Value of: S. Vatanen
- Thread starter bmoc
- Start date
thesaadfather
Kneel Before Saad!
Spazkat
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2015
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Realistically, there is zero chance that BM decides to trade Vatanen this year after giving up Theodore to be able to keep him.
- Sep 27, 2017
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I don't think he gave up Theodore to keep Vatanen. I think he gave up Theodore because Vatanen has more value, and with the depth, Vatanen would return more.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
I don't know about that. He specifically mentioned giving Montour more opportunities and with the amount of dmen in the system, one has to go at some point.
Ducks in a row
Go Ducks Quack Quack
Don't see us trading Vatanen this season. Regardless if we trade him we need a good young forward back who is signed to multiple years.
Spazkat
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If that was the only reason he would have just traded Sami before the deadline instead of losing Theodore. Waiting until after he'd given Theo to Vegas means he would need to get a return fro Sami alone that was enough to make up for the loss of both Theo and Vats for it to not be a net loss.
DavidBL
Registered User
Thats not really accurate. Moving Theo also allowed us to keep Manson and also unload Stoner. Unloading Stoner in itself would have cost us a decent amount.
I don't agree with this. At least I don't think it's this definitive anyway. I think Vatanen will be traded, but it will be next offseason. I absolutely feel that Murray shopped Vatanen, but he was coming off his poorest season, despite playing well in the playoffs. I think Murray wants a ransom for him, and I think he's banking on him playing better this year and greatly increasing his value. That said, if someone offers the right package, I could see him pulling the trigger. However, that will be hard to do because he'll want something that upgrades the team now. I think we'll see Murray move prospects/picks for a top 6 upgrade sometime this season, and then he'll regain some of these pieces by flipping Vatanen in the offseason. Considering how stacked the D will be when he gets back, I think he'll increase his value.
Healthy Ducks defense:
Lindholm-Vatanen
Fowler-Manson
Beauchemin-Montour
Bieksa
DavidBL
Registered User
Disagree. Montour arguably already has. He hasnt been terrific so far this year but no one aside of Cogs has and he is being asked to carry Beauch around the ice.
dracom
Registered User
That shouldn't matter, we need someone who can play in our top 4 and right now Montour can't do that. Plus Montour has be far from terrific this year. This is becoming a similar situation we had with Theo, great first season with us, tons of hope for him and the next season he takes a HUGE step back. We shouldn't be moving Vats until we know Montour can handle the work load, which right now he can't.
DavidBL
Registered User
I very much disagree with your assessment of Montour right now. He isn't a liability playing top 4 minutes right now. I agree that he hasn't looked great and said as much but he hasn't looked bad either. I expect him to improve significantly as soon as he gets a real D partner.
I think it's too early to say he has, but I think some people forget exactly what you just said in regards to Beauchemin. Is Montour playing great right now? No, but he's been solid. Just kind of underperformed on the offensive side of his game. However, as you mentioned, he's been paired with an old Beauchemin, who should not be in the top 4 right now. I personally think it's too early to say he's replaced Vatanen, but I think it's unfair to say he's not top 4 material either. I would say that he's not ready to carry a top 4 pairing role, but I expect to see a much different player when/if he's paired with Lindholm so I'll reserve judgement until then.
I disagree. I think you're ignoring some pretty important details while saying this.
First off, the difference between Theodore's sophomore season and Montour's is that Theodore was showing some bigger concerns. He was constantly getting beat wide, making poor reads, etc. He was also doing all of this in a sheltered, bottom pairing role. Montour is having nowhere near the amount of issues that Theodore had, and he's doing it while playing 3rd most minutes on our defense.
Secondly, like I just mentioned to DavidBL, I think it's too early to judge Montour in a top 4 role this year, but let's not ignore that he's being paired with Beauchemin, who is absolutely NOT a top 4 defenseman. I have a feeling that when we see Montour paired with Lindholm or Fowler, he's going to be a lot better. Again, I'd say it's too early to judge them, but if I had to say right now, I'd say he's not ready to carry a top 4 pair, but I think he's fine in a top 4 role with a stronger partner.
