Player Discussion Sami Vatanen II

[Ducks in a row]

Completely wrong.

His contract has 3 seasons on it, so missing 1 month of the very beginning of the first regular season is not going to affect his trade value much.

Digging further, any team trading for Vatanen is certainly close to being a playoff team or already one (otherwise why trade a young cost-controlled RFA for a 25 year old defender)

So why would a playoff team care about the first month of the season? In fact, they won't care at all.

The value may be affected very very very marginally (like an extra 4th round pick) but nothing more.

Yes it will affect his value by a good amount. How much exactly is unknown. I see teams wanting to trade pick(s) and or prospect rather then a top 6 quality forward. Having your opening day and month possibly more being shorthanded by trading a healthy young forward for a injured defenseman is not something I think teams will be jumping to do they will want to avoid it as best they can.

It sounds as if we are leaning towards keeping him for the time being. It's good to reflect on similar situations when trying to diagnose this. I'm sure some teams will back away from a trade, but did we back away from offering Rakell a long term offer when coming off a surgery and missing the first part of the season? No. If Vatanen was a FA, he wouldn't have any issues getting what he would have gotten if he didn't need the surgery, since teams are aware that he will be back shortly into the season. Would stir away some teams, but others would still see an opportunity. Many FAs need surgery and still get good contracts. Hopefully we swing the deal with LV and wait until he is healthy to flip him. Can probably get a greater package at next years deadline anyways.

Signing a UFA that is injured is different then trading for a injured player. When you make a trade you give up something. If a team trades away a top 6 forward for a injured Vatanen they will have removed a top 6 player from their lineup and be waiting for Vatanen to be healthy. Until that time they will of weakened their team.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Keeping him and letting him rebuild his value isn't the worst idea.

 

[Exit Dose]

Yes it will affect his value by a good amount. How much exactly is unknown. I see teams wanting to trade pick(s) and or prospect rather then a top 6 quality forward. Having your opening day and month possibly more being shorthanded by trading a healthy young forward for a injured defenseman is not something I think teams will be jumping to do they will want to avoid it as best they can.

They don't have any alternative. What the above is missing is that there isn't a plan B that gets an NHL team a player like Vatanen on a contract like his if they miss out. So, no, it really doesn't mean much if he misses a month or two. A rare shot at an upgrade is still going to be a rare shot at an upgrade even if they miss a little time. The market hasn't suddenly been flooded with players of his talent level, and doesn't look to be anytime soon.

 

[darkwingduck]

As soon as expansion passes I believe the trade market will become barren again like it was predraft. No one is going to want to trade players they wasted draft slots on. For teams looking for a certain type of player, this is their chance. So while vatanen is injured, he won't be available for awhile after this.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

As soon as expansion passes I believe the trade market will become barren again like it was predraft. No one is going to want to trade players they wasted draft slots on. For teams looking for a certain type of player, this is their chance. So while vatanen is injured, he won't be available for awhile after this.

I'd disagree. Teams will protecty their most valuable assets. But many deals cannot be made prior to the ED because many teams wouldn't have the room to protect the newly acquired player(s). I think there will be healthy trade market after the ED. More so than in a non ED year.

 

[Ducks in a row]

They don't have any alternative. What the above is missing is that there isn't a plan B that gets an NHL team a player like Vatanen on a contract like his if they miss out. So, no, it really doesn't mean much if he misses a month or two. A rare shot at an upgrade is still going to be a rare shot at an upgrade even if they miss a little time. The market hasn't suddenly been flooded with players of his talent level, and doesn't look to be anytime soon.

A team will want to trade pick(s) and or prospect for Vatanen because it won't hurt the team going into the season. Teams know we have a limited time to trade Vatanen before expansion draft. Team trading for Vatanen not only has to wait for him to be healthy they have to protect him in expansion draft as well. If we get a young (under 30) top 6 quality forward who is healthy and signed for multiple years I will be surprised.

 

[ADHB]

A team will want to trade pick(s) and or prospect for Vatanen because it won't hurt the team going into the season. Teams know we have a limited time to trade Vatanen before expansion draft. Team trading for Vatanen not only has to wait for him to be healthy they have to protect him in expansion draft as well. If we get a young (under 30) top 6 quality forward who is healthy and signed for multiple years I will be surprised.

And if they don't trade for him before the ED, we end up doing something else in order to protect him. And then we keep him, and they don't get him at all. Yes, maybe it's to our detriment, but us getting worse doesn't help another team missing out on an upgrade.

 

[Exit Dose]

And if they don't trade for him before the ED, we end up doing something else in order to protect him. And then we keep him, and they don't get him at all. Yes, maybe it's to our detriment, but us getting worse doesn't help another team missing out on an upgrade.

Even if we don't go that route, it's not like we're talking about a single team that is in the market for Vatanen. He's the rarity, the demand for him is not. Any team that tries to do what Ducks In A Row is suggesting is just guaranteeing that they miss out on the opportunity with nothing to fall back on.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Even if we don't go that route, it's not like we're talking about a single team that is in the market for Vatanen. He's the rarity, the demand for him is not. Any team that tries to do what Ducks In A Row is suggesting is just guaranteeing that they miss out on the opportunity with nothing to fall back on.

Exactly. All it takes is one team to say they're willing to give a top 6 player to set the market. And then the others will fall in line.

These discussions are already going on. It's not like BM is going to wait until after the Cup Final just because.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I don't think it's any kind of guarantee we get a top 6 forward for any defenseman traded, but it won't be because of any injury. The idea that a team would kill their chances at a rare opportunity over a few months is kind of ridiculous. If we had a chance at adding an impact forward, you think Murray'd kill a deal because that guy wouldn't be ready to start the year? I sure as heck hope not.

 

[Ducks in a row]

And if they don't trade for him before the ED, we end up doing something else in order to protect him. And then we keep him, and they don't get him at all. Yes, maybe it's to our detriment, but us getting worse doesn't help another team missing out on an upgrade.

Like what else will we do to protect him? Vegas has a chance to have a more competitive team from scratch compared to past expansion teams. Getting them to skip out on picking up good players won't come cheap especially for us with any other choice of player to take being so poor.

Exactly. All it takes is one team to say they're willing to give a top 6 player to set the market. And then the others will fall in line.

These discussions are already going on. It's not like BM is going to wait until after the Cup Final just because.

What teams need a top 4 defenseman? Then what such teams have room to add Vatanen without it resulting in them losing another good player? What teams have top 6 forwards that we would have interest in?

So many things to look at I just don't see us getting a top 6 quality forward. We will probable get a pick and a prospect who is believed to be NHL ready but isn't actually proven yet.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Like what else will we do to protect him? Vegas has a chance to have a more competitive team from scratch compared to past expansion teams. Getting them to skip out on picking up good players won't come cheap especially for us with any other choice of player to take being so poor.



What teams need a top 4 defenseman? Then what such teams have room to add Vatanen without it resulting in them losing another good player? What teams have top 6 forwards that we would have interest in?

So many things to look at I just don't see us getting a top 6 quality forward. We will probable get a pick and a prospect who is believed to be NHL ready but isn't actually proven yet.

Seriously? Probably 15-20. And with regards to the ED, I imagine solidifying their defense takes priority, although with some teams its obviously a consideration.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Like what else will we do to protect him? Vegas has a chance to have a more competitive team from scratch compared to past expansion teams. Getting them to skip out on picking up good players won't come cheap especially for us with any other choice of player to take being so poor.



What teams need a top 4 defenseman? Then what such teams have room to add Vatanen without it resulting in them losing another good player? What teams have top 6 forwards that we would have interest in?

So many things to look at I just don't see us getting a top 6 quality forward. We will probable get a pick and a prospect who is believed to be NHL ready but isn't actually proven yet.

Most of the teams in the league need a top 4 defensemen. Almost all of them can use an offensive RHD. Many of them don't have 3 better defensemen. All it takes is one of those teams who prefer to go with 4 D to get them to play. Alternately, a team who already made a deal with Vegas to take a certain player. You're not thinking outside the box.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Most of the teams in the league need a top 4 defensemen. Almost all of them can use an offensive RHD. Many of them don't have 3 better defensemen. All it takes is one of those teams who prefer to go with 4 D to get them to play. Alternately, a team who already made a deal with Vegas to take a certain player. You're not thinking outside the box.

And how many of those team that need that better defenseman will trade a top 6 forward for that defenseman who is hurt and wont start the season with the team and won't lose a good player to expansion draft after making that trade?

I am not expecting us to get a top 6 quality forward for Vatanen now. If you think we will all I can say is I don't agree but hope your right.

Making a deal for Las Vegas to take a different player won't be cheap things are different then past expansion drafts.

 

[Emerald Duck]

I don't mind moving Vatanen for picks and prospects if that is all that is available due to his injury. We will use his $4.8M salary to offer Fowler a new contract and then pick up a UFA forward.

If a team is willing to offer a better package of picks/prospects due to Vatanen's unavailability for 5-6 months and their hesistancy to move a roster player for an injured dman, then I'd go for it. It's still a much better alternative than moving or exposing Fowler or Manson, and the cost of offering LV an incentive (picks and/or prospects) not to take Vatanen is unknown to all of us at this point.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

And how many of those team that need that better defenseman will trade a top 6 forward for that defenseman who is hurt and wont start the season with the team and won't lose a good player to expansion draft after making that trade?

I am not expecting us to get a top 6 quality forward for Vatanen now. If you think we will all I can say is I don't agree but hope your right.

Making a deal for Las Vegas to take a different player won't be cheap things are different then past expansion drafts.

Probably more than a couple, especially considering some wouldn't have much choice. For instance, if Tampa wants to add a quality defenseman, they're not likely to get much using just futures.

I don't know if that's what happens or if it's on the table, moving him for futures could actually be the best move, but its tough to see the injury being a factor and I don't think teams will end up getting too greedy.

 

[broman]

Keeping him and letting him rebuild his value isn't the worst idea.

My hunch is that this is it. I haven't seen or heard any real indications that BM was looking to part ways with Sami.

Sure if there was a great deal on offer anything is possible, but top end F talent like Drouin or even JT Miller is a pipe dream IMO. Wasn't happening last year with Cam, and not going to happen now with Sami. I think he will bribe McPhee to leave top D intact, and reconsider Sami's future in a year's time after Cam is sorted, one way or another.

In the meantime, I think Bob will address the F corps with lateral moves only. I might not like it but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cogs go, maybe even Ritchie if the return is right. Vermette may end up in LV. I don't think Eaves will resign, and we'll need to wait until TD to see a new (hired) gun of that caliber.

No data to back up any of this, naturally. Just a hunch that is growing stronger.

Edit: Also considering the TOI that Carlyle kept piling on Sami over and again, it just doesn't look like anyone's getting ready to ship him out.

 

[Crosbysux]

My hunch is that this is it. I haven't seen or heard any real indications that BM was looking to part ways with Sami.

Sure if there was a great deal on offer anything is possible, but top end F talent like Drouin or even JT Miller is a pipe dream IMO. Wasn't happening last year with Cam, and not going to happen now with Sami. I think he will bribe McPhee to leave top D intact, and reconsider Sami's future in a year's time after Cam is sorted, one way or another.

In the meantime, I think Bob will address the F corps with lateral moves only. I might not like it but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cogs go, maybe even Ritchie if the return is right. Vermette may end up in LV. I don't think Eaves will resign, and we'll need to wait until TD to see a new (hired) gun of that caliber.

No data to back up any of this, naturally. Just a hunch that is growing stronger.

Edit: Also considering the TOI that Carlyle kept piling on Sami over and again, it just doesn't look like anyone's getting ready to ship him out.

I agree with most of what you said, except for Sami. I agree we give a pick/prospect to McPhee to ensure who we are losing. I don't see us landing Drouin, although I would do cartwheels if we made it happen. JT Miller isn't in the same conversation as Drouin is do to their potential, which is why a guy like JT Miller would make sense for us to acquire. NY needs D and Shattenkirk likely priced himself out of there. Shattenkirk even appeared optimistic about playing in LV, so if that happens, NY will most likely be throwing their hat into the Sami sweepstakes.

As far as the Forward group goes, I see it being affected by the Sami trade. I believe we still end up with Vermette regardless. He'll be the 4th line center next year, which isn't bad since he has experience and can be trusted in multiple situations. Ritchie isn't getting traded. He was one of the few guys that can beat a goalie with his shot alone and is only going to get better. Eaves is not coming back. I heard he made some insinuations of that in his interview. Said he loved it here and would like to resign, but wants some security and will make a family decision. He's going elsewhere, and will likely be looking for the best combo of term and $. He can probably get 4 years somewhere, which is probably wherever he ends up.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Probably more than a couple, especially considering some wouldn't have much choice. For instance, if Tampa wants to add a quality defenseman, they're not likely to get much using just futures.

I don't know if that's what happens or if it's on the table, moving him for futures could actually be the best move, but its tough to see the injury being a factor and I don't think teams will end up getting too greedy.

And what forward is it that Lighting would trade for Vatanen?
Stamkos is a no
Kucherov is a no
Drouin is a dream Ducks fans have but don't see it being considering by the Lightning
Johnson or Palat is what I have heard people think Lighting would trade but for Vatanen? For some reason I would think they would want someone with a better defensive game then Vatanen has.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

And what forward is it that Lighting would trade for Vatanen?
Stamkos is a no
Kucherov is a no
Drouin is a dream Ducks fans have but don't see it being considering by the Lightning
Johnson or Palat is what I have heard people think Lighting would trade but for Vatanen? For some reason I would think they would want someone with a better defensive game then Vatanen has.

Drouin, Palat or Johnson, but IMO Johnson is unlikely. Probably lean more towards Drouin as well between those two.

As for a better defensive game, I'd say he has a nice one, and considering they want offense, who are they going to get with a better defensive game that also brings the offense they want? Thats certainly not Tyson Barrie (who I'm unsure they could get), and unless Trouba springs free, there really aren't many options.

 

[Finnpin]

Congrats to Vatman! He got married last weekend!

 

[Kalv]

Congrats to Vatman! He got married last weekend!

I raise my coffee for that!! legend

 

[Spazkat]

Congrats to Vatman! He got married last weekend!

That's awesome. Any cool pics or karaoke moments like Ovi's?

 

[Sean Garrity]

Please don't have kid then pull a Getzlaf or Perry slump, hoping it's just a slump for the latter.

 

[Paul4587]

If I was a 25 year old making millions of dollars a year playing in the NHL the last thing I would do is get married haha. Is his wife hot at least?