Ryan Kesler potential?

[sunb]

Have you seen him play at all? Ryan Kesler's not very smooth with the puck. He has a good shot and great positioning, that's the way he'll produce at the NHL level.

Btw, I think andora's waiting on your response...

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=2123783#post2123783

I don't think you have seen Kesler at all.
Thats probably one of the most uneducated comments I have heard about Kesler... Maybe second to your saying he has "no hands" and "no offense".

You make a dumb comment after one another and make no attempt to admit that you made a mistake. Take responsibility for what you say instead of accusing Kesler of this, then attacking another facet of Kesler's game when it is proven that you are wrong in you first comment. You seem to think nature works only one-way; everything Kesler does is due to luck and his teammates while everything Stajan does means he is proven and everything he hasn't done is due to bad-luck.

Kesler is the 18th leading scorer in the AHL scoring 6 goals and 14 points in a defensive role, beating out Matt Stajan offensively and yet you still somehow believe that Kesler is benefitting mysteriously from King and Sarno (who don't even play on his line).

You think Kesler has a good shot and good positioning? It seems to me you haven't seen enough of Kesler at all. If anything, his shot is weak as it is terribly inaccurate and his positioning is mediocre. From a person who has seen Kesler, I can tell you his biggest asset is his skating. He has great speed and an excellent stride. Skates effortlessly and he is fairly smooth with or without the puck. Like I said, I think you should stop making crap up if you have no idea who Kesler is.

And Andora and you still want an answer with the age thing? I can tell you that I am not going to beat a dead horse and it is a fact that Kesler is younger than Steen. If you guys don't believe it, it is ok. I stand by the facts. PS. Kesler is also younger than Stajan.

 

[sunb]

Except Matt Stajan has a lot more offensive abilities.

Just watching them play against one-another last night, Stajan was one of the most dangerous offensive players on the ice. He's gotten so much bigger and stronger than last season, Stajan's easily the better player.

And was that why Stajan registered 0 points and Kesler scored 1?

Stop attributing these phantom qualities to Stajan when it is evident Kesler has been the better player in the AHL this year.

I can admit that Stajan was much better Kesler in the NHL last year but this year in the AHL, Kesler has been everything the Moose has asked of him and much much more.

 

[LaVal]

When did I ignore the other facets of Kesler's game?

right here:

For what he brings, Vancouver was stupid to take him over Anthony Stewart. They'll have a hard time living that one down for a long time when Stewart reaches offensive totals Kesler could never get.

--------------

Which, by the way, he should be a 6.5 on HF since he'll never put up second line points no matter how hard he works.

you really shouldn't state your opinion as fact.

 

[Mess]

And was that why Stajan registered 0 points and Kesler scored 1?.

Are you serious ??... a one game winner takes all deductive reasoning on your part .. Yikes !!! ..... are you ever naive when it comes to prospects and development ..

 

[sunb]

Are you serious ??... a one game winner takes all deductive reasoning on your part .. Yikes !!! ..... are you ever naive when it comes to prospects and development ..

Do you read?
Or even try to?

I was simply replying to Leafaholix's post in which he said Stajan was better offensively in the St. John's vs Manitoba game last night. My post responded to his telling him that Kesler scored a goal while Stajan was shutout. But apparently you seemed to have gathered much more from my post than I intended.

Thanks for coming out. Good bye.

 

[Shane]

None of you know what you're talking about, and you know why? Two pages on Kesler, and not a SINGLE mention of his skating ability? The guy is, night in and night out, one of the, if not THE SMOOTHEST SKATER on the ice. And he's tremendously fast for a big guy as well. Outside of Koltsov, he's probably the fastest skater for the Moose.

 

[sunb]

None of you know what you're talking about, and you know why? Two pages on Kesler, and not a SINGLE mention of his skating ability? The guy is, night in and night out, one of the, if not THE SMOOTHEST SKATER on the ice. And he's tremendously fast for a big guy as well. Outside of Koltsov, he's probably the fastest skater for the Moose.

I said this about this skating a couple of posts ago:

"I can tell you his biggest asset is his skating. He has great speed and an excellent stride. Skates effortlessly and he is fairly smooth with or without the puck."

 

[Shane]

I said this about this skating a couple of posts ago:

"I can tell you his biggest asset is his skating. He has great speed and an excellent stride. Skates effortlessly and he is fairly smooth with or without the puck."

Whoops, skimmed over that.

 

[Jacob]

how valuable are guys like John Madden, Mike Peca, etc to their team? his upside is different from that of most prospects, but doesn't mean it's any less valuable. that's why it's stupid when he's compared to an offensive prospect and people say they'd take the offensive prospect because Kesler's only projected to be a 3rd liner. how many hit or miss 2nd line scoring prospects are there compared to sure-fire heart and soul 2-way checkers?

It seems that guys like Kesler/Chipchura/Stone/Nystrom/Paille are a dime a dozen these days.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Why did a few Leaf fans have to come in here and make this a Kesler vs Stajan debate? Make another thread if you want to do that. So many of these thread get side tracked by "so and so is better then so and so" debates which usually have nothing to do with what the person who started the topic wanted to discuss. It just creates 30 page thread of jibberish without solving anything, it just waists people's time. If I started a thread on Koltsov, I'm sure it would somehow end up being a "Koltsov vs Coliacovo" debate.

 

[PecaFan]

how valuable are guys like John Madden, Mike Peca, etc to their team? his upside is different from that of most prospects, but doesn't mean it's any less valuable.

I agree you need those guys. Where I've always had the problem with Kesler was with him being taken 23rd, with better prospects on the board still. On draft day I posted I would have taken Stewart or O'Sullivan, others suggested Richards or Tambellini, I think that's still looking pretty good.

Taking a third line checker over a first line scorer is inexcusable, especially on a team that's bereft of offensive prospects. Well, many Canucks prospects are offensive, but not in the hockey sense of the word. ;:

You take guys like Peca 40th overall, or guys like Madden as free agents. Not in the first round.

I also really hate the Linden comparisons. Linden was a first line forward, who easily could have been the #1 overall pick. It's an insult to compare him to Kesler, and it's done only because of superficial things like the way he looks when he skates.

 

[sunb]

It seems that guys like Kesler/Chipchura/Stone/Nystrom/Paille are a dime a dozen these days.

I think the players in the mold of Kesler and Chipchura are a dime a dozen these days and I could list Nathan Smith, Brandon Nolan, etc as being a poor man's version of Ryan Kesler and a bankrupt man's version of Mike Peca, Jere Lehtinen and John Madden imo.

But unlike the other potential 3rd-4th line grubbers, Kesler, Chipchura and Higgins are on an another level compared to other guys, who may make the NHL as 3rd-4th liners in their wildest dreams.

It is like comparing Ovechkin to Schremp. Both are potential 1st liners but one is significantly better than the other. Everything is a dime a dozen these days, but there are gems and there are... well... the others.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Leafaholix IMO Your being way off base here with Stajan and Kesler. I think you saw one game of the two and just want to base your opinions on the two from just that game.

I much rather Have Kesler on my team then Stajan, I think Kesler and Stajan well produce similary but Kesler is a better player defensively, brings size that Stajan can't ect.

I by no means am a Stajan basher, Leafs stole one from the rest of the AHL there, but I'm one of Keslers biggest fans, and just watch last years WJC's for more proof how important he is to a team.

 

[Mess]

Do you read?
Or even try to?

I was simply replying to Leafaholix's post in which he said Stajan was better offensively in the St. John's vs Manitoba game last night. My post responded to his telling him that Kesler scored a goal while Stajan was shutout. But apparently you seemed to have gathered much more from my post than I intended.

Thanks for coming out. Good bye.

What are you on man ?? .....

Here is the Boxscore from last night game ..

http://www.theahl.com/AHLBoxscores0405/139419.html

Kesler never scored a goal first of all so you are just making things up ..

Baumgartner, Burrows, Beiksa and Goren scored for the Moose last night ... And you are asking me if I read .. In fact I even watched it ..

and second the point is you can't base anything on one game stats wise (which is my point) ... I could give you scoresheet were Kovalchuk was held scoreless and a defensive dman scored ... Does that prove or disprove your silly point that one player is MORE OFFENSIVE than another based on that one game..

So by our silly logic all Moose scorers based on last nights game are more offensive than Jason King , Peter Sarno etc ..because they didn't score last night either ..

Yikes ... You are way out to Lunch ....

 

[sunb]

What are you on man ?? .....

Here is the Boxscore from last night game ..

http://www.theahl.com/AHLBoxscores0405/139419.html

Kesler never scored a goal first of all so you are just making things up ..

Baumgartner, Burrows, Beiksa and Goren scored for the Moose last night ... And you are asking me if I read .. In fact I even watched it ..

and second the point is you can't base anything on one game stats wise (which is my point) ... I could give you scoresheet were Kovalchuk was held scoreless and a defensive dman scored ... Does that prove or disprove your silly point that one player is MORE OFFENSIVE than another based on that one game..

So by our silly logic all Moose scorers based on last nights game are more offensive than Jason King , Peter Sarno etc ..because they didn't score last night either ..

Yikes ... You are way out to Lunch ....

Ryan Kesler scored a point, not a goal. Typo on my part.

Your second point serves as good argument for Kesler considering he has outscored Matt Stajan this season.


And I still don't think you understand that my post meant nothing as to indicate Kesler and Stajan's overall abilities. I read Leafaholix's post that basically wrote "Stajan was offensively domiant in last night's game" and I replied by saying "Hey man, what are you talking about? Kesler scored and Steen didn't. You are wrong man."

I don't know what silly logic I am using considering I wasn't even trying to make a point about Kesler or Stajan'soverall game. I made a comment about their game last night, thats the long and the short of it. Stop the hissy-fit, please.

I hope you understand now and can continue with your lunch.

 

[Mess]

Leafaholix IMO Your being way off base here with Stajan and Kesler. I think you saw one game of the two and just want to base your opinions on the two from just that game.

I much rather Have Kesler on my team then Stajan, I think Kesler and Stajan well produce similary but Kesler is a better player defensively, brings size that Stajan can't ect.

Does last years NHL results for the two players count for anything ???

Why does everyone keep pointing to 1 single AHL game .. The teams play again on Friday at least do a 2 game indepth analysis if you want to base entire theory on that ..

Size ... Kelser will never be described as a Physical player so I am not sure Size matters here ... maybe in 1-1 battles for a loose puck .. but if you are not throwing bodychecks around what does it matter if you are 220 or 200 lbs ??...

 

[sunb]

Does last years NHL results for the two players count for anything ???

Why does everyone keep pointing to 1 single AHL game .. The teams play again on Friday at least do a 2 game indepth analysis if you want to base entire theory on that ..

Size ... Kelser will never be described as a Physical player so I am not sure Size matters here ... maybe in 1-1 battles for a loose puck .. but if you are not throwing bodychecks around what does it matter if you are 220 or 200 lbs ??...

X-Sharkie wasn't basing his opinions on one single AHL game. He was responding to Leafaholix's opinions on the one single AHL game Leafaholix saw.

I think you have some reading comprehension issues.

Either that, or you like commenting on Leafaholix's mistakes while quoting other people's posts.

 

[Postman]

Size ... Kelser will never be described as a Physical player so I am not sure Size matters here ... maybe in 1-1 battles for a loose puck .. but if you are not throwing bodychecks around what does it matter if you are 220 or 200 lbs ??...

Size is good for more than just throwing body checks, ya know. Kesler is very strong and he knows how to use his size to his advantage both offensively and defensively.

So yes, size IS a factor.

 

[Mess]

Ryan Kesler scored a point, not a goal. Typo on my part.

Your second point serves as good argument for Kesler considering he has outscored Matt Stajan this season.


And I still don't think you understand that my post meant nothing as to indicate Kesler and Stajan's overall abilities. I read Leafaholix's post that basically wrote "Stajan was offensively domiant in last night's game" and I replied by saying "Hey man, what are you talking about? Kesler scored and Steen didn't. You are wrong man."

I don't know what silly logic I am using considering I wasn't even trying to make a point about Kesler or Stajan'soverall game. I made a comment about their game last night, thats the long and the short of it. Stop the hissy-fit, please.

I hope you understand now and can continue with your lunch.

Oh I see Kesler got a point last night ... Thats why he is better offensively ?? Got It

Did Wade Flaherty's strong goaltending factor into your lame brain theory or the fact he happen to stop all 5 of Stajan shots on net ...

Did you happen to catch that the first star of the game was Wade Flaherty who made 36 saves, and he even got an assit on Goren's goal making him just as offensive as Kesler on the night ....

Conclusion : Kelser offense was = to a 35 year old journeyman Goalie on the Night .. but I'm giving the tie to Flaherty because he is a goalie after all and he was the 1st Star ..

 

[Chaos]

Conclusion : Kelser offense was = to his Goalies on the Night .. but I'm giving the tie to Flaherty because he is a goalie after all and he was the 1st Star ..

:lol

 

[Mess]

Size is good for more than just throwing body checks, ya know. Kesler is very strong and he knows how to use his size to his advantage both offensively and defensively.

So yes, size IS a factor.

But does that make him better ??? Using your size to shield the puck ..

What do you think I meant by "maybe in 1-1 battles for a loose puck"

The reason 3rd and 4th line players make the NHL is because of their size and abilty to be checkers and grinders and PKers and energy guys.. but does that make them better players than top line players that produce offensively .. ??

Are you not saying then that Teams would select Keith Primeau over other more offensive but smaller players because he uses his size to his advantage .

and in Kesler's case .. If you review his statistics at all levels .. he has produced very little offensively particulary goals .. So what makes people think that now when he gets to highest level of hockey he will ?? Sure he may be a good player ..but these Top XXX lists are based on potential and if you are a 3rd line Role Player does that make you a good player??

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=67780

 

[sunb]

Oh I see Kesler got a point last night ... Thats why he is better offensively ?? Got It

Did Wade Flaherty's strong goaltending factor into your lame brain theory or the fact he happen to stop all 5 of Stajan shots on net ...

Did you happen to catch that the first star of the game was Wade Flaherty who made 36 saves, and he even got an assit on Goren's goal making him just as offensive as Kesler on the night ....

Conclusion : Kelser offense was = to a 35 year old journeyman Goalie on the Night .. but I'm giving the tie to Flaherty because he is a goalie after all and he was the 1st Star ..

A blind man walks into a bar, he says to the guy who sits next to him, "Hey man, wanna hear a blonde joke?" The man next to him says, "Buddy, I'm a 400 pound professional wrestler and I'm blonde. My friend next to me is a firefighter who've I've seen bench 300 pounds and he's blonde. The boucer outside is also blonde. The guy on the other side of you is easily 6'4'' and he is also blonde. You still wanna tell that blonde joke?"
The blind man thinks for a sec and says "No, no man.... I wouldn't wanna explain it five times."

I don't know what the point of this story is but I do know that I've explain the same point to you three times already. And like the blind man I am not going to do it five times.

Last time for the kid out there.
Leafaholix comment game "Stajan > Kesler offensively in game"
I comment to Leafaholix "No, Kesler = 1 point in game, Stajan = 0"
I wasn't trying to comment on the player Stajan is or the player Kesler is. I wasn't describing their overall game and their complete abilities. I made a comment about their play in one game. I don't think you "got it."

And btw, you spelt Kesler's name wrong. It isn't Kelser.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Name me another 6-3 20 year old that skates like the wind, scores at almost a point-a-game while facing the other team's top scoring lines, and is a +9, and with this type of maturity (in the AHL)? Seriously.

Kesler was drafted as a defensive player, but that's because he played behind Steckel and Umberger at Ohio state and only played 1 year there before moving on. People saying Kesler has no offence are hockey idiots. It is as simple as that. He hasn't had a chance to develop any offence yet, in any league. He has more points already this year than most of his season in the AHL.

He may not score 50 goals, but this is a guy that will be very valuable to the Canucks in the future. I think of a young Rod Brind'Amour when I see Kesler. He is severly underrated here. Which isn't surprising because people here can't see past their own prospects for some reason. I'm not saying Kesler is a top 10 prospect, but he is as "blue-chip" as they come.

 

[Postman]

But does that make him better ??? Using your size to shield the puck ..

What do you think I meant by "maybe in 1-1 battles for a loose puck"

I don't know, after you said that, you pretty much went on to discount his size. It is a big factor in his game and you cannot say it doesn't matter.

Are you not saying then that Teams would select Keith Primeau over other more offensive but smaller players because he uses his size to his advantage .

Did I say that? Please, show me where I hinted at that?

What in the hell posseses you to try and stick words in my mouth? I'm not trying to get into this ridiculous Stajan vs. Kesler argument, I simply stated you can't pass his size off as a non-factor just because he doesn't go around slamming people left and right. His size, along with his skating, are two big parts of his game.

 

[sunb]

but these Top XXX lists are based on ...

Sorry to disapoint you man but this isn't a forum for the "Top XXX lists" even though we all know there just as well should be.

This is a forum that discusses the Top 50 Hockey Prospects List and hockey among other things.