Ryan Kesler potential?

[Mess]

Name me another 6-3 20 year old that skates like the wind, scores at almost a point-a-game while facing the other team's top scoring lines, and is a +9, and with this type of maturity (in the AHL)? Seriously.

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year there before moving on. People saying Kesler has no offence are hockey idiots. It is as simple as that. He hasn't had a chance to develop any offence yet, in any league. He has more points already this year than most of his season in the AHL.

He may not score 50 goals, but this is a guy that will be very valuable to the Canucks in the future. I think of a young Rod Brind'Amour when I see Kesler. He is severly underrated here. Which isn't surprising because people here can't see past their own prospects for some reason. I'm not saying Kesler is a top 10 prospect, but he is as "blue-chip" as they come.

This is a Top 50 list and discussion and other prospects aside .. he is being compared favourably to Madden and Brind'Amour in this thread ..while that is lofty praise for an unproven player .. lets say that is his projection possibility ... Does that make him a top XXX player?? ... If you did a TOP 50 NHL list or even TOP 75 would either Brind'Amour or Madden make the list ?? and does that detract from their abilities and contributions to their team ???

I agree with you on the one thing that his offensive abilities have not developed ..but I have said that many times before he is being rushed fast through all levels of play at the expense possibly of his offensive development and based more on his Defensive game and NHL Size ... Realistically like most College drafted kids .. Kesler could in fact now still be in his 3rd year at Ohio State University .. and how that excelled rush up the ranks will effect him long term is anyone's guess ... but he would be going against the odds of a player that was not offensive at the junior ranks and became a solid offensive player at the NHL level ..

Look at Madden and Brind'Amour's resume look like

Madden had 4 years at U. of Michigan producing very impressive numbers and 2 more in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL .. What would Kesler be like if that was his route to the NHL ??

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...y.php3?pid=3313

Brind'Amour may have a closer track path to Kesler having only played 1 year at Michigan State University .. before making the jump .. but in a 1 to 1 comparison to Brind'Amour College and 1st NHL season .. you see completely different results ..

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...ay.php3?pid=576

Can Kesler now at higher levels develop that skill or will he remain forever an 3rd line center like he was at Ohio State University.. ??

Anybody's guess but being realistic it may not happen either ...

 

[sunb]

Does that make him a top XXX player ...

I don't know.... Never seen him in any XXX movies.

Look at Madden and Brind'Amour's resume look like

Madden had 4 years at U. of Michigan producing very impressive numbers and 2 more in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL .. ...

At 18, Kesler played in 40 NCAA games and scored 11 goals and 31 points.

At 18, Madden played in 36 NCAA games and scored 6 goals and 17 points.

At 22, Madden scored 20 goals and 56 points in 74 AHL games.

At 20, Kesler scored 6 goals and 14 points in 17 AHL games.


So you are wrong.

 

[Bad News Benning]

This is a Top 50 list and discussion and other prospects aside .. he is being compared favourably to Madden and Brind'Amour in this thread ..while that is lofty praise for an unproven player .. lets say that is hi projection ... Does that make him a top XXX player ... If you did a TOP 50 NHL list or even TOP 75 would either Brind'Amour or Madden make the list ?? and does that detract from their abilities and contributions to their team ???

I agree with you on the one thing that his offensive abilities have not developed ..but I have said that many times before he is being rushed fast through all levels of play at the expense possible of his offensive development and based more on his Defensive and Size ... Realistically like most College drafted kids .. Kesler could in fact now still be in his 3rd year at Ohio State University .. and how that excelled rush up the ranks will effect him long term is anyone's guess ... but he would be going against the odds of a player that was not offensive at the junior ranks and became a solid offensive player at the NHL level ..

Look at Madden and Brind'Amour's resume look like

Madden had 4 years at U. of Michigan producing very impressive numbers and 2 more in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL ..

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...y.php3?pid=3313

Brind'Amour may have a closer track path to Kesler having only played 1 year at Michigan State University .. before making the jump .. but in a 1 to 1 comparison to Brind'Amour College and 1st NHL season .. you see completely different results ..

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...ay.php3?pid=576

Can Kesler now at higher levels develop that skill or will he remain forever an 3rd line center like he was at Ohio State University.. ??

Anybody's guess but being realistic it may not happen either ...

Kesler didn't play on the 3rd line with Ohio State, he played on the first line with RJ Umberger and Scottie May.

 

[Waveburner]

Is this like the 1000th thread where Canuck fans constantly try to defend the "upside" of Kesler? Give it a rest. I don't care either way I just think it's pointless rehashing this every week when clearly there are very different opinions on him.

 

[Captain Conservative]

Name me another 6-3 20 year old that skates like the wind, scores at almost a point-a-game while facing the other team's top scoring lines, and is a +9, and with this type of maturity (in the AHL)? Seriously.

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year there before moving on. People saying Kesler has no offence are hockey idiots. It is as simple as that. He hasn't had a chance to develop any offence yet, in any league. He has more points already this year than most of his season in the AHL.

He may not score 50 goals, but this is a guy that will be very valuable to the Canucks in the future. I think of a young Rod Brind'Amour when I see Kesler. He is severly underrated here. Which isn't surprising because people here can't see past their own prospects for some reason. I'm not saying Kesler is a top 10 prospect, but he is as "blue-chip" as they come.

I was skeptical about the canucks picking him ahead of Stewart, Stuart and Richards up until recently, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see Kesler eventually evolve into a valuable two way 2nd line center.

 

[Mess]

Kesler didn't play on the 3rd line with Ohio State, he played on the first line with RJ Umberger and Scottie May.

Not my words .. Right from your own nucks poster Reign Nateo above

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year ...

And since Umberger and Skeckel as well as Kesler are Centers some one has to be 1st, 2nd and 3rd line on all teams .. NO ??

 

[ginner classic]

This is a Top 50 list and discussion and other prospects aside .. he is being compared favourably to Madden and Brind'Amour in this thread ..while that is lofty praise for an unproven player .. lets say that is his projection possibility ... Does that make him a top XXX player?? ... If you did a TOP 50 NHL list or even TOP 75 would either Brind'Amour or Madden make the list ?? and does that detract from their abilities and contributions to their team ???

I agree with you on the one thing that his offensive abilities have not developed ..but I have said that many times before he is being rushed fast through all levels of play at the expense possible of his offensive development and based more on his Defensive and Size ... Realistically like most College drafted kids .. Kesler could in fact now still be in his 3rd year at Ohio State University .. and how that excelled rush up the ranks will effect him long term is anyone's guess ... but he would be going against the odds of a player that was not offensive at the junior ranks and became a solid offensive player at the NHL level ..

Look at Madden and Brind'Amour's resume look like

Madden had 4 years at U. of Michigan producing very impressive numbers and 2 more in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL ..

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...y.php3?pid=3313

Brind'Amour may have a closer track path to Kesler having only played 1 year at Michigan State University .. before making the jump .. but in a 1 to 1 comparison to Brind'Amour College and 1st NHL season .. you see completely different results ..

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...ay.php3?pid=576

Can Kesler now at higher levels develop that skill or will he remain forever an 3rd line center like he was at Ohio State University.. ??

Anybody's guess but being realistic it may not happen either ...

Not a bad analysis at all, except on a couple of points:

1.) If any player on the top xxx list projected to be equivalent to Brindy, Ricci, Madden, or peca, they should be in the top 20 no matter what year it is. i look back at even THN's lists from year's past and they were lucky to have even hadhalf of their top prospects make the NHL. When you see a guy you know for sure is going to make the league, and still has a pretty good ceiling as Kesler does, with his intangibles, you have to account for that somehow. Not sure any of us have come up with a solution for that problem yet. Top end potential is not a good comparative for ranking prospects though. I think realistic expectation is. I have said it before and I will say it again, any prospect ranking should try to project what the player is most likely going to become. I may infurate many when I say that I think Stewart is the second coming of Mike Grier, but that is a lot more realistic than comparing him to Todd Bertuzzi.

2.) Here are the numbers from the rest of Brindy's teammates that year. I think the point I want to make is pretty clear.

Bobby Reynolds................................ 47 36 41 77 78
Kip Miller.................................... 47 32 45 77 94
Danton Cole................................... 47 29 33 62 46
Pat Murray.................................... 46 21 41 62 65
Rod Brind'Amour............................... 42 27 32 59 63
Steve Beadle.................................. 46 14 40 54 35
Peter White................................... 46 20 33 53 17
Shawn Heaphy.................................. 47 26 17 43 80
Dwayne Norris................................. 47 16 23 39 40
Jason Woolley................................. 47 12 25 37 26
Brad Hamilton................................. 47 9 20 29 86
Kerry Russell................................. 46 5 23 28 50
Chris Luongo.................................. 47 4 21 25 42
Don Gibson.................................... 39 7 10 17 107
Walt Bartels.................................. 45 5 9 14 12
Jim Cummins................................... 36 3 9 12 100
Joby Messier.................................. 46 2 10 12 70
Mark Hirth.................................... 40 6 1 7 8
Mike O'Toole.................................. 24 3 1 4 28
Jason Muzzatti (G)............................ 42 0 3 3 35
Mike Gilmore (G).............................. 3 0 1 1 2
Chris Marshall................................ 7 0 1 1 11
Jamie Stewart (G)............................. 5 0 0 0 0
Doug Collins.................................. 5 0 0 0 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals 277 439 716 1095


Compare that to OSU's stats in Kesler's year (a pretty darn good team):

R.J. Umberger................................. 43 26 27 53 16
9 Scott May..................................... 43 10 25 35 56
27 Paul Caponigri................................ 42 10 22 32 73
17 Ryan Kesler................................... 40 11 20 31 44
77 Doug Andress.................................. 43 7 16 23 26
11 Daymen Bencharski............................. 42 10 9 19 56
39 Dave Steckel.................................. 36 10 8 18 50
20 Miguel LaFleche............................... 43 10 8 18 10
12 Dan Knapp..................................... 17 6 12 18 14
73 J.B. Bittner.................................. 43 7 10 17 32
16 Chris Olsgard................................. 43 8 5 13 46
10 Rod Pelley.................................... 43 8 3 11 26
2 Nathan Guenin................................. 42 2 9 11 75
44 Eric Skaug.................................... 40 0 10 10 43
7 Peter Broccoli................................ 41 0 9 9 36
5 Scott Titus................................... 43 1 6 7 30
24 Lee Spector................................... 35 2 3 5 10
18 Luke Pavlas................................... 30 0 5 5 27
3 Reed Whiting.................................. 42 0 4 4 30
26 T.J. Latorre.................................. 12 1 1 2 8
34 Mike Betz (G)................................. 36 0 1 1 0
14 Ryan Smith.................................... 1 0 0 0 0
25 Jack Popiel................................... 2 0 0 0 0
8 Thomas Welsh.................................. 6 0 0 0 0
Dave Caruso (G)............................... 8 0 0 0 0
Bench 9 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals 129 213 342 718


Goal scoring was less than half of Michigan's output, which is pretty reflective of the change that has taken place in every single league in North America over that time span.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Not my words .. Right from your own nucks poster Reign Nateo above

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year ...

And since Umberger and Skeckel as well as Kesler are Centers some one has to be 1st, 2nd and 3rd line on all teams .. NO ??

I said played behind I didn't say he was the 3rd line centre, which I am positive he was at times, but that's besides the point. I meant that he wasn't expected to score there because of Umberger, Steckel, and others.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Not my words .. Right from your own nucks poster Reign Nateo above

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year ...

And since Umberger and Skeckel as well as Kesler are Centers some one has to be 1st, 2nd and 3rd line on all teams .. NO ??

He started the season as the 3rd line center, but after impressing so much the first few games he was moved onto the 1st line with Umberger and May. Sometimes Kesler would center the line, sometimes RJ would.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I was skeptical about the canucks picking him ahead of Stewart, Stuart and Richards up until recently, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see Kesler eventually evolve into a valuable two way 2nd line center.

I would still much rather have Stewart than Kesler.

However, Kesler=Richards

 

[Mess]

Not a bad analysis at all, except on a couple of points:

1.) If any player on the top xxx list projected to be equivalent to Brindy, Ricci, Madden, or peca, they should be in the top 20 no matter what year it is. i look back at even THN's lists from year's past and they were lucky to have even hadhalf of their top prospects make the NHL. When you see a guy you know for sure is going to make the league, and still has a pretty good ceiling as Kesler does, with his intangibles, you have to account for that somehow. Not sure any of us have come up with a solution for that problem yet. Top end potential is not a good comparative for ranking prospects though. I think realistic expectation is. I have said it before and I will say it again, any prospect ranking should try to project what the player is most likely going to become. I may infurate many when I say that I think Stewart is the second coming of Mike Grier, but that is a lot more realistic than comparing him to Todd Bertuzzi.

2.) Here are the numbers from the rest of Brindy's teammates that year. I think the point I want to make is pretty clear.


Goal scoring was less than half of Michigan's output, which is pretty reflective of the change that has taken place in every single league in North America over that time span.

Also a good analysis ... and strongly believe in the different place different time when comparing stats of today verses years ago .. but in a projection of a 1-1 to a current player as you pointed out no set rule on how to handle that has been created, and you can really only look at trends..as you have done very well .. but while the point is solid we still don't and can't prove if lower stats by an Individual player is a direct result of the game or the player himself with accuracy ..

but your point is still good that scoring is way down ..which I agree with

but in my Madden example you still have 4 years of College and 2 in the AHL and stats aside that is considerable development time before the NHL .. Once a player makes the show they sort of fit into their role ... and no longer do they have the opportunity to develop those offensive skills .. Once you get limited PP time and play a shut down role and become a solid PK guy .. your offensive numbers are logically going to suffer as a result but no your importance to your team ..

I also agree with prospect potential .. Kesler is far more likely to become an NHLer than some on the potential list .. and every entry draft results in hindsight show how wrong even professionals can be in this procedure ... and while I give HF a tough time .. its an unenviable task because NO ONE not even the player himself knows what the future may hold ..

but these TOP XXX lists are fun and entertaining and focus on UPSIDE and Potential ... a player like Mark Stuart may also like Kesler become a solid NHL yet despite his lack of offense does not make these types of lists ... but still may be the defensive cornerstone of an NHL team ... and really the underlying flaw is that the newer/recently drafted the player is the Higher his ranking is and POTENTIAL is because he still has not proved the CAN NOT make the jump .. where the older the player becomes the more viewings and suddenly what was expected at 18 is much different in reality ..

 

[LaVal]

I agree you need those guys. Where I've always had the problem with Kesler was with him being taken 23rd, with better prospects on the board still. On draft day I posted I would have taken Stewart or O'Sullivan, others suggested Richards or Tambellini, I think that's still looking pretty good.

that's your opinion on priority and you can't argue with that. however, the Vancouver organization thought differently. when the Canucks first drafted him i felt the same way, but from the moment i saw him in training camp i saw something special in him and obviously the Vancouver organization did as well.

Taking a third line checker over a first line scorer is inexcusable, especially on a team that's bereft of offensive prospects. Well, many Canucks prospects are offensive, but not in the hockey sense of the word. ;:

You take guys like Peca 40th overall, or guys like Madden as free agents. Not in the first round.

this is a bad analogy. John Madden was converted to a checker from a scorer (who scored 17 points in his draft year) after he was signed. Mike Peca was a late bloomer.

people also don't seem to realize the attention Kesler got because of his international play. he's always raised his level of play in clutch situations and that goes beyond value to scouts.

I also really hate the Linden comparisons. Linden was a first line forward, who easily could have been the #1 overall pick. It's an insult to compare him to Kesler, and it's done only because of superficial things like the way he looks when he skates.

people compare him to a current Linden moreso than the Linden of old.

 

[leafaholix*]

Leafaholix IMO Your being way off base here with Stajan and Kesler. I think you saw one game of the two and just want to base your opinions on the two from just that game.

I much rather Have Kesler on my team then Stajan, I think Kesler and Stajan well produce similary but Kesler is a better player defensively, brings size that Stajan can't ect.

I by no means am a Stajan basher, Leafs stole one from the rest of the AHL there, but I'm one of Keslers biggest fans, and just watch last years WJC's for more proof how important he is to a team.

I've seen Kesler three times this season, tomorrow will be the fourth game I think, it may be 2+tomorrow=3, as well as a bunch of times last season... so I'm not basing it on one game.

As for the rest of the thread, it's not worth conversing with someone (J=N) that doesn't have the gonads to stand up and answer andora's question.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

I've seen Kesler three times this season, tomorrow will be the fourth game I think, it may be 2+tomorrow=3, as well as a bunch of times last season... so I'm not basing it on one game.

As for the rest of the thread, it's not worth conversing with someone (J=N) that doesn't have the gonads to stand up and answer andora's question.

Ahh, well I was just confused because Kesler has hands, but he has no dangle...I never see him really coughing the puck over or loosing it in his feet...he's just not flashy and can't deke threw anyone that's for sure, but he has hands.

 

[ZombieMatt]

That's what I don't understand. Hapless claims that Kesler has "no hands". I agree Kesler is not a flashy prospect. He's not going to bust out more than 25 goals more than maybe once or twice if he's very fortunate.

That said, he is EXTREMELY competant with the puck. Just because one does not have great dekes doesn't mean he has no hands. That's just ridiculous.

I agree, Steen > Kesler (to get back into that foolish Top 50 debate that went on and on), and heck right now, I'll give Stajan > Kesler. He is the type of prospect who will go under appreciated and the type of player that people won't credit as a good player until he's 26-27 probably.

However, after watching Kesler at the NHL and AHL level to say he has "no hands" is, I'm sorry, but outright wrong. I am not the type to say that often, but here, it really needs to be pointed out. Kesler is EXTREMELY sure handed. He can carry the puck through teh zone at top speed, he handles all reasonable passes. Just because a man isn't a wizard with the puck doesn't mean he has hands of stone.

 

[leafaholix*]

Ahh, well I was just confused because Kesler has hands, but he has no dangle...I never see him really coughing the puck over or loosing it in his feet...he's just not flashy and can't deke threw anyone that's for sure, but he has hands.

To take Kesler's upside and offense over Stajan's goes to show something's wrong... either you're Ryan Kesler's bestest friend or you haven't seen Matthew Stajan play much.

 

[Mizral]

Sorry Messy, I think you bit off more than you could chew. I think Jovo=Norris' statistical evidence takes out your 'Kesler couldn't score as much as Madden' theory.

In regards to Kesler's offensive game, I agree with Matt McInnis that Kesler is actually quite adept with the puck overall. His most glaring lack of offensive ability is not shooting (he's got a terrific wrist shot, albiet a little inaccurate.. it's very powerful), his skating is tremendous, and his hands are not really an issue I don't think. His problem I think is that he doesn't really 'see' a lot of the big plays that more top prospects might. Does this mean he won't score? Not at all. Scott Mellanby has made a career of scoring garbage goals, there is no telling how much Kesler scores until his status in the organization is fleshed out a bit more. Nobody thought Matt Cooke would ever see the light of day beyond a teams' 4th line, but he was on the Canucks 1st line in the playoffs (albiet only because of a suspension).

I suspect Kesler will end up being a lot like John Madden. The comparisons there are endless. In fact, Kesler's upside has a slight edge given the size difference.

I also wanted to take issue with The Messenger's comments about Kesler not ever being a physical player. This is really silly, in every game I've seen him play, he's showed signs of being active physically. He was very strong on the puck against Hamilton (1st star of the game) earlier this year, and his speed and size helped him make some tremendous hits the year previous in a Canucks uniform. Almost every 19/20 year old will not look very physical in the AHL/NHL, and Kesler is no doubt going to take a little longer to fully physically mature. But to say he's not ever going to be a physical player to me is just absolutely wild - his physical play I think will be a huge part of his game.

 

[Mess]

Sorry Messy, I think you bit off more than you could chew. I think Jovo=Norris' statistical evidence takes out your 'Kesler couldn't score as much as Madden' theory.

In regards to Kesler's offensive game, I agree with Matt McInnis that Kesler is actually quite adept with the puck overall. His most glaring lack of offensive ability is not shooting (he's got a terrific wrist shot, albiet a little inaccurate.. it's very powerful), his skating is tremendous, and his hands are not really an issue I don't think. His problem I think is that he doesn't really 'see' a lot of the big plays that more top prospects might. Does this mean he won't score? Not at all. Scott Mellanby has made a career of scoring garbage goals, there is no telling how much Kesler scores until his status in the organization is fleshed out a bit more. Nobody thought Matt Cooke would ever see the light of day beyond a teams' 4th line, but he was on the Canucks 1st line in the playoffs (albiet only because of a suspension).

I suspect Kesler will end up being a lot like John Madden. The comparisons there are endless. In fact, Kesler's upside has a slight edge given the size difference.

I also wanted to take issue with The Messenger's comments about Kesler not ever being a physical player. This is really silly, in every game I've seen him play, he's showed signs of being active physically. He was very strong on the puck against Hamilton (1st star of the game) earlier this year, and his speed and size helped him make some tremendous hits the year previous in a Canucks uniform. Almost every 19/20 year old will not look very physical in the AHL/NHL, and Kesler is no doubt going to take a little longer to fully physically mature. But to say he's not ever going to be a physical player to me is just absolutely wild - his physical play I think will be a huge part of his game.

First agreeing with anything "Jovo=Norris" says right there puts you at a huge disadvantange and I suggest you rethink that stance and strategy

Did you get a chance to see him play last Wednesday ..He is again on Rogers Sportsnet on Friday .. I suggest you watch and keep a close eye on him ..

I never even said anything negative about him... but that his RESUME to date does not have a whole lot of offense to declare at any level .. That is a fact if you think I am wrong just look .. 11 goals as a college player , 2 in the NHL , and 3 last year and 6 this year in the AHL in 50 games ... and only 5 in the USHL (High School and only played 13 games that year ..) That is pretty raw ... In his greatest development years as both a man and a player now dating back to 2001-02 .. he has played so few games and had little time to adjust .. All, that may come back to haunt him .. Again facts .. No projections here .. Add them up and that is 27 total league goals in 4 different leagues over a 4+ year span .. How that will equate to the people believing he is a 20+ NHL scorer regularly I am not sure ..certainly the evidence or track record is not there to back it up ..

Also you Canuck fans here are calling and comparing him favourable to John Madden .. and in my opinion while his style based on speed and defensive awareness certainly has some similarities ...but so do many other players and lets not forget Madden is considered one of the best 2-way forwards in the NHL .. as the NHL has acknowledge that in its Trophy consideration ... but anything else than a style comparison IMO needs to be toned down and be a little more Humble.. because based on what he has done so far literally he could not carry Madden jock strap yet ... whether he ever reaches those accomplishments time will tell, and very few accomplished players have done it, so it certainly comes with no Guarantees ..

Also as I pointed out it took Madden 4 years of College and 2 more full in the AHL with NJ in a strong development system .. to even make the NHL ... Many Canuck fans feel Kesler already belongs in the NHL ...and has never put in the development time yet ... many a good prospect has been ruined and had his development stunted by being rushed to fast to a level above his abilities .. Sure he has NHL speed and putting on some weight and muscle over the summer has not hurt to think he can skate out there in the NHL .. but what can he accomplish ..

The TSN site lists his potential as a 3rd line center .. and there is nothing wrong with that .. as a useful and important part of a team .. and since they are a professional organization certainly their opinion should carry some weight .. Also even if you look at the Depth chart in Vancouver .. No need to think Morrison or Sedin are going anywhere soon .. so that puts in the 3rd centre position unless they make him a winger in Vancouver .. and that also means he needs to beat out the more established Chubarov.. So he could start on the 4th line and become a checker and PK player.. with limited PP time and some times even less ice time then the top 2 lines depending on the situation, opponent and scores at times .. So under those conditions a young player is going to develop into a solid offensive game is going to be difficult.. thus the more likelihood that his defensive game is the one that gets more work ..

Also I didn't ever call Kesler a soft player in my post just that he is not a physical one ... there are many players in the NHL that have size but do not play big and or have reputations as Power Forwards who also as a result are often in Fights as a result of that style .... Kesler is not a physical player by definition or play .. If you review his HF profile or McKeens one you will find no mention of anything like that stressing that as part of his game ... that doesn't mean that he is running around afraid of breaking a nail .. just that he is more inclined to use his size more for puck protection and towards a SHUT DOWN style then throwing earth shattering body checks or being that energy role like a Brendan Morrow plays ..that's not a bad thing again .. No single player does everything well .. not even the Franchise ALL-STAR types ..

So bottom line Kesler is young and awfully raw still and what he becomes is still to be determined ... but like everything in LIFE if people set too lofty goals and expectations they are often disappointed when that does not happen, which we can admit is possible as of today.. ..

The way I see it is that Kesler is a safe prospect but not a HIGH END one in that the players on HF top 50 List have far more of a Boom or Bust Feel at the Moment the big Anthony Stewarts and Jeff Carters and Thomas Vanek's have done in the Juniors and are expected to do more at the NHL in an offensive capacity ... but they also are not really all suited for 3rd and 4th line players, possibly with the exception of Stewart from my above examples .. They will be on the TOP 2 LINES or not in the NHL at all because of that, and lacking the defensive game to survive in a checking role ..

So you pick do you want a fairly safe 3rd liner and useful player that contributes to your team success, with some upside potential .. Or do you want to swing for the fences and have the next 40 goal NHL scorer but also has the opportunity to become nothing at all .. and that is how I see Kesler compared to some of the current other HF's TOP 50 players on this list, or even say Fedor Fedorov as a Canuck comparison .. Federov likely while highly skilled far more than Kesler offensively likely will never make the NHL .. Kesler will make it because of his game and I don't think people should be too fast to dismiss his contributions even if he never puts up 20 goals in an NHL season ..

 

[theo6060]

right here:



--------------



you really shouldn't state your opinion as fact.

So, let me get this straight, my saying that for what Kesler brings compared to what Stewart brings is a way of me ignoring what he does? Perhaps you should re-read that sentence, because as it stands your point makes very little sense. Are you just good at reading something that isn't there? And what's the harm in saying Kesler should be a 6.5? 7 = top 6 forward. Kesler will never score like a top 6 forward... Do I need to draw you a diagram? You have to be one of the hardest Canucks fans to ever talk to and reason with, and I have come across many living in BC.

 

[sunb]

As for the rest of the thread, it's not worth conversing with someone (J=N) that doesn't have the gonads to stand up and answer andora's question.

Conversing?
I didn't see it as "conversing" but more like "you making random biased points up and other posters correcting your every post."

 

[Mess]

And you would know, considering 80% of what you have posted in this thread have been contradicted by facts from other posters!
Well, you've heard the man: "The Messenger always knows!"

When you have graduated High School look me up again .. You will be a bit older and a whole lot wiser by that time I hope ... So every conversation is not over your head and out of your league.

 

[sunb]

First agreeing with anything "Jovo=Norris" says right there puts you at a huge disadvantange and I suggest you rethink that stance and strategy

Well I'm not sure you're in a position to make that comment considering 80% of the "stuff" you've posted in this thread has been contradicted with facts or opinions from people who have seen Kesler play.

Nonetheless you still think you're winning the debate. Ironic, considering almost every poster other than Leafaholix here disagrees with your position.

I don't think my offering you any advice will improve your ability to concoct a decent post. But if you spent 1/4 of the the time it took you to make this gigantic post and did some research on Kesler, you'd be a much more credible poster. Not saying you aren't a knowledgeable poster in other topics but it is quite obvious you've been taken to school by numerous posters here on the topic regarding Kesler.

See this as an attack or an acquising of my position. But I do see a knowledgeable poster in this post. This deviant from the poster I saw behind your initial posts.

 

[sunb]

When you have graduated High School look me up again .. You will be a bit older and a whole lot wiser by that time I hope ... So every conversation is not over your head and out of your league.

Lay off the daquiri's boy.

 

[MS]

Did you get a chance to see him play last Wednesday ..He is again on Rogers Sportsnet on Friday .. I suggest you watch and keep a close eye on him ..

I never even said anything negative about ... but that his RESUME to date does not have a whole lot of offense to declare at any level .. That is a fact if you think I am wrong just look .. 11 goals as a college player , 2 in the NHL , and 3 last year and 6 this year in the AHL in 50 games ... and only 5 in the USHL (High School and only played 13 games that year ..) That is pretty raw ... In his greatest development years as both a man and a player now dating back to 2001-02 .. he has played so few games and had little time to adjust .. All, that may come back to haunt him .. Again facts .. No projections here ..

Well there are two ways of looking at it, aren't there? I could also claim that the only time he hasn't produced at a high level was last year as a jr.-age player in the AHL.

- led US jr. team in scoring when they played a series of games against USHL teams
- scored nearly a point per game as a freshman in college
- key offensive contributor on the 2003 and 2004 US WJC squads
- 14 points in 17 games in the AHL at age 20, with no first-line or first-unit PP time

Aside from last season, when he was playing pro hockey as a physically undeveloped teenager and was in over his head most nights, he's been one of the top offensive contributors whereever he's been in the last several years.

 

[leafaholix*]

Comparison time.

Ryan Kesler at his peak = Present day Keith Primeau.