't buy he has character issues? That's all fine and dandy, but it's the NHL scouts he has to impress, not fellow players at a camp (no disrespect intended). Anyone dumb enough to draw the wrath of the entire scouting fraternity has character issues if you ask me, and it's going to drop him out of the first round I suspect.

From the first post, sounds like ONE scout and not the entire scouting community.

 

[PecaFan]

From the first post, sounds like ONE scout and not the entire scouting community.

I guess we'll find out Saturday how widespread that opinion is.

 

[old kummelweck]

maybe it was what he was wearing?

[IMAGE]http://www.americancostume.com/page24/Jester.GIF[/IMAGE]

 

[Brock]

turnbuckle, what did they have to say about Cal Clutterbuck exactly?

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

You are pretty outlandish. You do know what libel is I gather, doesn't sound like you do unless you feel I'm outright lying and being malicious. If that's the case so be it, think what you like.

I will once again remind readers that the scouts were calling Fischer's interviewing skills idiotic, I don't believe they were all of the opinion that he is a horrible human being or a dimwit, just way too overzealous in defending his greatness - not the first kid to do it and likely won't be the last.

This scout used the term idiot - did they all say idiot? Probably not; I suspect he was embellishing that part somewhat. He's not a man to mince words - not all scouts are as outspoken as him. People around here really have a tendency to overreact to second hand information, interpret a certain way and reach an unwavering opinion on it.

Having been employed in the press in Canada and the United States, and being employed now, I am every aware of what libel is.
And this looks borderline to me.
And since you are using a handle, and since you are using uncited sources ... Well, I just find this to more than unfair. A week before the draft.

I've personally seen/heard lots of crap with USNTDP players over the last three years ... And I've got better sense than to publish potentially damaging innuendo on a message board.

 

[Aarex]

Having been employed in the press in Canada and the United States, and being employed now, I am every aware of what libel is.
And this looks borderline to me.
And since you are using a handle, and since you are using uncited sources ... Well, I just find this to more than unfair. A week before the draft.

I've personally seen/heard lots of crap with USNTDP players over the last three years ... And I've got better sense than to publish potentially damaging innuendo on a message board.

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, guess what thats what you can do on a message board.

turnbuckle posted information he wanted to share on a message board, guess what thats what he can do on a message board.

there are easily 30 people who have read this thread and said things like "interesting" or "thanks for the info!" I for one am greatfull for any news or information about hockey prospects I enjoy reading the information and making my own choice on if it is valid or not. Guess what, thats what I can do on a message board.

Turnbuckle did not break any rules and I for one am really sick of other people posting negative things about a good informitive post. but guess what, i guess thats what you can do on a message board.

 

[Leslie Treff]

Not sure if this means anything, but Fischer is the only prospect I had an appointment to interview at the Combine who never showed.

 

[Hiishawk]

Scouts can and do drop players entirely from their lists based on interviews and personalities (although generally this would need corroboration from other scouts).
All it takes is one bad apple in the dressing room to spoil the whole atmosphere, the beginning of cliques on the team who don't talk to each other, more and more players who are hard to get along with off the ice. Consensus top 10 players may well be dropped from an entire list on this basis. I've seen it done a number of times.

Basically, if you have a guy you rank #20 available but he looks like he'll have personality issues it is much better to take the guy you have rated #21 but seems to be a solid citizen. There is almost always someone of equal talent left to pick.

By the way, scouts travel together several hundred days of they year to the same locales and tournaments. Many are friends from the old days. So, of course they're going to talk frankly. Things aren't as secretive as you might imagine and it's hard to keep totally mum when it's your full-time job and maybe, your passion. It's hardly an inside secret that, say, Kessell can really fly or that Peckham is one tough SOB. Interestingly, scouts will make more outward negative comments than positive ones. Why? If you criticize a guy it still doesn't reveal who you are really interested in, who you are thinking that you might steal in the draft. I've heard scouts say a million things to those otside their own clubs but I've never heard one say something like, "That guy's expected to go low but we really like him and we're gonna try and pick him earlier than expected in the draft".

Inside the club there are no holds barred. Hearing players descibed as gutless pukes or as certain anatomical parts and so on is part of the daily routine. And, yes, you can hear the positive gushing about certain players too.

If these scouts are old friends of Turnbuckle this type of talk may be quite normal. But they may not be too happy to see their candid remarks come out so frankly and directly on a public message board.

 

[firstroundbust]

I wonder how far "the idiot" drops on draft day

right down to #17

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, guess what thats what you can do on a message board.

turnbuckle posted information he wanted to share on a message board, guess what thats what he can do on a message board.

there are easily 30 people who have read this thread and said things like "interesting" or "thanks for the info!" I for one am greatfull for any news or information about hockey prospects I enjoy reading the information and making my own choice on if it is valid or not. Guess what, thats what I can do on a message board.

Turnbuckle did not break any rules and I for one am really sick of other people posting negative things about a good informitive post. but guess what, i guess thats what you can do on a message board.

Hey ... if you think that message boards are somehow above the law, then by all means, post what you want.
I just think people ought to be careful when posting potential damaging hearsay on a message board.

 

[turnbuckle*]

Perhaps it could have been toned down a bit, but ultimately I didn't take it as a terrible thing the kid did like some are supposing; being cocky and unapologetic when you've been a big fish in a small pond, and "Mr. Hockey" as well, isn't the end of the world. I hope it was a learning experience for the youngster, he'll mature and grow as a player and person as he hits higher competition and realizes he can't carry a team by himself. I talked to another scout about him and he said he was a "ra ra American kid" that was a "bad interview", but was a player with potential who wasn't ranked in his top 30 predominantly because of concerns about his low level of competition.

He's probably going to be fine; he interviewed very poorly with a few from what I was told and it may drop him some in the eyes of those teams, but if he's on a few teams' top 20 (which may be a stretch), he's not going to drop out of the first round - play on the ice is still the determining factor. I remember stories about another American high school defenceman being really cocky at his draft interviews and turning off some teams a couple of decades back - he turned out okay - went by the name of Leetch.

I came across the scout at a restaurant/bar and he afforded me the opportunity to ask him about some prospects for an online article. We chatted about prospects for about 40 minutes or so; we may have had a couple of beers each during the conversation, and what he said wasn't off the record.

I don't take what was said as overly disparaging, merely candid comments on how a cocky prospect's attitude during the interview process was perceived negatively by scouts used to hearing the company line. Some won't mind his attitude - perhaps Bob Clarke?

 

[Aarex]

Hey ... if you think that message boards are somehow above the law, then by all means, post what you want.
I just think people ought to be careful when posting potential damaging hearsay on a message board.

This isn't a court room, its a message board. There isn't a judge that is going to find you in contempt because he lied on a post on a hockey forum.

Seriously man

 

[somepuck]

Not sure if this means anything, but Fischer is the only prospect I had an appointment to interview at the Combine who never showed.

I talked to friends of the family tonight, He never had you on his itinerary. News to them.

He also left the Combine early to get back home to go to his senior prom.

Had 26 interviews with teams on his itinerary and went to every one.

Maybe people should remember these are 18 year olds.

Still seems awfully unfair to be leaking this stuff a week before the draft.

 

[turnbuckle*]

I talked to friends of the family tonight, He never had you on his itinerary. News to them.

He also left the Combine early to get back home to go to his senior prom.

Had 26 interviews with teams on his itinerary and went to every one.

Maybe people should remember these are 18 year olds.

Still seems awfully unfair to be leaking this stuff a week before the draft.

Leak?

Oh please. If it's true, teams already know about how poorly he interviewed. If it's false, do you seriously think teams are going to change their draft list based on hearsay on a message board? Let's deal with reality here please.

 

[somepuck]

Leak?

Oh please. If it's true, teams already know about how poorly he interviewed. If it's false, do you seriously think teams are going to change their draft list based on hearsay on a message board? Let's deal with reality here please.

Hersay. You are correct.

Deal with reality on a message board. Thats the good one!

Facts or not spew it out.

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Just to clear anything up, In my experience turnbuckle always has good information that seems to make itself clear after the draft.

I've missed his posts.

 

[bobbop]

I found the original post to be very informative. What some people are missing is that a) scouts do talk -- I know this best from baseball but I've also seen it in hockey and b) it doesen't take a lot to drive a player down draft boards. Players are usually ranked pretty closely on skill and character and attitude do count. Tweak a few people off and away you go. I think 22 teams passed on Robbie Schremp two years ago -- that wasn't an accident.

 

[Captain Ron]

This isn't a court room, its a message board. There isn't a judge that is going to find you in contempt because he lied on a post on a hockey forum.

Seriously man

Anyone who thinks that anything written on a message board could be used as evidence in any kind of court proceding is really naive or just likes to start crap.

 

[Hunter74]

Can't beleive how many people are hung up on this Fischer kid. Who cares.

Thanks for the info and please dont let the negative nancy's get to you.