Player Discussion Ryan Spooner VII

[twominute]

Unless there is a team that believes Spooner as a center can be more than he's shown thus far into his career at age 25 (almost 26), then his value is mimimal.

Once upon a time, I was convinced he could go elsewhere and be a more valuable player. Now I think he is what he is no matter what team he is on.

And maybe there's a team like Anaheim or NYI who are riding 0% power plays that might like that side of his game, and are willing to pay for it

 

[BruinDust]

And maybe there's a team like Anaheim or NYI who are riding 0% power plays that might like that side of his game, and are willing to pay for it

Certainly there could be. Matter of fact I'd be shocked if there isn't a team or two out there that think they can turn this guy around.

If he was waived today does he clear? Doubtful.

How much a team is willing to pay is the question. I'm going to guess the return won't be significant or anything that helps the Bruins right now.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

As a center, offensive potential vs. lack of a defensive game. If he builds a defensive game netting around 40pts a year, he would be a valuable middle 6 center. In my opinion, if he was a 40pt center who was great on the powerplay and had a defensive game, he would have a future as a Bruin or would have already been traded.

I don't disagree that he's be more valuable as an all-around player. But why demand defence from his game? We see plenty of one-dimensional defensive forwards who can't score to save their lives (one of which has been in the middle of our top line for the past six games). Why demand three-zone play from one guy and not hold everyone else to the same standard?

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Because he plays best with creative, offensive minded players. He can’t carry a line, doesn’t have the skill set for it, but like Kessel, can be a great complimentary piece of used right.

We saw that in the two shifts he played with Marchand and Pastrnak this year. He set Marchand up a couple times for some good chances. The last time he had a full game at center without Beleskey was two seasons ago.

They’ve been been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole for years now and it’s time to move on. He’s not a grinder or defensive forward. If you’re not going to play him more than a couple shifts on the top line while Bergeron is out, then why did you sign him in the first place?

Everyone should have just moved up a spot. I don't think Spooner should have centered the top line. It should have been Krejci up with Marchand. And Spooner should have taken over DK's position.

With all of the young promising youth we have in the roster, there's no reason Spooner can't be paired with someone like Bjork on the third line when everyone is healthy. There's your skill and your creativity without relying on him against other clubs' top checking units.

A happy compromise is easily achievable.

 

[BruinDust]

Everyone should have just moved up a spot. I don't think Spooner should have centered the top line. It should have been Krejci up with Marchand. And Spooner should have taken over DK's position.

With all of the young promising youth we have in the roster, there's no reason Spooner can't be paired with someone like Bjork on the third line when everyone is healthy. There's your skill and your creativity without relying on him against other clubs' top checking units.

A happy compromise is easily achievable.

Just a guess, but Cassidy probably wasn't comfortable with Spooner centering either Debrusk + Bjork, or Debrusk + Pastrnak.

Especially with Debrusk + Bjork, can't say I blame him.

If they did pair up Spooner and Bjork when everyone is healthy on the 3rd scoring line, who would you put on their LW?

It's hard enough to find a fit for Spooner as a C, and it's even harder given the abundance of young inexperienced players on the wing.

 

[twominute]

Certainly there could be. Matter of fact I'd be shocked if there isn't a team or two out there that think they can turn this guy around.

If he was waived today does he clear? Doubtful.

How much a team is willing to pay is the question. I'm going to guess the return won't be significant or anything that helps the Bruins right now.

Yes you're probably right

 

[Bruinfanatic]

Bruins obviously need to develop a young Centreman,the three they have aren't getting any younger and Bergy and Krejci have both had their injury issues the last couple of seasons.If Spoooner isn't the guy who can take over,which obviously he isn't since Nash has been given the job,so it's time to move on from him I think .

 

[Mainehockey33]

Everyone should have just moved up a spot. I don't think Spooner should have centered the top line. It should have been Krejci up with Marchand. And Spooner should have taken over DK's position.

With all of the young promising youth we have in the roster, there's no reason Spooner can't be paired with someone like Bjork on the third line when everyone is healthy. There's your skill and your creativity without relying on him against other clubs' top checking units.

A happy compromise is easily achievable.

The writing is on the wall for Spooner. He’s not going to get any decent wingers for more than two shifts. Either produce with Beleskey and (insert AHL player) or ride the pine. If we still suck when Bergeron gets back then hopefully we can trade him and others.

People are made at Spooner for not producing but I’ve seen a proposal with Beleskey-Backes-Vatrano third line. They would be the slowest line in the NHL. And Kuraly on that line after the game he had against Vegas? No thanks.

Has Spooner been great this year? Nope. I’m ok with trading him at the deadline. But until he’s the worst forward on the team, or his line, he shouldn’t be benched.

Beleskey has epitomized useless hockey player for the past year and the fact that he hasn’t been benched is embarrassing to management. The guy is a liability out there. He was just as bad as Hayes last year and he’s just as bad this year.

 

[BruinDust]

Bruins obviously need to develop a young Centreman,the three they have aren't getting any younger and Bergy and Krejci have both had their injury issues the last couple of seasons.If Spoooner isn't the guy who can take over,which obviously he isn't since Nash has been given the job,so it's time to move on from him I think .

Spooner and Nash to me are transitional players and neither will be in Boston long term, decent chance neither are back even next year.

They have some decent players in the pipeline with JFK, Frederic, Donato and Studnicka in the middle, and Kuraly who could top out as a 3rd line defensive C (a poor man's Chris Kelly).

The next draft I'd like to see them target another C in the 1st round, or a natural RW.

 

[BruinDust]

The writing is on the wall for Spooner. He’s not going to get any decent wingers for more than two shifts. Either produce with Beleskey and (insert AHL player) or ride the pine. If we still suck when Bergeron gets back then hopefully we can trade him and others.

People are made at Spooner for not producing but I’ve seen a proposal with Beleskey-Backes-Vatrano third line. They would be the slowest line in the NHL. And Kuraly on that line after the game he had against Vegas? No thanks.

Has Spooner been great this year? Nope. I’m ok with trading him at the deadline. But until he’s the worst forward on the team, or his line, he shouldn’t be benched.

Beleskey has epitomized useless hockey player for the past year and the fact that he hasn’t been benched is embarrassing to management. The guy is a liability out there. He was just as bad as Hayes last year and he’s just as bad this year.

Cassidy scratched him in last year's playoffs.

Julien also scratched him early last year when he was under-performing.

 

[ODAAT]

Unless there is a team that believes Spooner as a center can be more than he's shown thus far into his career at age 25 (almost 26), then his value is mimimal.

Once upon a time, I was convinced he could go elsewhere and be a more valuable player. Now I think he is what he is no matter what team he is on.

If there is a team out there who are willing to accept that Spooner is there to essentially be a PP specialist who won`t/can`t/isn`t capable of playing sound defensively, then maybe the B`s could get a decent return from him.

I`m tired of reading the comments about who he`s been saddled with __________ for linemates, bottom line is this for me, even when he has had wingers who weren`t 1/4 as gifted offensively and skill wise as he is, it`s not like he was setting plays up, creating with any consistency but those plays were constantly dying on their sticks.

He is what he is IMO, he`s a very good PP guy, barely average 5 v 5 who you`ll have to accept isn`t able to respond defensively if that`s what you need from time to time. I was reading leading into camp how he`d put some weight on, appeared to play heavier on the puck in preseason action and while I was intrigued, my thinking was "where have I seen this movie before"?

Same old, same old, looks good in camp, underwhelms outside of PP time and in his first 4 games, of which I only saw two, if I hadn`t looked at the box score, I wouldn`t have even known he was dressed

 

[Mainehockey33]

A little off topic but imagine if JFK had to play with Beleskey and Vatrano/Czarnik/random AHL Star. I hope that isn’t the case when he’s eventually called up because that’s a terrible fate.

 

[Bruinfanatic]

Spooner and Nash to me are transitional players and neither will be in Boston long term, decent chance neither are back even next year.

They have some decent players in the pipeline with JFK, Frederic, Donato and Studnicka in the middle, and Kuraly who could top out as a 3rd line defensive C (a poor man's Chris Kelly).

The next draft I'd like to see them target another C in the 1st round, or a natural RW.

Bruins definitely need to get developing a Centerman real soon.

 

[BruinDust]

If there is a team out there who are willing to accept that Spooner is there to essentially be a PP specialist who won`t/can`t/isn`t capable of playing sound defensively, then maybe the B`s could get a decent return from him.

I`m tired of reading the comments about who he`s been saddled with __________ for linemates, bottom line is this for me, even when he has had wingers who weren`t 1/4 as gifted offensively and skill wise as he is, it`s not like he was setting plays up, creating with any consistency but those plays were constantly dying on their sticks.

He is what he is IMO, he`s a very good PP guy, barely average 5 v 5 who you`ll have to accept isn`t able to respond defensively if that`s what you need from time to time. I was reading leading into camp how he`d put some weight on, appeared to play heavier on the puck in preseason action and while I was intrigued, my thinking was "where have I seen this movie before"?

Same old, same old, looks good in camp, underwhelms outside of PP time and in his first 4 games, of which I only saw two, if I hadn`t looked at the box score, I wouldn`t have even known he was dressed

I've said this earlier in the thread but I don't even see him very good at that. Above-average maybe.

His passes are crisp and clean. They are also very predicable. He goes down low to Marchand, gets it back, up high to Krug, rinse and repeat.

Rarely does he find passing lanes through the box. Rarely does he rotate with either of Marchand or Krug to try and open up defenders. Just stationary on the half-wall.

And his one-timer ability on the off-wing is almost non-existant. When they do find him open on the off-wing, he always has to cup the puck before letting it go, giving the goaltender time to move across and stop the shot.

 

[ODAAT]

A little off topic but imagine if JFK had to play with Beleskey and Vatrano/Czarnik/random AHL Star. I hope that isn’t the case when he’s eventually called up because that’s a terrible fate.

my gut tells me even with his incredibly young career just now starting, if he played the next 5 games, his stat lines wouldn`t be littered with 0`s

Bruins management gets hammered here for giving up on kids too soon, in Spooner`s case, IMO, they are holding on too long for the hope he starts to get "it" and IMO, his value is dropping

 

[ODAAT]

I've said this earlier in the thread but I don't even see him very good at that. Above-average maybe.

His passes are crisp and clean. They are also very predicable. He goes down low to Marchand, gets it back, up high to Krug, rinse and repeat.

Rarely does he find passing lanes through the box. Rarely does he rotate with either of Marchand or Krug to try and open up defenders. Just stationary on the half-wall.

And his one-timer ability on the off-wing is almost non-existant. When they do find him open on the off-wing, he always has to cup the puck before letting it go, giving the goaltender time to move across and stop the shot.

For as tough as I have been on Spooner (not nearly as much as I have been on DK), I am pulling for him but I just can`t shake the thought he`s not nearly as good as many here think he is or could be if he had the wingers. Like I mentioned above, even with less than offensively minded wingers, 5 on 5, I see no creation of opportunities from him with plays consistently dying on their sticks.

 

[Mainehockey33]

my gut tells me even with his incredibly young career just now starting, if he played the next 5 games, his stat lines wouldn`t be littered with 0`s

Bruins management gets hammered here for giving up on kids too soon, in Spooner`s case, IMO, they are holding on too long for the hope he starts to get "it" and IMO, his value is dropping

Maybe so, but for now he’s a stop gap for JFK/Studnicka/ Frederic. The alternatives are slow or rookie. If JFK looks ready then trade Spooner at the deadline, but for the love of god get rid of Beleskey and bring up Cehlarik. I don’t want to go through “JFK sucks because he can’t generate attack time or offense with bums on his line”.

 

[Kegs]

Ask me again at the ten game point.

 

[BruinDust]

For as tough as I have been on Spooner (not nearly as much as I have been on DK), I am pulling for him but I just can`t shake the thought he`s not nearly as good as many here think he is or could be if he had the wingers. Like I mentioned above, even with less than offensively minded wingers, 5 on 5, I see no creation of opportunities from him with plays consistently dying on their sticks.

Me either. Every blue moon he'll make a play, but for the most part not much going on there 5 on 5.

 

[ODAAT]

Me either. Every blue moon he'll make a play, but for the most part not much going on there 5 on 5.

Agreed

I`d wager opposing coaches barely whisper one thing to their players pre-game about making sure to keep a close eye on him other than when he`s out there on the PP

 

[wintersej]

He didn’t create any offensive chances on their second shift together.

In all seriousness, no one knows. If someone says he sucked there, they didn’t watch the game.

They played 5 shifts together. All 5 started in the offensive zone. The reason you only can remember two shifts is because they spent so much time in the defensive zone. You are seeing what you want to see. Thats what Spooner does. He makes a couple "did you see that!" plays and then runs around with his head cut off in the neutral and defensive zone.

 

[PlayMakers]

I think it's too early in the season to write him off. His face-offs have improved. He was really engaged in pre-season. This early sample is too small for me to say those other things were illusions.

I don't think his problem is line mates. He was pure garbage with Marchand and Pastrnak for 2 games. He's had both good and bad line mates, and he's played great with the bad and bad with the good in equal measure.

Also, don't agree that he has no hockey sense. To my eyes, his issue has always been his drive/compete level. Skating up and down the rink isn't enough. Not for any coach. Not anymore. Honestly, just engaging in a battle isn't enough either. It's about 2nd and 3rd effort in those battles. That's what it takes to compete at an NHL level and that's what he did in pre-season. What happened to that I don't know but IMO if he brought that every night he'd never miss a shift.

 

[BruinDust]

I think it's too early in the season to write him off. His face-offs have improved. He was really engaged in pre-season. This early sample is too small for me to say those other things were illusions.

I don't think his problem is line mates. He was pure garbage with Marchand and Pastrnak for 2 games. He's had both good and bad line mates, and he's played great with the bad and bad with the good in equal measure.

Also, don't agree that he has no hockey sense. To my eyes, his issue has always been his drive/compete level. Skating up and down the rink isn't enough. Not for any coach. Not anymore. Honestly, just engaging in a battle isn't enough either. It's about 2nd and 3rd effort in those battles. That's what it takes to compete at an NHL level and that's what he did in pre-season. What happened to that I don't know but IMO if he brought that every night he'd never miss a shift.

Funny, to my eyes I haven't had a major problem with his "compete level". Not to say it's great, but I've seen him try and battle, but he gets over-powered more often than not, rarely wins a battle. He tries to play well in his own end at times, but totally lacks the awareness to do so. It's not like he floats around in the high slot asking his D-men to try and defend 3 guys.

He wins battles in pre-season against weaker players. Once it's prime time, he's over-matched. Certainly confidence is also an issue, I think he's much more confident in preseason against weaker opponents. What's that 3 straight years of being a pre-season warrior and a regular season flower?

I think his confidence to battle is an issue. Hard to win battles for pucks if you don't believe you can win them.

Chances are PM, that hockey sense is an issue, compete is an issue, confidence is an issue, strength is an issue. Hockey sense to me is the biggest one, he's just not a smart hockey player. If it was a smart player , he wouldn't always need time and space to make anything happen. Why does he always need to be in open ice to make plays? It also goes back to his insistence on playing center and being in open ice, he's not comfortable in close quarters.

The fact it appears he cannot play the wing, also speaks to his hockey sense. Seriously, wing is a MUCH more simple position to play than center. I don't see how a player can play C but be completely ineffective on the wing. But than again, I don't think he can play C at the NHL level either.

 

[PlayMakers]

I've seen him try and battle, but he gets over-powered more often than not, rarely wins a battle. He wins battles in pre-season against weaker players. Once it's prime time, he's over-matched...

That to me is his problem. The "overmatched" thing just doesn't cut it with NHL coaches. Pastrnak was 18 years old and 168lbs soaking wet- and he got into battles and won them with determination and a quick stick. You don't have to be the biggest or strongest to win battles. And he's not a kid anymore. "I'm weak" isn't a valid excuse when it's your 3rd year in the league and 4th/5th pro season. Reports were that he came in stronger and heavier, determined to get better on the boards, so I don't think being weak applies anymore. So overmatched shouldn't apply either.

Watch DeBrusk in a board battle and then watch Spooner. DeBrusk has had less time to develop physically but he just won't be denied. Spooner, (when he's not at his best) goes in and starts to battle, but once he gets boxed out he stops competing, whereas a DeBrusk keeps harassing from behind and tries to work himself back into he battle. Even Bjork, never quits on a play in terms of his pursuit and pressure.

He tries to play well in his own end at times, but totally lacks the awareness to do so. It's not like he floats around in the high slot asking his D-men to try and defend 3 guys.

I don't see his faults in the Dzone as awareness. Like you said, he's not floating around like Seguin did. He's in the right places, but he gets beat out of the corner or he loses a battle and in the second and a half it takes him to get back into the play, the other team has us in a 3on2 and makes us pay.

The fact it appears he cannot play the wing, also speaks to his hockey sense. Seriously, wing is a MUCH more simple position to play than center. I don't see how a player can play C but be completely ineffective on the wing. But than again, I don't think he can play C at the NHL level either.

I know I'm disagreeing a lot but I don't mean to be contrary. Honestly, I don't agree that he can't play wing. Some of the best games he's played in the NHL have been on the wing. I remember Julien saying after one game on the wing that if he played like that every night he'd get all the ice time he can handle. I think he's immature, and stubborn. I think he came into the league thinking he was one of the rare few that teams would make an exception for. A guy who brought so much offensively that they'd forgive inconsistent drive and the resulting defensive problems that creates. It sounded like he was coming out of that delusion this summer, with his talk of getting stronger and being better on the walls. Then he showed in camp that he could be more engaged. Now he has to show it in the regular season, or he's not long for this team. Cassidy certainly seems like he is not a fan.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

JFK is the largest of the 3. Spooner is closer to Czarnik in height than he is JFK. Weight is comparable to JFK but I suspect JFK will add some with more age.

I'd like to offer BUF their choice 2 of Spooner, Belesky or Vatrano and send us back Kane and a pick.

Let the kids fill the hole of the 2 guys gone.

Kane is a high risk high reward. I know it's overpayment but whatever.