Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Forget the whale ... We'll buy the place with beads

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by DegenX, Oct 28, 2017.

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  1. Shady Machine

    Shady Machine Registered User

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    Maybe some of it is awful luck, but I think it's fair to criticize JR and Co. for not more aggressively pursuing Vegas in the summer. Maybe McPhee refused to deal anyone, but I doubt it.
     
  2. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola

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    Well i mean I definitely agree about the LV aspect. They WANTED picks. They had a perfect amount of 3Cs. I completely agree Vegas should have been our trade partner. We all said it all summer and we all agreed out of the 3 candidates they have, ANY of them would be fair.

    So yeah - i agree completely.
     
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  3. SEALBound

    SEALBound Fancy Conor McSheary

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    I would really like him here. Was he ever a center in his career? I feel like he was...but I can't put my finger on where I thought I knew that from. Mandela Effect I spose. I don't see a Hagelin-Grabner swap...but I would be all over it if it were on the table.

    For Sheary and a 1st I think you get your pick of Vegas centers. That's too much for any center on their roster that's reasonably available. I wouldn't let Sheary and a 1st go for Lindberg, Karlsson, or Haula. Eakin...pshhhhh...I'd want something else coming back with him. Bottom line, that's too much. The longer in the tooth Sid and Geno get, the more important those 1st get. Right now, like last year, I believe getting a quality center prospect into the system should be priority #1, so unless we are getting back an early 20's stud, I don't think the 1st should be on the table unless it's a no brainer deal - like getting Duchene back.

    I would assume so. IIRC, Duchene, Galchenyuk, Sheahan, Shore, Tierney were the names talked about. Problem with Galchenyuk is that the Bergy shot himself in the foot with a 50 BMG by giving him that $4.5mil/yr contract. He's their 4C right now too. Unless there's major retention, I just don't see it happening unless it's a TDL deal with a Hags-Gally swap and even then I don't know...

    It's really tough for me to roster build right now without knowing what we have in Sprong. If we knew that Sprong was going to come in and have a Guentzel like impact, that could certainly open up the possibilities of sending someone else out.

    Guentzel, Sheary, Rust, Kessel, Sprong, Horny, Hags. If Sprong stick, one can go. Each have unique values about what you can get back. Guentzel I think gets you whoever you want. Sheary gets you a really good young 3C. Rust, about the same. Kessel gets you quite the package back and likely cap space. Sprong gets you a 3C prospect at similar stages of development. Horny, no idea but I doubt it's worth it. Hags gets you a similar aged 3C or a poor young 3C.

    One team I'd be tracking hard is Carolina. Lots of centers. Sheary, Rust, or Sprong could likely get us back Lindholm, TT, or maybe Rask. All young guys at reasonable costs. May even be able to go a Hags for Kruger if we kick in something.
     
  4. Andy99

    Andy99 Registered User

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    I feel the same. I mean Sprong was worth considering trading if the return was Duchene, who's still young, offensively talented, speedy and fits our system to a T. However, he's not worth moving for someone like Lindberg, whose more in a 3C mold than a 2 or 1C--quite frankly any of the Vegas centers are not as good as Duchene even with Karlsson's hot start to the season. If we're moving Sprong, we better be getting Couture back.

    I'll be especially angry if we're moving Sprong PLUS a first next year for someone like Haula. I like him but he's not that quality of an offensive threat (I.e. 60+ points) that it's worth giving up our only real prospect and our first in a very good draft
     
  5. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola

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    Even being Haula's biggest fan boy, I would be LIVID with Sprong for Haula. :laugh: Sprong should be a nonstarter. I don't care what the deal is. He's one of a kind in our prospect pool, IMO.
     
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  6. Andy99

    Andy99 Registered User

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    From what I understood from the media, which is the only real source of info anyone on the outside of the organization has, McPhee was NOT moving any forwards over the summer until he saw what he had--and then, it seemed the only ones under consideration were upcoming UFAs like Neal at the TDL. He has said he was only interested in moving D men since he had too many.
    I don't think it's fair to assume JR never contacted Vegas before the season started about their centers. In fact, I bet he did and was told no. But at least there's no info to the contrary
     
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  7. OGBobbyFarnham

    OGBobbyFarnham Registered User

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    ^ Thats what i thought as well.

    I know Friedman was told by a GM a few weeks ago that the forwards other teams want from LV, GMGM isn't willing to move em...
     
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  8. Kip Drordy

    Kip Drordy Looking for friends

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    Panicking about a 3C this season when odds are we will have a nearly impossible task of trying to 3-peat is beyond shortsided. YOU DON'T TRADE SPRONG for a minor upgrade at 3C. (I get mad at myself when I type in capital letters, I simply can't control that side of my brain)
     
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  9. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    FWIW - Pensburgh or whatever, said the Canes would covet a winger like Sprong if they're out of the playoffs, apparently JR has wanted Staal on this team since 2015.

    I like Gronk, he's always been a fantastic fit, but man...I just don't want to lose Sprong. That kid is going to be a stud in this league, I know people will say "Well, if we got Staal back, we'd be a powerhouse again under Sullivan's system" and maybe they're right.

    The deal would need to be fairly big though - 1st, Sprong, Hagelin (cap reasons), etc. And the thought of Staal on this roster with Hornqvist is pretty ****ing awesome.

    But again, I really want to see Sprong on this roster first, I want to see what we have in the kid.
     
  10. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    I think he was always a winger, LW & RW. I remember wanting him in his draft year for the Pens in the 2nd round where he was going to end up going and high (we ****ing took Carl Sneep...CARL SNEEP), then the Canucks took him way higher than anyone expected and waived him when he looked promising lol, which was freaking hilarious. He's still a speedster that can score off the rush, just thinking about how he'd look on Sid's wing or rushing down with Rust or Kessel is fun to think about.
     
  11. chethejet

    chethejet Registered User

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    Pens can move Hags or Sheary in a deal. Sprong gives the Pen big upside and RH shot. Speed with Rust, Sprong and Kessel on RW certainly is a positive. Jake, probably Hags and Rust LW with Hornqvist on third line with a decent center is a needed addition. I do feel GMJR while keenly aware of the chance to repeat won't give away a future impact player for a upgrade at center.
     
  12. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    I didn't want to mention him because of the moaning it'll cause, but when they were going through the list of players the Pens could/should target, Evander Kane was one of them since the LW is a sore spot for the Pens (after Jake and Sheary, it gets bad with Hagelin and Kunhnackl, assuming we consider Sheary as a LW still as well).

    Issues aside (he hasn't had any since before last season), Kane would look fantastic on Sid or Geno's wing. But man, there are some holes on this team that are pretty tough to ignore. I know the 3C and LW thing is an issue, but the defense needs to be better too, Hunwick looks like he might be out for a lot longer now, but having basically the same defense as last year sans Daley as the D we started with, they SHOULD be better.

    Dumoulin, Letang
    Cole, Schultz
    Maatta, Ruhwedel

    Or however the pairings are with Sully.

    Dumoulin, Letang
    Maatta, Schultz
    Cole, Ruhwedel

    I'd be curious if JR potentially looks at moving Cole or if Hunwick might be done, there might be some cap there. It sucks, Hunwick was actually looking really good as a Penguin, he was way faster than I thought he was.
     
  13. chethejet

    chethejet Registered User

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    Can't have enough D so no one is heading out. But despite scoring and some PP concerns, Pens have a favorable schedule and we will know more after the next 14 games. Pens are not out of anything as to playoffs, but no question the focus and play have to improve. Pens are grinders and the season is a grind. Just like the playoffs Pens out grind teams. Pens have 6 home games and 13 away games to date. that is a tough schedule to start with.
     
  14. StaalForOne

    StaalForOne .

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    This was my thinking too. If he drafted any forwards with the intent of moving them later I think it would have been older players like Neal and Perron at the deadline. That is assuming they are out of the playoffs of course. I think his buidling strategy was pretty evident. Draft as many NHL caliber D as possible in hopes of controlling the market and then trading whoever he can on the backend for whatever he can get, but it hasn't played out yet. Maybe at the deadline.
     
  15. Nakawick

    Nakawick Minty Fresh

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    I think we are OK on D. Maybe a cheap depth guy at most. But 3C and LW upgrades are very doable. I think Sprong makes Sheary expendable, or at least worth taking that chance that it works. Sprong can replace Sheary on the right side and Rust can move to the left. Upgrade on Hagelin at LW and we are cooking.

    The big concern though is how long the team will stay in a funk, can they put together a nice stretch to get into a more comfortable playoff spot? The other elephant in the room is if Sid or Geno miss any time. That will really put us a in a pickle.
     
  16. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola

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    I think the majority of us agree, I would rather lose this year and not make the playoffs, than panic and give Sprong away for a bandaid for 1 year.
     
  17. Andy99

    Andy99 Registered User

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    FYI for what it's worth, a poster during Mackey's last chat asked about trading for Kane and Mackey shot it down faster than anything I've seen. I don't know if he knows something or just assuming because of his past that the Pens wouldn't be interested

    Edit...I'm in favor of trading for Kane if we don't have to give up a lot, maybe Sheary and less than a first. I've brought this up before myself. He'd look good on Malkin's wing and is the power forward Sully has been looking for for that line...hence why he's trying out dog meat like Kuhn
     
  18. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    I think it depends on Hunwick. But Corrado was a pleasant surprise this year, solid in his end, good first pass, and he's physical.

    That brings the depth to this:

    Dumoulin
    Schultz
    Letang
    Maatta
    Cole
    *Hunwick
    Ruhwedel

    Corrado

    We'll be fine. Unless that "veteran leader" is on the blueline.


    Oh without a doubt, I love Jarry too, but I'd rather move him over Sprong any day. Ideally, keeping both, but yeah, if a team wanted Jarry for a solid 3C or LW that isn't a rental or 30+ yrs of age (and if he is, better be damn good), I'd be all for it.


    Mackey also insinuated that the Pens would move Maatta, while most other reports say the Pens are not interested in moving Olli Maatta at all. So that might just be his personal opinion, which to me means jack **** to be honest. Kane hasn't been in trouble since before his last season and seems to be quite reformed and has been playing some very inspired hockey since last season or rather the 2nd half of last year. No players have thrown his clothes in the shower or anything of that sort.

    And again, seriously?

    So we're ok with players that commit revenge through nude images of their ex (Zolnierczyk) and commit sexual assault (Billy T), but a guy that wasn't convicted in Kane is bad news? Someone better hide that Dan Quinn & Mario Lemieux bit of news, remember if you knew it went down and did nothing, just throw tons of money at it!!

    Mackey can go stuff himself. I hate hypocrites.
     
  19. Riptide

    Riptide Registered User Sponsor

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    I liked the Sheahan move. We had a hole, and he bought low and cheap on a younger player to try and fill it. We'll see how it pans out. I also like Dumoulin's contract and the Hunwick signing. And while I have some concerns over the overall make up of our blueline, I've been a fan of Hunwick's for the last several years, and think that he will help our team.
     
  20. SEALBound

    SEALBound Fancy Conor McSheary

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    GMGM did talk about building a young, skilled team. I think his goal was to get a good core of young players started and then to take a bunch of guys he felt he could flip for picks that wouldn't be core players. I think guys like Lindberg and Karlsson and Schmidt are likely that young player core and guys like Perron and Neal (and obviously Emelin and Methot) were guys that we expected to send out for nice returns. Neal gets you a 1st at the TDL, Perron likely a 2nd and prospect. Meanwhile, you gather an absurd amount of picks to bolster the lineup that includes good young guys like Lindberg and Karlsson. Just because GMs want those players and offer good value, doesn't mean GMGM wants to trade them. Think about it from his perspective...would you trade someone like Karlsson? 24yo, cheap, center/wing, speed and skill, RFA. That's a valuable asset. Doesn't matter if you intend to contend or not. Your team still needs quality players.

    I don't disagree, I'm just suggesting that we don't know that JR didn't try. I can't imagine GMGM didn't field a lot of calls for guys like Schmidt, Lindberg, and Karlsson. But they match the description of the guys GMGM said he wanted.

    My only concern would be the cap space implications when it comes time to resign other guys like Guentzel, Rust, and Murray. If you want the three-peat...Staal would be a key addition. Wouldn't hate it. But I don't know that I'm sending out Sprong and a 1st...that's a tough pill to swallow, even if you get Staal back.

    Jake-Sid-Rust
    ZAR?-Malkin-Kessel
    Sheary-Staal-Horny (Rust-Staal-Horny as shutdown line)
    Kuhn-Sheahan-Archi
    Reaves

    That would be pretty lethal come playoff time.

    In 2003 we too Matt Stone with our 32nd OV pick. 33OV was Loui Eriksson. Remember was Eriksson did in Dallas? Imagine that on Sid's line. Tons of those type of hindsight "AWW FUDGE!". More recently, imagine Edmonton...1st+2nd in 2015 for Griffin Reinhart. He currently sits in the AHL for the Vegas Golden Knights. Meanwhile, Islanders got Barzal and Beauvillier out of those picks. And Edmonton sent Perron to us for that 1st. So they were out Perron, Barzal, Beauvillier, and now Reinhart. Ouch. We got Hags out of the deal which was huge. Islanders made out like bandits. VGK have a AHL dman.

    I can't fathom a trade where JR gives up Sprong while potentially having a guy for only 1 year. Like Sprong for Bozak (unextended), no way. I don't see that happening. RFA, like Karlsson, maybe. I don't think there's as much "panic" with JR as there is here. I think they know they need to upgrade and are very much looking to do so, but I doubt it's the rabid dog urgency we see here.
     
  21. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola

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    Players I would refuse to move:
    - Sid/Geno (clearly and no need for explanation)
    - Guentzel - because the ELC contract and what he does is worth more than anything you could get back reasonably. He's untouchable right now for me.
    - Murray - No need for explanation
    - Sprong - Because we don't have a single player in the clubhouse with his skillset. Keep him.

    And while I don't want to move guys like Kessel, Rust, Letang, Hornqvist, Schultz... If an insane offer came, I would dabble. The other ones are nonstarters. I'd hang the phone up before you even told me the absurd price you'd pay.
     
  22. ZeroPucksGiven

    ZeroPucksGiven Registered User

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    Thoughts on Thornton if SJ really tumbles? Probably too much $$ to fit into our structure right? Realize this would be a band aid and kicking the 3C can down the road for next year...
     
  23. Riptide

    Riptide Registered User Sponsor

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    Sure it would. It would also be nice to have drafted Forsberg instead of Pouliot. But just like Kostin, even if we'd made the pick, we wouldn't have been picking either of those players.
     
  24. ZeroPucksGiven

    ZeroPucksGiven Registered User

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    Agree with everything EXCEPT for our Defense getting touched. If there is a D getting shipped out, you have to have someone comparable coming back in. I think we're at the tipping point that if we were to lose anyone else on the roster (not talking injuries) our defensive depth would be very much exposed. We've got Corrado and Ruh to cover for injuries, they're good enough 6/7/8's but going any further is going to be problematice
     
  25. Peat

    Peat Registered User

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    I thought Eakin was their 2C? One of their centres is either playing 3C or winger - that's a level of importance to the team where it doesn't necessarily take major assets to prise them free.

    I see zero point in discussing Karlsson tbh.
     
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