Player Discussion Ryan Spooner

[Machinehead]

On my phone so I'm too lazy to go back and quote all your posts but I'll try to reply to the general ideas you're going with.

Can u name me 5 teams that didn't bottom out that have won a cup in the past...oh..I dunno...20 years?

By bottom out I mean being one of the 5 worst teams in the league for at least a season.

Yes..I get that it's not a guarantee of winning but are there any examples of it not happening?

I can't even think of one other than the red wings...and wasn't yzerman a 1oa?

And that was precap. Post cap it's next to impossible. Sure..the NhL is littered with stars not taken in the first 5 picks...but you've got almost no examples of teams finding more than 1...
You can't win by getting your stars thru free agency. You need to draft high and draft well.

I just don't get why so many ppl refuse to acknowledge this.

Omgz the oilers prove this doesn't work! Negative causality is absolute bullcrap. Find one example and state it as the reason.

There are no guarantees but if you really want to win a cup..you need super high end cost controlled prospects...and you need to make hard decisions when it comes to the middle and bottom of your lineup.

A guy like spooner..might be good for an extra 3 or 4 wins next year...those 3 or 4 wins might be the difference between the 7th overall pick and the first.

Do any of us really expect this team to be a playoff team next year? I Sure don't.

Then sell off the assets at their peak.

Right now spooner is on fire. This is great. I hope he keeps it up. Then flip him and something else to an idiot like chiarelli for their first rounder.

Half assing this rebuild is what leads to thinking that u can build your top line around dubinsky and giving out massive contracts to drury Gomez redden etc

So this right.
Trade mza at the draft.

Trade 1 of spooner or namestnikov.

Sign Hayes and Skjei.
Build build build.

Anaheim, Detroit, Boston, Carolina, and Dallas.

 

[Machinehead]

fair enough. Personally I'd rather watch 3 or 4 years of trash followed by 10 years of success rather than watching 13 or 14 years of mediocrity.

So would I but that's the absolute best case scenario. And there's more nuance to it than just blowing the roster up.

 

[Inferno]

Anaheim did get the 2nd overall pick what...2 he's before they won? Wasn't Eric staal a first overall?
Disnt Boston have Seguin which they got from kessel when they bottomed out? Modano was a first overall..yzerman was a 4th overall.

What else you got?

 

[Machinehead]

Also, I get the desire for elite talent. I look at the Yankees with Judge, Sanchez, and Stanton at the same time and wonder if the Rangers have had three forwards that good in the last 50 years, let alone at the same time.

That being said, it's a bit of red herring as to why we didn't win the Cup. We failed to win the Cup because during crucial offseasons, we let some of our best players walk to keep some of our worst, and hired a coach that accentuated weaknesses.

If we extend Stralman and let Girardi walk, we win the Cup in 2015. I would bet my life on that.

 

[Inferno]

So would I but that's the absolute best case scenario. And there's more nuance to it than just blowing the roster up.

Blowing up the roster is step 1.

 

[kovazub94]

Too many things go into this equation of winning SC: luck, injuries, missed ref calls etc are no small parts. I mean Presidents Trophy winner rarely translated into SC winner for whatever reason. Take 8 teams (4 East, 4 West) from each season and then build you conclusion on what's working and what's not. You will see there are many ways to build a contender. In this recent Rangers era there were two trips to ECF and one to SCF. Last year should've been a third trip to ECF if not for our wonderful coach. In at least two of these, if things broke differently (in some cases literally) it could've been the Rangers with the SC. The Rangers are and have been rebuilding and they already have some base to build on. If done right there's no reason to force a bottom out from this point for just a chance (not a guarantee or a sure thing) to obtain an elite talent in top 3.

 

[Ghost of jas]

That being said, it's a bit of red herring as to why we didn't win the Cup. We failed to win the Cup because during crucial offseasons, we let some of our best players walk to keep some of our worst, and hired a coach that accentuated weaknesses.

If we extend Stralman and let Girardi walk, we win the Cup in 2015. I would bet my life on that.

I would agree with that. And maybe keep Brian Boyle and not sign Tanner Glass. And then not re-sign Marc Staal and be able to keep Yandle.

 

[Inferno]

Henrik lundqvist was one of the 5 best goalies (imho) ever found in the 7th round...waiting for that to happen again will take infintelylonger than just bottoming out for a few years.

 

[Machinehead]

Anaheim did get the 2nd overall pick what...2 he's before they won? Wasn't Eric staal a first overall?
Disnt Boston have Seguin which they got from kessel when they bottomed out? Modano was a first overall..yzerman was a 4th overall.

What else you got?

The Anaheim second overall was the Crosby lottery. From 2003-2007 they went to the SCF twice and the WCF three times in 4 seasons. Also, they took Bobby Ryan who wasn't on their Cup team.

Seguin wasn't a regular for Boston. Their 05-06 season was filled with injuries and Kessel was their only lottery pick since 2000.

Mike Modano was selected in 1988 and won the Cup in 1999. Yzerman was drafted in 1983 and won the Cup in 1997. We might as well just sign Patrik Stefan if that's what we're going on.

Those are extremely disingenuous inclusions.

 

[Inferno]

I would agree with that. And maybe keep Brian Boyle and not sign Tanner Glass. And then not re-sign Marc Staal and be able to keep Yandle.

Hard to say. That team that went to the finals was also almost out in the first round d...or was it second...can't think right now.


Took msls mom dying for us to turn things around. So incredibly bizarre how random events can dictate a narrative.

 

[Inferno]

The Anaheim second overall was the Crosby lottery. From 2003-2007 they went to the SCF twice and the WCF three times in 4 seasons. Also, they took Bobby Ryan who wasn't on their Cup team.

Seguin wasn't a regular for Boston. Their 05-06 season was filled with injuries and Kessel was their only lottery pick since 2000.

Mike Modano was selected in 1988 and won the Cup in 1999. Yzerman was drafted in 1983 and won the Cup in 1997. We might as well just sign Patrik Stefan if that's what we're going on.

Those are extremely disingenuous inclusions.

Those teams all bottomed out though..and including precap Detroit that had a billion dollar payroll is ridiculous as well.

Honestly anything precap to me is worthless.

 

[Captain Lindy]

I understand a lot of long-time Ranger fans are familiar with our awful history of disastrous first round picks and therefore are skeptical about the future for that reason.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Hard to say. That team that went to the finals was also almost out in the first round d...or was it second...can't think right now.


Took msls mom dying for us to turn things around. So incredibly bizarre how random events can dictate a narrative.

Swap Stralman and Boyle in for Girardi and Glass in 2015, and the Rangers win the Cup that year.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Hard to say. That team that went to the finals was also almost out in the first round d...or was it second...can't think right now.


Took msls mom dying for us to turn things around. So incredibly bizarre how random events can dictate a narrative.

Wasn’t Federov a late round pick?

 

[Machinehead]

Hard to say. That team that went to the finals was also almost out in the first round d...or was it second...can't think right now.


Took msls mom dying for us to turn things around. So incredibly bizarre how random events can dictate a narrative.

MSL's mom is narrative that made everyone feel good.

That series turned around because MAF regressed from the .970 he posted in the first four games.

 

[Machinehead]

Those teams all bottomed out though..and including precap Detroit that had a billion dollar payroll is ridiculous as well.

Honestly anything precap to me is worthless.

Like I said, if "they bottomed out once" is the standard and we're ignoring every other aspect of team building, then offer Stefan a contact and we have our first overall.

 

[kovazub94]

Swap Stralman and Boyle in for Girardi and Glass in 2015, and the Rangers win the Cup that year.

Don't trade away Stempniak...

 

[Thirty One]

On my phone so I'm too lazy to go back and quote all your posts but I'll try to reply to the general ideas you're going with.

Can u name me 5 teams that didn't bottom out that have won a cup in the past...oh..I dunno...20 years?

By bottom out I mean being one of the 5 worst teams in the league for at least a season.

We won't be able to name 5 teams won a Cup that didn't finish bottom 5 in the past 20 years. There are only 5 teams that have not finished bottom 5 in the past 20 years:

Dallas (Cup)
Detroit (Cups)
New Jersey (Cups)
N.Y. Rangers
Minnesota (Impressive for an expansion)

So that's 3/5. The rest of the league is 8/25.

 

[Ori]

Spooner`s value is great now 10 pts in 6 games! He can return a great defensive prospects for us for sure so that is something to consider. And we will never be close to the cup with DeAngelo & Kevin, because they are not strong defensive players - so we need to improve our defensive core. And I`m not sure if we need both DeAngelo & Kevin, personally I would go with Kevin as a keep and look for DeAngelo for future picks or pack him in a package deal end of this season.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

fair enough. Personally I'd rather watch 3 or 4 years of trash followed by 10 years of success rather than watching 13 or 14 years of mediocrity.

You just watched ten years of success.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Anaheim, Detroit, Boston, Carolina, and Dallas.

Missed the twenty year qualifier, sorry.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm just leery of going all in on the tank and ending up like Edmonton, the Islanders, Arizona, etc.

 

[Machinehead]

Rangers?

We didn't win the Cup. But we should have, without doing any of the things everyone says we need to do.

And Vegas has a real chance this year. Who's their 1C? What about 1D? Does anyone even know? You can't just put these things under an umbrella.

As far as I see it, we did bottom out. We've already traded everyone who isn't nailed down including our 28 year old captain. We're 31st in CF% and would absolutely be in the bottom three if Hank wasn't a wall from October through most of January. This is the bottom. This team doesn't get any worse. As long as Hank's here -and he doesn't seem to be budging- this is as far as it falls. We're past that stage now. Starting this summer, it's time to start the process of getting better.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

fair enough. Personally I'd rather watch 3 or 4 years of trash followed by 10 years of success rather than watching 13 or 14 years of mediocrity.

If you could guarantee that outcome
I would too but you can't.

 

[Thirty One]

In case anyone is curious, here's the most bottom-5 finishes since 1997-98:

NYI	11
FLA	8
TB	7
CBJ	6
EDM	6
WPG	5
LA	4
PIT	4
TOR	4
WSH	4
CGY	3
CHI	3
COL	3
NSH	3
VAN	3
ANA	2
ARI	2
BOS	2
BUF	2
CAR	2
STL	2
MTL	1
OTT	1
PHI	1
SJ	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]