Schremp to NTDP

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nomorekids

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Genghis Keon said:
cdnhky1 shouldn't have jumped on Mobey and assumed he was biased, but it has nothing to do with his actual argument. Mobey sided with Schremp (without giving any reasons why), and cdnhky1 disagreed and explained why.

reasons Schremp and agent gave (as per cdnhky1*):
1) "the Ice Dogs won't be competitive this season"
2) "the team's goaltending won't be very good"
3) "Robbie will get beat up on a routine basis because they Ice Dogs aren't tough enough"

* working on the assumption that these are the reasons Schremp and his agent gave--cdnhky1 has proven reliable in the past in such matters.

cdnhky1's refutations of reasons:
1) "While it's still early in the OHL season it's obvious the Ice Dogs will be more than competitive this season. Their 3-0 start is no fluke. This is a good young team that will emerge as a competitor for an OHL championship in the next year or two. It's definitely a much better, and deeper team than the Ice Dogs team Schremp loved playing for last season."
2) "The Ice Dogs also decided not to bring their OA goalie back for another season. Instead, they handed the reins over to David Shantz, an outstanding young goaltender who led his Junior B team to the Ontario final last year as a 16 year-old and who has started this season 3-0, with a gaa of 2.00, save percentage of .946, and 1 shutout."
3) "I also haven't seen too many teams taking liberties with Robbie this year even though he doesn't have a meat head riding shot gun on his line."

cdnhk1 offers a possible reason why Schremp wants out:
"Perhaps Schremp really has left the team because the Ice Dogs had the audacity to demand that a 17 year-old kid attend high school and graduate. For that, the Ice Dogs should definitely be blamed for Schremp and his agent's behaviour."

Seems like a pretty solid argument to me.

i wasn't questioning his argument, in and of itself...it was just the slant that he turned it. the things that you mentioned were more than enough to prove that robbie was wrong in leaving the ice dogs. i just didn't and won't agree with assuming that mobey only felt that way because schremp is an american. mobey is as entitlted to his opinion as any of the rest of us.
 

hocscout

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If I am not mistaken....the NTDP has strict rules about school attendance. I also hear that they must keep above a certain average in their classes to play. School seems to be important at the NTDP. All of the players move on to Div. 1 Colleges, which requires good grades and decent SAT scores.
So, this move may just be a rink to play on until a team makes an offer.
 

William H Bonney

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Exactly hocscout. Everyone is siding with the Ice Dogs, saying Schremp is a lazy, selfish SOB that doesn't want to attend school with NO proof to back that up, but I get lambasted for saying I think blame should be placed more on the Ice Dogs.

He's not happy in his current situation so he chose to do what he believes is best for him. IT'S HIS LIFE!
 

William H Bonney

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VOB said:
Considering that there has been a wholesale change in both management and ownership for the IceDogs, bringing up past events such as the Jason Spezza fiasco make little sense.

He is asking why is that you place the blame on the management rather than the player or his agent?

You have no idea who cndhky1 is Mobey but let me tell you this, you wouldn't have enough money even if you robbed Fort Knox to hold his jock strap. He is on a much higher level than you and just about everyone who uses this message board Mobey.

Ok.

Then why do you guys place the blame on Schremp? What proof do you have of all these allegations?

Big f'in deal. Cndhky1 has no idea who I am as well. If I robbed Fort Knox and I'd still be worth less than Cndhky1, what is he doing roaming around a message board pretending to be some scout?
 

#37-#93-#27*

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hockey_nut said:
This doesn't look good on the kid... if he's not happy, he'll leave.

I also find this to be fairly pathetic. This type of player strategy is ruining the game.
Jason Spezza did the same. What's wrong with him?
 

Herby

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Feb 27, 2002
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I believe I read somewhere that Schremp actually graduated HS this past June (a year early?) and doesn't want to attend college.

Forcing players to go to HS is one thing, but forcing someone to go to college isn't fair, IMO. Some people are just not college material.

And as for it hurting Schremp's draft status, well it didn't hurt Ryan Suter's, I figure if Schremp has a decent WJC and dominates the NTDP, he will be a Top 5 pick.

Scouts wont forget how much he dominated the OPJHL and how well he played as a 16 year old in the OHL. Mike Morris and Brian Boyle were both 1st round picks out of MA Prep Schools, and neither is close to Schremp's level.
 

Herby

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Also, bashing CA for its hockey talent is pathetic. Considering the average yearly temperature in SoCal is over 70 degrees and kids dont have the luxury of playing outdoors whenever they want, SoCal has done an excellent job producing talent.

The LA Junior Kings Midget AAA team is a national power who has sent many players onto much higher levels, including Brett Sterling, who was the best player on the NTDP U-18 team and was amazing at CC this past season as a Freshman. If he were 6'0 instead of 5'7 he would have easily been a 1st round pick.

Bobby Ryan who plays for Owen Sound is also a former Jr. King and considered one of the brightest young talents in the CHL. A projected 1st round pick in his draft year.

Robbie Earl was a star for the NTDP, can play D or forward and was one of the most sought after recruits in the country, choosing Wisconsin over schools like Michigan and BC. He should be a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this years draft.
 

Hitman*

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Bad move for Schremp. He loses a year of devellopment and it will definitely hurt his draft status IMO.

The difference between him and Ryan Suter is that Suter was going to the NCAA, Schremp doesn't have that option, he goes from the best devellopmental league in the world to one that's way below his level.

I kinda hope the IceDogs don't invite him back and don't trade him. He can't act like this in the NHL. Its not like he's playing for the same IceDogs team that Spezza played for.
 

Herby

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Sure Schremp takes a step back for now, but the NTDP has produced a bunch of top end talent. And if Schremp plays out the year in Ann Arbor, he will still be a Top 10 pick (likely Top 5) and he can either play in the NHL, AHL or report back to the OHL (assuming he is traded)

This is a way for Schremp to play in the AHL as an 18 year old, its not a bad idea.
 

Brock

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I still think that comparing the Jason Spezza and this situation regarding Schremp isn't fair.

I'm not condoning either, but from the information we have available to us at the moment, I think Spezza's situation can at least be sympathized with to an extent.

Like i said before, Spezza played for one of the worst teams in OHL history. The team appeared to be going nowhere under the ownership and regime of Don Cherry. It was just an ugly situation. He was a very competitive guy who simply wanted to win.

And while the real reasons why Schremp has left still have yet to really squeak out, the situation (when comparing to Spezza) is still much different. THe Ice Dogs are a rapidly improving team. They made the playoffs for the first time in franchise history last year, their attendance is gaining strength and the organization on a whole seems to be FINALLY establishing itself.

I agree that maybe it's a bit unfair to be throwing out all these speculations about Schremp at the moment, but I also can see why everyone is. This situation is pretty confusing and very hard to understand, giving the circumstances that appear visible to us.
 

Genghis Keon

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nomorekids,

I can agree with that.


Herby said:
And if Schremp plays out the year in Ann Arbor, he will still be a Top 10 pick (likely Top 5) and he can either play in the NHL, AHL or report back to the OHL (assuming he is traded)

This is a way for Schremp to play in the AHL as an 18 year old, its not a bad idea.

With the lockout coming after this season, would a team have time to sign Schremp to a pro contract before the lockout takes effect (to let him play in the AHL through the lockout)? And would they sign him to a current CBA contract if they think rookie contracts are going to be much lower after the new CBA? He might drop a bit just because of this potential signability problem (kind of like players in the MLB draft).

After this year is he too old for the National Development Program? What if the Ice Dogs play hardball and don't trade him? If they don't trade him and he doesn't get signed to a pro contract pretty much right away after being drafted, what are his hockey options for next year? Would he be a free agent the year after (if he's drafted out of the NTDP but goes a year without playing college hockey)? Are there any loopholes that he can use to become a free agent even if he goes back to the OHL after being drafted out of the NTDP? Could this be another signability problem that could have him drop a bit come draft day?

He's probably going to get traded soon enough and clear up all these potential problems, but I think he should have stayed with the team until traded, if for no other reason than to make sure there isn't a chance he'll be left high and dry next year (having to go to Europe to play or something).
 

Funkymoses

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Hitman said:
Bad move for Schremp. He loses a year of devellopment and it will definitely hurt his draft status IMO.

Right, while a lot of the NTDP U-18 schedule is against US Junior competition which is not of the same quality as the OHL, I don't think it's nearly as grim as you portray it. Schremp will probably be playing close to 20 games against NCAA competition, much of it high quality, and several international tournaments against very high quality opposition. And the USHL and NAHL are producing good talent these days.
 

cdnhky1

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Mobey said:
Congratulations on your ignorance, but this has nothing to do with him being American. When top players for your team, whether or not they're American or Canadian (Spezza) consistently state their unhappiness in the program, I'd tend to say that the Ice Dogs are doing something wrong, they're the one consistent factor in it.

So what if California isn't a "junior hockey hotbed." What bothers you more, that kids from California are making great strides in hockey, or that you, as a Canadian, can't hold their jock strap, but you sit behind your computer, turning everything into something it's not, like you're some scout?

Actually Mobey, I am a scout at the OHL level. And I'm also well aware of the situation that exists in Mississauga. But, as you stated, that is irrelevant. I simply challenged you to defend your position that the Ice Dogs deserve the blame here rather than Schremp and his agent. I stated that I felt your position was based solely on the fact that Schremp is an American, which I still believe. As someone else said, when virtually every post you make mentions geography, as did you post on Schremp when you commented that the US u-18 just got much better, I tend to believe that your opinion is strongly influenced by the fact that Schremp is an American and not a Canadian.

So far the only reasoning I have seen from you is that the Spezza and others have pulled the same stunt before therefore it must be the organization and not the player in this instance. Of course, that argument does not stand up. After all, Don Cherry does not own this team nor does he coach it. Rick Vaive (the real reason Spezza wanted out) also does not coach this team. None of the people currently operating the Ice Dogs organization were around when Jason Spezza played for the Ice Dogs. In fact, none of them were even around last year. But, they are highly regarded, honest and fair people with a great track record in the game.

I feel sorry for Robbie because I believe he's being used as a pawn by his agent who is leading the charge here. Something to consider: Scott Norton, Schremp's agent and a relative newcomer to the player representation business is scared to death of losing Schremp to Newport Sports (Don Meehan and Pat Morris), whose offices just happen to be a few blocks away from the Hershey Centre. Newport just also happens to represent Ice Dogs minority owner Chris Pronger and Schremp's teammate Patrick O'Sullivan. Perhaps Norton is pulling this stunt to strengthen his position with Schremp. As another scout mentioned to me last night "the agent wants to be a hero, but the kid doesn't need to be saved because he's in a great situation."

I also don't recall bashing CA for it's hockey talent. I simply stated that it's not exactly a junior hockey hotbed, which it is not. I quite like some of the young players coming out of California like Sterling, Kemp, Earl, Ryan and Rahkashani. And I happen to think Jeff Turcotte has done an outstanding job with the California Wave 88's.
 

Sammy*

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cdnhky1 said:
Actually Mobey, I am a scout at the OHL level. And I'm also well aware of the situation that exists in Mississauga. But, as you stated, that is irrelevant. I simply challenged you to defend your position that the Ice Dogs deserve the blame here rather than Schremp and his agent. I stated that I felt your position was based solely on the fact that Schremp is an American, which I still believe. As someone else said, when virtually every post you make mentions geography, as did you post on Schremp when you commented that the US u-18 just got much better, I tend to believe that your opinion is strongly influenced by the fact that Schremp is an American and not a Canadian.

So far the only reasoning I have seen from you is that the Spezza and others have pulled the same stunt before therefore it must be the organization and not the player in this instance. Of course, that argument does not stand up. After all, Don Cherry does not own this team nor does he coach it. Rick Vaive (the real reason Spezza wanted out) also does not coach this team. None of the people currently operating the Ice Dogs organization were around when Jason Spezza played for the Ice Dogs. In fact, none of them were even around last year. But, they are highly regarded, honest and fair people with a great track record in the game.

I feel sorry for Robbie because I believe he's being used as a pawn by his agent who is leading the charge here. Something to consider: Scott Norton, Schremp's agent and a relative newcomer to the player representation business is scared to death of losing Schremp to Newport Sports (Don Meehan and Pat Morris), whose offices just happen to be a few blocks away from the Hershey Centre. Newport just also happens to represent Ice Dogs minority owner Chris Pronger and Schremp's teammate Patrick O'Sullivan. Perhaps Norton is pulling this stunt to strengthen his position with Schremp. As another scout mentioned to me last night "the agent wants to be a hero, but the kid doesn't need to be saved because he's in a great situation."

I also don't recall bashing CA for it's hockey talent. I simply stated that it's not exactly a junior hockey hotbed, which it is not. I quite like some of the young players coming out of California like Sterling, Kemp, Earl, Ryan and Rahkashani. And I happen to think Jeff Turcotte has done an outstanding job with the California Wave 88's.
:bow: :bow: :bow:

Very interesting , informative & well put.
I trust Mobey will now give you a reasoned response.
 

William H Bonney

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cdnhky1 said:
Actually Mobey, I am a scout at the OHL level. And I'm also well aware of the situation that exists in Mississauga. But, as you stated, that is irrelevant. I simply challenged you to defend your position that the Ice Dogs deserve the blame here rather than Schremp and his agent. I stated that I felt your position was based solely on the fact that Schremp is an American, which I still believe. As someone else said, when virtually every post you make mentions geography, as did you post on Schremp when you commented that the US u-18 just got much better, I tend to believe that your opinion is strongly influenced by the fact that Schremp is an American and not a Canadian.

So far the only reasoning I have seen from you is that the Spezza and others have pulled the same stunt before therefore it must be the organization and not the player in this instance. Of course, that argument does not stand up. After all, Don Cherry does not own this team nor does he coach it. Rick Vaive (the real reason Spezza wanted out) also does not coach this team. None of the people currently operating the Ice Dogs organization were around when Jason Spezza played for the Ice Dogs. In fact, none of them were even around last year. But, they are highly regarded, honest and fair people with a great track record in the game.

I feel sorry for Robbie because I believe he's being used as a pawn by his agent who is leading the charge here. Something to consider: Scott Norton, Schremp's agent and a relative newcomer to the player representation business is scared to death of losing Schremp to Newport Sports (Don Meehan and Pat Morris), whose offices just happen to be a few blocks away from the Hershey Centre. Newport just also happens to represent Ice Dogs minority owner Chris Pronger and Schremp's teammate Patrick O'Sullivan. Perhaps Norton is pulling this stunt to strengthen his position with Schremp. As another scout mentioned to me last night "the agent wants to be a hero, but the kid doesn't need to be saved because he's in a great situation."

I also don't recall bashing CA for it's hockey talent. I simply stated that it's not exactly a junior hockey hotbed, which it is not. I quite like some of the young players coming out of California like Sterling, Kemp, Earl, Ryan and Rahkashani. And I happen to think Jeff Turcotte has done an outstanding job with the California Wave 88's.

Ok.

I never said I was right, I just stated my opinion. Does that make me right? Not at all. But the conclusions you drew about me were pretty unfair. Drawing the conclusion that my stance was just because he's American is pretty weak. The fact that I said the U-18 team "just got a lot better" says nothing but the obvious; when you add a player of that calibre to any team, they got better, just as when Shattuck St. Mary's got Sydney Crosby last year, that made them a lot better.

The majority of my hockey-related posts are regarding American players, so what, shoot me. That's what I have the most interest in. I like following players that will someday represent my country. It's not like Canadians don't care more about the Canadian kids, or the Russians with their kids, etc. I don't see the big deal.

The reason I stated my intitial opinion because there was no evidence out for either side in the Schremp situation, so I stated my OPINION. Just as many of your "he doesn't want to go to school" claims have so far been unfounded to my knowledge, I used past situations to come up with MY opinion.
 

Sammy*

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Mobey said:
Ok.


The reason I stated my intitial opinion because there was no evidence out for either side in the Schremp situation, so I stated my OPINION. Just as many of your "he doesn't want to go to school" claims have so far been unfounded to my knowledge, I used past situations to come up with MY opinion.
What was the foundation of your initial opinion?
 

TMHUNH

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Herby said:
Sure Schremp takes a step back for now, but the NTDP has produced a bunch of top end talent. And if Schremp plays out the year in Ann Arbor, he will still be a Top 10 pick (likely Top 5) and he can either play in the NHL, AHL or report back to the OHL (assuming he is traded)

This is a way for Schremp to play in the AHL as an 18 year old, its not a bad idea.

Why does he take a step back? He will be playing against a lot of NCAA teams (better hockey than most major junior). And he will be playing under a great coaching staff. The team is called the US National DEVELOPMENT program for pete's sake.

I'll be seeing the U-18 team in action this saturday, I can only hope Schremp will be in the lineup already.
 

Juan

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TMHUNH said:
Why does he take a step back? He will be playing against a lot of NCAA teams (better hockey than most major junior). And he will be playing under a great coaching staff. The team is called the US National DEVELOPMENT program for pete's sake.

I'll be seeing the U-18 team in action this saturday, I can only hope Schremp will be in the lineup already.

To say that the exhibition games the U-18 team plays against Division III teams, college club teams, and NAHL/USHL teams is better hockey than the CHL is laughable.

And they will play around a dozen D-I teams this season, no more than 3 or 4 of which I would consider strong hockey programs. If you think this is a better developmental schedule for a potential top 2 pick in the NHL draft than 70+ games that all mean something in the OHL, then there are around 200 NHL scouts who would disagree with you.

BTW, how do you know they are a great coaching staff? Because they say so?

Apparently both Jeff Jackson and Moe Mantha (who applies for every OHL job that comes open) both think that the OHL is a higher rung up the ladder than the NTDP for coaches aspiring to go to the NHL.
 

VOB

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Funkymoses said:
Right, while a lot of the NTDP U-18 schedule is against US Junior competition which is not of the same quality as the OHL, I don't think it's nearly as grim as you portray it. Schremp will probably be playing close to 20 games against NCAA competition, much of it high quality, and several international tournaments against very high quality opposition. And the USHL and NAHL are producing good talent these days.


U.S. NTDP U-18 will play 22 games against NAHL/USHL teams. This is clearly inferior compeitition. They will then play 4 games against DIII teams, again cleary inferior competition. Only thirteen games will be played against D-1 teams but out of those 13 games only 8 of them will be against quality opponents.

No matter how you slice it, the NTDP schedule is simply not up to par in comparison to the OHL.
 

Juan

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VOB said:
Perhaps Schremp should change agents since his move could backfire on him in a real big way! Here is link to a slam article

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030930/chl_mis-sun.html

Schremp's agent is a joke. He has no credibility within Ontario hockey circles, and is seen more as a lovable, bumbling oaf. Virtually every top prospect he has had over the past many years has left him for better agents, usually right before he makes it. My understanding is that he recruited Schremp by hiring his uncle or cousin as a scout.

Scott Norton's claim to fame is that his family owns a small portion of the Chicago Bulls, which apparently entitles him to wear a Bulls NBA championship ring. And I have actually watched this guy show off the ring to people in a minor hockey arena, as if he was on the floor with Jordan and Pippen!

To be quoted as saying that he "doesn't foresee a problem" with his client playing in a hockey game for one team while he is under exclusive contract to another is hilarious - vintage Norton.

Sorry for seeming so hostile, but I have been around minor/junior hockey in Ontario for many years, and while there are many good agents out there, it is the incompetents like this guy who are dangerous to kids' careers.
 

risingstar

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Juan said:
Schremp's agent is a joke. He has no credibility within Ontario hockey circles, and is seen more as a lovable, bumbling oaf. Virtually every top prospect he has had over the past many years has left him for better agents, usually right before he makes it. My understanding is that he recruited Schremp by hiring his uncle or cousin as a scout.

Scott Norton's claim to fame is that his family owns a small portion of the Chicago Bulls, which apparently entitles him to wear a Bulls NBA championship ring. And I have actually watched this guy show off the ring to people in a minor hockey arena, as if he was on the floor with Jordan and Pippen!

To be quoted as saying that he "doesn't foresee a problem" with his client playing in a hockey game for one team while he is under exclusive contract to another is hilarious - vintage Norton.

Sorry for seeming so hostile, but I have been around minor/junior hockey in Ontario for many years, and while there are many good agents out there, it is the incompetents like this guy who are dangerous to kids' careers.

I don't know about you but a small piece of the Bulls is more than I own or anyone else I know. I would be pretty proud of that also. With regards to losing clients, I have read his name a lot in recent years, and believe that he still has some pretty good prospects - Dustin Brown for 1!

With regards to Schremp, I don't know his problems with the Club, but I am sure they are pretty important to him or he would not have left knowing it is his draft year. With regards to Norton's comment about not seeing a problem, is he not just following the quotes which I have seen from members of USA Hockey.

If Norton is dangerous to clients and they end up like Dustin Brown, that I would like that danger for my son! Maybe you should stop slandering people and situations that you do not know.
 

CharlieGirl

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It's possible that we'll never know the reason behind Schremp's walking away from Mississauga. If it's because of school, (and it's almost impossible that he's done high school at age 17), then he's showing a side of himself that is anything but attractive to future teams. If he's following advice of his agent, then I hope the advice is based on what's best for Schremp and no one else. Time will tell whether this move has hurt him in the long run, but playing at a lower level (assuming that he is legally able to play in the US at all - this has yet to be determined to my knowledge) can't help him.

It's amazing to me that a kid with such potential is throwing it away.
 

William H Bonney

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Charlie_Girl49 said:
It's possible that we'll never know the reason behind Schremp's walking away from Mississauga. If it's because of school, (and it's almost impossible that he's done high school at age 17), then he's showing a side of himself that is anything but attractive to future teams.

How is it "almost impossible" for him to be done with high school at 17? I graduated from high school when I was 17.
 
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