Saskatchewan Minor Hockey Thread II
- Thread starter Royal Canuck
- Start date
dickiedunnwrotethis
It's gotta be true.
Saskatoon clubs
SBF,
I think you could make an argument for any of the clubs, but I agree, on paper the Maniacs look like the early fronrunners. An elite first line of Vogel, Antoniadis, and McLeod with the flexibility to move parts around to create two strong lines. With Prefontaine they have the number one lock-down defender in the city and with Randell they have one of the top offensive defensemen. They have a capable tandem in net with Frey and Banks. Frey was the consensus #3 goalie and should be steady. Not an expert on goaltending by any means, but Frey is a battler and Banks looks to provide a large net presence.
SBF,
I think you could make an argument for any of the clubs, but I agree, on paper the Maniacs look like the early fronrunners. An elite first line of Vogel, Antoniadis, and McLeod with the flexibility to move parts around to create two strong lines. With Prefontaine they have the number one lock-down defender in the city and with Randell they have one of the top offensive defensemen. They have a capable tandem in net with Frey and Banks. Frey was the consensus #3 goalie and should be steady. Not an expert on goaltending by any means, but Frey is a battler and Banks looks to provide a large net presence.
Hey Guys, went to a exhibition game with ND and White City, I'm from Manitoba and I gotta tell you things have to change in Sask. You guys can talk about development all you want but wow, the Manitoba AAA teams would absolutely destroy the Sask teams. Also the Manitoba AAA teams are not the best in the country. You may be developing more players but your not developing your top elite players.
South Sask Bantam AAA League ! Regina would have like 2 teams. Right now you are developing a lot of good beer league players and very little dub or NCAA players
Each Sjhl team has a 50 player list. A player is eligible to be listed on there 15 birthday. If more than 1 team lists him that day he has 30 days to choose or the league decides. After that day he goes to the team that list him first. La Ronge and Flin Flon each get to list one player a year 1 month before their birthdate to help with recruiting in a remote area as many kids won't pick them if given a choice
The 'top' elite players are not developing because ... ?
A) You said so?
B) Manitoba has AAA?
C) AAA teams would 'destroy' AA teams?
D) All of the above
Your post wasn't very thought provoking, SNIPE, until you said 'You may be developing more players but ...' - Read that statement slowly.
Ok, sorry I wasn't very clear. Forget about A AA AAA AAAA....Sask has to many teams at the top level of their Bantam program. Sask is trying to develop to many players on the backs of their elite players. Your elite players are not being developed to their full potential as they are playing in a slower less skilled league. This is only my opinion.
The population of Saskatchewan probably only could support 4-5 top tier teams if you go by the numbers of other provinces. We are spread out over a larger area than the lower BC mainland,Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg-southern Manitoba AAA leagues. This makes it tougher to have practices unless kids move away from home. As it is some are already going 2+ hours to practice. The travel to games would be the same as we travel all over the province now but with that few teams you would always be playing the same 3 or 4. Yes 22 top tier teams is to many but how low do you go to make it available for the majority without making it a financially elite instead of a talent elite league? I think it will eventually go to a league that roughly follows the zone format we have however many kids will drop out because of the distance they will have to go to join a team especially in the northern and southwest areas. This would help smaller centers keep their house teams but a some of the higher end players would develop less than they are now. I don't know if there is a right answer to this problem but I think Sask hockey was trying when they formed the Sbaahl, it just needs a little tweaking.
***DEVELOPMENT***
A few thoughts for you SNIPE. All numbers from WEHP website.
1. Does playing against the toughest competition always 'develop' a player? Might it actually hurt development?
Several leagues send their prospects 'down' so they can develop into stronger athletes.
2. AB and BC have 'dominated' the first 2 rounds of the Bantam draft for many years. BUT!!! Check the numbers...
The population of these two provinces (AB and BC) combined is about 9 million people, SK has about 1.1 million, MB has 1.2 million. One would expect that AB and BC would dominate all rounds regardless of AA or AAA hockey organization in the provinces. One would expect that mathematically Saskatchewan would have 2 or 3 kids drafted in each round.
In WEHP words this was an 'off year for Saskatchewan' -- keep this in mind as you look at the numbers below:
AB pop. = 3.9 mill
BC pop. = 4.6 mill
SK pop. = 1.09 mill
MB pop. = 1.2 mill
AB picks:
Alberta – 77 total picks (34.7%)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
10, 12, 5, 9, 9, 9, 7, 8, 3, 5
BC picks:
British Columbia – 46 (20.7)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
7, 2, 5, 3, 4, 3, 6, 5, 6, 5
SK picks:
Saskatchewan – 37 (16.7)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
3, 1, 6, 5, 2, 3, 2, 4, 3, 8
MB picks:
Manitoba – 36 (16.2)
2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8
Using these raw numbers:
AB drafts 1 boy per 50,649 people
BC drafts 1 boy per 100,000 people
SK drafts 1 boy per 29,459 people
MB drafts 1 boy per 33,333 people
Using these numbers ... Maybe a better question would be ' What is AB and BC doing wrong?'
A few thoughts for you SNIPE. All numbers from WEHP website.
1. Does playing against the toughest competition always 'develop' a player? Might it actually hurt development?
Several leagues send their prospects 'down' so they can develop into stronger athletes.
2. AB and BC have 'dominated' the first 2 rounds of the Bantam draft for many years. BUT!!! Check the numbers...
The population of these two provinces (AB and BC) combined is about 9 million people, SK has about 1.1 million, MB has 1.2 million. One would expect that AB and BC would dominate all rounds regardless of AA or AAA hockey organization in the provinces. One would expect that mathematically Saskatchewan would have 2 or 3 kids drafted in each round.
In WEHP words this was an 'off year for Saskatchewan' -- keep this in mind as you look at the numbers below:
AB pop. = 3.9 mill
BC pop. = 4.6 mill
SK pop. = 1.09 mill
MB pop. = 1.2 mill
AB picks:
Alberta – 77 total picks (34.7%)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
10, 12, 5, 9, 9, 9, 7, 8, 3, 5
BC picks:
British Columbia – 46 (20.7)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
7, 2, 5, 3, 4, 3, 6, 5, 6, 5
SK picks:
Saskatchewan – 37 (16.7)
Picks per round -1-9 and then 10-12 is the final number
3, 1, 6, 5, 2, 3, 2, 4, 3, 8
MB picks:
Manitoba – 36 (16.2)
2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8
Using these raw numbers:
AB drafts 1 boy per 50,649 people
BC drafts 1 boy per 100,000 people
SK drafts 1 boy per 29,459 people
MB drafts 1 boy per 33,333 people
Using these numbers ... Maybe a better question would be ' What is AB and BC doing wrong?'
Very well researched and thanks for going to the trouble. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the SK development model. We are doing just fine. This is very interesting in that it proves the point that SK is promoting kids just fine to junior hockey. In fact, really what bantam AAA does is pull the top kids from an area, same as anywhere. AAA has two, three (if lucky four) stand outs on a team. No different than our AA teams. I've watched several AA vs AAA match ups and I've found the compete level very good. AAA I would say "polishes" up the top kids and thats what separates them. Of course parents are shelling out thousands more to do it and in the end are not getting much more bang for their buck. I've heard enough of SK not developing players.
The majority of AAA midgets in SK are directly from AA bantam and in fact many end up playing AAA midget right at their hometown. Contacts, Mintos, Blazers have had a great deal of success and build rosters from the AA systems. That you can not argue. So someone's going to tell me AA bantam is significantly inferior? I don't think so. Since 2000 Sk teams have medaled at the Telus cup 6 times. Not too bad. I'm not counting ND who medaled twice.
Last edited:
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Model
The Saskatchewan approach gets borrowed to varying degrees,by regions in other provinces with low population densities.
The Saskatchewan approach gets borrowed to varying degrees,by regions in other provinces with low population densities.
Estevan vs Brandon Exhibition Bantam AA vs AAA
Estevan and Brandon played two exhibition games this weekend. Scores where 2-1 with each team winning 1 game each. Very little to choose between the two teams. Brandon will most likely be a bottom team in the MB AAA league. Estevan will be a middle of the road team in SK.
Great points by all in this argument but as I have posted many times before the AAA model will not work in SK because our population base is too spread out. Current model is fine and I agree just needs to be tweeked.
Snipe I would agree that this model hurts some of the elite kids short term but our Midget AAA league and Junior A leagues are as good as any in the country. Per capita we do as good as any province in Canada at developing elite players. We also have a program called Sask First that is a model to develop all our elite prospects as do all the other provinces.
Having a ND program gives people a choice to pursue a different path if they wish. So there are options.
For now to me its all good. Will our Bantam teams be able to compete long term with this model at Westerns etc. , Never. Should we change just because we are not competing. I say no because a shift to this model creates way more problems than solutions for all the reasons mentioned in these posts.
Estevan and Brandon played two exhibition games this weekend. Scores where 2-1 with each team winning 1 game each. Very little to choose between the two teams. Brandon will most likely be a bottom team in the MB AAA league. Estevan will be a middle of the road team in SK.
Great points by all in this argument but as I have posted many times before the AAA model will not work in SK because our population base is too spread out. Current model is fine and I agree just needs to be tweeked.
Snipe I would agree that this model hurts some of the elite kids short term but our Midget AAA league and Junior A leagues are as good as any in the country. Per capita we do as good as any province in Canada at developing elite players. We also have a program called Sask First that is a model to develop all our elite prospects as do all the other provinces.
Having a ND program gives people a choice to pursue a different path if they wish. So there are options.
For now to me its all good. Will our Bantam teams be able to compete long term with this model at Westerns etc. , Never. Should we change just because we are not competing. I say no because a shift to this model creates way more problems than solutions for all the reasons mentioned in these posts.
Weyburn Bantam AA Team Defense
Heard that Luke Niemengers has decided not to play in Weyburn this year. That leaves a big hole in this teams defense as he was arguably to be their best Dman.
Heard he is playing in his hometown of Radville so I sure hope he is still going to do the Sask First thing as he is an elite talent.
Heard that Luke Niemengers has decided not to play in Weyburn this year. That leaves a big hole in this teams defense as he was arguably to be their best Dman.
Heard he is playing in his hometown of Radville so I sure hope he is still going to do the Sask First thing as he is an elite talent.
What's the scoop so far this fall around the SK bantam scene? Any exhibition game results, thoughts on how the teams are stacking up?
Perspective
Most who post on this form are die hard hockey people and I am as guilty as anyone in losing perspective as to what Saskatchewan Hockey should be all about.
Below is a link to an article that gives great perspective as to what we should all be trying to accomplish in the overall SK hockey model.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/News/2013/09/16/21126531.html
Most who post on this form are die hard hockey people and I am as guilty as anyone in losing perspective as to what Saskatchewan Hockey should be all about.
Below is a link to an article that gives great perspective as to what we should all be trying to accomplish in the overall SK hockey model.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/News/2013/09/16/21126531.html
Using these raw numbers:
AB drafts 1 boy per 50,649 people
BC drafts 1 boy per 100,000 people
SK drafts 1 boy per 29,459 people
MB drafts 1 boy per 33,333 people
I think your premise is off, you need to compare (drafts, as per your example) to those registered and participating in hockey. BC has a large population but a low hockey enrolment on a per capita basis, according to my research AB has 50% more kids playing hockey than BC with about 20% less population. For those of you in SK who keep pushing this per capita BS keep your head in the snow bank, other provinces have more sports and activities for the kids beyond hockey. In the end, each province produces at about the same rate, based on participants.
AB drafts 1 boy per 50,649 people
BC drafts 1 boy per 100,000 people
SK drafts 1 boy per 29,459 people
MB drafts 1 boy per 33,333 people
I think your premise is off, you need to compare (drafts, as per your example) to those registered and participating in hockey. BC has a large population but a low hockey enrolment on a per capita basis, according to my research AB has 50% more kids playing hockey than BC with about 20% less population. For those of you in SK who keep pushing this per capita BS keep your head in the snow bank, other provinces have more sports and activities for the kids beyond hockey. In the end, each province produces at about the same rate, based on participants.
Premise Off??
Agreed, but just as you disagree with the premise you bring no statistical proof that your premise is correct either. Quit smoking pot and bring some facts to the table. One thing is for sure SK, MB and AB do a better job of drawing kids to participation in hockey. If the kids want to go play that wussi sport soccer have at er BC.
Does anybody know what the actual participation rates (numbers) are per province??
Agreed, but just as you disagree with the premise you bring no statistical proof that your premise is correct either. Quit smoking pot and bring some facts to the table. One thing is for sure SK, MB and AB do a better job of drawing kids to participation in hockey. If the kids want to go play that wussi sport soccer have at er BC.
Does anybody know what the actual participation rates (numbers) are per province??
Does anybody know what the actual participation rates (numbers) are per province??[/QUOTE]
idea that Alberta doubles BC in registration is way off.
Last years numbers..
British Columbia 62, 003
Alberta 71, 691
Saskatchewan 37, 817
Manitoba 29, 401
Bantam male
British Columbia 6028
Alberta 7,415
Saskatchewan 3001
Manitoba 2627
idea that Alberta doubles BC in registration is way off.
Last years numbers..
British Columbia 62, 003
Alberta 71, 691
Saskatchewan 37, 817
Manitoba 29, 401
Bantam male
British Columbia 6028
Alberta 7,415
Saskatchewan 3001
Manitoba 2627
Sask valley 2 Saskatoon Bandits 0
Saskatoon Generals 5 Prince Albert 4
West Central 6 Battlefords 6
Estevan 2 Brandon 1
Brandon 2 Estevan 1
Prince Albert 3 Saskatoon Stallions 2
Saskatoon Outlaws 2 West Central 1
Saskatoon Maniacs 4 Humboldt 3
idea that Alberta doubles BC in registration is way off.
Last years numbers..
British Columbia 62, 003
Alberta 71, 691
Saskatchewan 37, 817
Manitoba 29, 401
Bantam male
British Columbia 6028
Alberta 7,415
Saskatchewan 3001
Manitoba 2627[/QUOTE]
Perfect! Anyone now want to check the bantam draft and statistically track the number of draft picks from each province and divide it by these numbers. That would give you # of drafts per province ratio of bantam players drafted. I believe most would be surprised to find the numbers fairly even but it would be interesting.... A little time consuming but maybe this would help some people get over it and move on to other topics.
Too early for predictions perhaps but nice to see some close games. Let start with north div breakdown team by team. Who should we be watching? Someone from south jump in too. Lets go with some early standings predictions and players to keep an eye out for
