Injury Report: Ryan Ellis: Sept 22, 2022 update: potential career-ending injury, out indefinitely; torn muscle from spine to hip

[JojoTheWhale]

Don't mean to be dense, can someone explain LTIR? It is my understanding that the Flyers would need to be cap compliant on Day 1 of the season, with Ellis included in the cap calc. They can then move him to LTIR and use his cap space. They can then sign or trade for someone who is worth $6MM for one year (and hopefully Ellis does not recover during the year). LTIR only seems like a good option when you are near the end of the year and in playoff contention.... Side bar issue - anyone worth$6MM is most likely going to be long gone by day 1 of the season....

Yeah, it's fairly obtuse. It's less beneficial to start the year using LTIR, so that's why you see teams try to avoid it.

The simplified version is that if you start cap compliant on Day 1 and then use LTIR, your LTIR pool is the full amount for that player. If you start the year using LTIR to get cap compliant, your LTIR pool is only the amount by which you exceeded the cap.

In order to use offseason LTIR, you still have to prove the 10 Game AND 24 day thresholds missed time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Somehow TB has survived.

They're well managed. The Flyers arent.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

With Duncan Keith retiring, the Hawks are being hit with a seven million dollar recapture penalty since the contract was back loaded. If Ellis would retire, which seems to be a distinct possibility since he isn't going to be able to play with a degenerative hip injury, would the Flyers get off of the hook for some of his costs and Nashville be responsible for a recapture penalty? In 19-20 he signed an eight year extension for $50M. The first season saw him with a $700K base salary and a total salary for the year of $7,700,000.

Keith got hit with recapture penalty since his contract was pre-2013 CBA. It was one of those heavily front loaded deals similar to Parise, Suter, Richards, Weber, etc.

Keith signed a 13 year deal for $72M back in 2009. He retired with the last year left where he was set to get $1.5M.

Ellis’ deal was post-2013 CBA so it was legal in that sense. Ellis has $29.3M of contract salary left on his deal ($50M for 8 year deal).

He’s not retiring & walking away from that money any time soon. It’s not some big ruse or conspiracy theory. The guy is legitimately hurt. He’s trying to rehab to come back. That’s his goal/mindset & same with the team. Now whether any of that happens is anybody’s guess.

If Ellis never plays again his situation would be similar to Nathan Horton who got a career ending injury but stayed active on the books so he could get paid. i believe his contract wasn’t even insured either so Columbus was on the hook for it which eventually led to their trade for David Clarkson who in a similar situation but his contract was insured.

 

[HexyClarke]

I know friends of mine who hated the jvr contract from the get go. But really hated the length as it ended 1 year AFTER the giroux contract expired. They were spot on.

 

[renberg]

Keith got hit with recapture penalty since his contract was pre-2013 CBA. It was one of those heavily front loaded deals similar to Parise, Suter, Richards, Weber, etc.

Keith signed a 13 year deal for $72M back in 2009. He retired with the last year left where he was set to get $1.5M.

Ellis’ deal was post-2013 CBA so it was legal in that sense. Ellis has $29.3M of contract salary left on his deal ($50M for 8 year deal).

He’s not retiring & walking away from that money any time soon. It’s not some big ruse or conspiracy theory. The guy is legitimately hurt. He’s trying to rehab to come back. That’s his goal/mindset & same with the team. Now whether any of that happens is anybody’s guess.

If Ellis never plays again his situation would be similar to Nathan Horton who got a career ending injury but stayed active on the books so he could get paid. i believe his contract wasn’t even insured either so Columbus was on the hook for it which eventually led to their trade for David Clarkson who in a similar situation but his contract was insured.

Thanks for the response

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The league has protocols setup for for third party independent doctors to perform a physical if one feels the other is being disingenuous with their situation.

Friedman talked about this on his podcast before. I think it was when Hossa retired. But even teams from the outside can potentially invoke this too. He said it happened back in the day with the Flyers actually. Opposing teams wanted third party independent doctor’s to perform physicals on Hatcher & Rathje. So the NHL made it happen & that was the end of it as it wasn’t some ruse.

 

[Curufinwe]

With Duncan Keith retiring, the Hawks are being hit with a seven million dollar recapture penalty since the contract was back loaded. If Ellis would retire, which seems to be a distinct possibility since he isn't going to be able to play with a degenerative hip injury, would the Flyers get off of the hook for some of his costs and Nashville be responsible for a recapture penalty?

No

Recapture penalties only applied to very long contracts signed before the new CBA in 2013.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ellis’ injury is devastating. So little is known about the psoas muscle and given its location, it is largely inaccessible to surgically repair. His hip and hip adductors are also ailing, according to Fletcher. It took a long time last season to properly identify and diagnose the injury. Ellis is believed to have undergone exploratory procedures in an attempt to find relief, as the torn psoas muscle has had a significant impact on his ability to live a normal life away from the rink.

 

[renberg]

There’s no way anyone can convince me that these issues suddenly showed up in the fall of ‘21. Nashville knew about this to some degree and Fletcher didn’t do his job to check out Ellis physical condition. Perhaps the two franchises were winking at each other swapping garbage in Ellis for trash in Patrick. There’s no way around the final result-the Flyers got screwed in this. One of Fletcher’s several moves that have greased the skids for this franchise.

 

[deadhead]

There’s no way anyone can convince me that these issues suddenly showed up in the fall of ‘21. Nashville knew about this to some degree and Fletcher didn’t do his job to check out Ellis physical condition. Perhaps the two franchises were winking at each other swapping garbage in Ellis for trash in Patrick. There’s no way around the final result-the Flyers got screwed in this. One of Fletcher’s several moves that have greased the skids for this franchise.

He played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs a couple months before we traded for him.
I'm sorry, but if he had anything that was that obvious, no way he could have handled that kind of workload.

Conspiracy theories are popular, but common sense rules.
Sometimes, crap happens and it's nobody's fault.

 

[renberg]

He played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs a couple months before we traded for him.
I'm sorry, but if he had anything that was that obvious, no way he could have handled that kind of workload.

Conspiracy theories are popular, but common sense rules.
Sometimes, crap happens and it's nobody's fault.

So you say. Then how do you account for the difference in health between Nashville and Philly? Five games into the season and the guy just falls apart. Ellis took no notable hits in these games or practice. No report of an off-season injury. He was damaged before he got here.

 

[dats81]

So you say. Then how do you account for the difference in health between Nashville and Philly? Five games into the season and the guy just falls apart. Ellis took no notable hits in these games or practice. No report of an off-season injury. He was damaged before he got here.

Unlikely.
Ellis was very upbeat, bonding with Provorov, assuming a leadership role on and off the ice in preseason. That's not what a player in doubt about his health would do.
If anything he was working out too hard during the offseason.