Player Discussion: Ryan Callahan

[Stammertime91]

I never said that. My argument was just because he is on a 3rd line it does not mean he is getting Ice time like a 3rd liner. Cooper still uses him in all situations and that was my point to why he is still very valuable to this team. Not saying he is more valuable than Drouin or Kucherov unless it's a certain situation like the PK .

You are Judging him on one season. Last year he hit over 50 points. Had a strong start and finish to the playoffs last year but got sick in the middle. Since we are talking about production he put it up in the SCF the biggest stage on the NHL, so he certainly earned points for that. He is in the bottom 6 now , so you cannot expect much offense from him, but still does everything else. Look at Palat and Flip who have nearly the same amount of points as him. How do you justify that? They have been playing with our more productive skilled forwards. I think Cally has been outplaying Palat and Flip. They are the ones who have been invisible. Do you really think our 2nd line has been lights out? Our 3rd line has come through the same production, maybe even more in the last series. Including a clutch goal in the 1st period and assisting on another game winner.

flip is debatable but you seriously think Palat, who is also killing penalties, is being outplayed by Callahan? Huh?

I agree with what you said about this year and I don't think he's bringing us down but at the same time he isn't necessarily killing it offensively. With that contract he needs to be doing both and most of the times he's just doing well defensively and like every 5 games he provides a spark offensively. He was great last year but this year he's been inconsistent. Remove all talks of contracts and he's essentially a typical 3rd or 4th liner that kills penalties and provides 1 goal every now and then. A player of his profile, still contract aside, that's not good enough.

Callahan and Drouin have different roles so it's unfair to both to compare, but Palat and Flip have both provided as much offensively and defensively, so how you're saying a center who is shutting down top players and winning face offs like a mad man, and Palat, are both being outplayed by Callahan is absurd. If anything, as a whole, they are on the same level and even then I'm not stooping down to say Callahan has played as well as Palat, not a chance.

 

[DFC]

I never said that. My argument was just because he is on a 3rd line it does not mean he is getting Ice time like a 3rd liner. Cooper still uses him in all situations and that was my point to why he is still very valuable to this team. Not saying he is more valuable than Drouin or Kucherov unless it's a certain situation like the PK .

You are Judging him on one season. Last year he hit over 50 points. Had a strong start and finish to the playoffs last year but got sick in the middle. Since we are talking about production he put it up in the SCF the biggest stage on the NHL, so he certainly earned points for that. He is in the bottom 6 now , so you cannot expect much offense from him, but still does everything else. Look at Palat and Flip who have nearly the same amount of points as him. How do you justify that? They have been playing with our more productive skilled forwards. I think Cally has been outplaying Palat and Flip. They are the ones who have been invisible. Do you really think our 2nd line has been lights out? Our 3rd line has come through the same production, maybe even more in the last series. Including a clutch goal in the 1st period and assisting on another game winner.

You are single-handedly turning this fanbase against Ryan Callahan with flimsy arguments like this.

Claiming that every goal is clutch and that every time he's on the ice for a goal he has some sort of huge impact is just making the flaws in his game more obvious to those of us who don't view him as Holy and Sacred.

flip is debatable but you seriously think Palat, who is also killing penalties, is being outplayed by Callahan? Huh?

I agree with what you said about this year and I don't think he's bringing us down but at the same time he isn't necessarily killing it offensively. With that contract he needs to be doing both and most of the times he's just doing well defensively and like every 5 games he provides a spark offensively. He was great last year but this year he's been inconsistent. Remove all talks of contracts and he's essentially a typical 3rd or 4th liner that kills penalties and provides 1 goal every now and then. A player of his profile, still contract aside, that's not good enough.

Callahan and Drouin have different roles so it's unfair to both to compare, but Palat and Flip have both provided as much offensively and defensively, so how you're saying a center who is shutting down top players and winning face offs like a mad man, and Palat, are both being outplayed by Callahan is absurd. If anything, as a whole, they are on the same level and even then I'm not stooping down to say Callahan has played as well as Palat, not a chance.

I don't think it's debatable between Flip and Cally either. I don't even think Cally's been bad in these playoffs, but Flip has been better. Bringing up Palat is just crazy. When Palat goes ice cold, he's basically as effective as your mean-average Ryan Callahan. Right now Palat's not producing much offensively, but he's still our best defensive forward. And he was so good in last year's playoffs that he gets the benefit of some doubts that Callahan simply has not earned yet.

Scoring 54 points while playing 1st minutes with the league's #1 offense does not give you a pass on following it up with a bad year. Single-handedly carrying the team through a playoff series or two will get you those kinds of passes.

 

[Stammertime91]

You are single-handedly turning this fanbase against Ryan Callahan with flimsy arguments like this.

Claiming that every goal is clutch and that every time he's on the ice for a goal he has some sort of huge impact is just making the flaws in his game more obvious to those of us who don't view him as Holy and Sacred.




I don't think it's debatable between Flip and Cally either. I don't even think Cally's been bad in these playoffs, but Flip has been better. Bringing up Palat is just crazy. When Palat goes ice cold, he's basically as effective as your mean-average Ryan Callahan. Right now Palat's not producing much offensively, but he's still our best defensive forward. And he was so good in last year's playoffs that he gets the benefit of some doubts that Callahan simply has not earned yet.

Scoring 54 points while playing 1st minutes with the league's #1 offense does not give you a pass on following it up with a bad year. Single-handedly carrying the team through a playoff series or two will get you those kinds of passes.

I agree, I was trying to be reallllllly nice to Callahan and harsh on flip when looking at their numbers individually but yes, flip and Dr drej have both been better than Callahan.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'll keep it simple, what Ryan Callahan brings is easily replaceable. What Steven Stamkos brings isn't easily replaceable. Stamkos is much harder to replace but mostly everyone will be happy to see him walk because of what his contract will be. Callahan can easily be replaced but can't because of his contract. No matter what excuses you come up with there's no denying his contract is a burden on our cap going forward.

 

[Stammertime91]

I'm done won't talk about Callahan anymore. If I do have a mod strike me down.

So um how about those Dolphins?

Why do you get so defensive when it's Callahan in a Callahan thread but as soon as it turns to Lundin, Meszaros, Stamkos, Konopka or anybody under the sun, it's alright? Callahan WILL be heavily criticized and watched very closely because of his contract whether you like it or not. It sucks we have to pay him that much and he gets criticized a lot but if we are going to hold Flip, Carle and Stamkos, the captain of this team, to those standards by their contract, then Callahan isn't an exception. He's actually towards the front of the line, just behind Carle and ahead of Stamkos. At least Stamkos started to pick it up and was looking like vintage Stamkos, Callahan just started looking like a really old Callahan this year lol.

I still think he will hit 40 points next year in a 20×20 season but this year, he wasn't worth it in 82 games. Playoffs is different and I think he's done well but offensively, I was hoping he'd be at 3-4 goals by now. I'm sure with some rest and a team like the Pens or caps to face, he will step it up, or at least I hope. We could use everybody stepping up and he's one of the ones I'm looking at each game.

 

[Stammertime91]

I'll keep it simple, what Ryan Callahan brings is easily replaceable. What Steven Stamkos brings isn't easily replaceable. Stamkos is much harder to replace but mostly everyone will be happy to see him walk because of what his contract will be. Callahan can easily be replaced but can't because of his contract. No matter what excuses you come up with there's no denying his contract is a burden on our cap going forward.

I agree but if we chew off another year next season off his contract, it gets easier. If he hits 20 goals, that's a win for us, sure he's still overpaid but he won't be 2015-2016 bad. That or its one less year a potential trade partner has to deal with and after seeing Mike Richards land another spot on an NHL roster, Callahan is far from that low point.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I'm done won't talk about Callahan anymore. If I do have a mod strike me down.

So um how about those Dolphins?

Wise choice. You're so tenacious sticking up for Cally it's having the polar opposite effect you're looking for. It's getting on my nerves personally despite being a Cally supporter, so I hardly believe I'm the only one being affected. There are still many different things to talk about here. We're in the ECF once again, let's kick some *****.

 

[DFC]

We all get that you have a personal tie to Callahan. And, believe it or not, we respect that (at least I think we do). But the thing is, and I genuinely mean this in a friendly way, when you defend him against any and all criticism, especially when that criticism is pretty fair, (like Green said) it has the opposite effect.

I really don't have a negative view of Cally until I see a post that cherry picks numbers to prove his worth. Then, suddenly, I'm thinking about the rest of the numbers, particularly the ones that aren't so good. I don't think that's what you want, but that's what's happening.

To be clear, I think Callahan has been effective in these playoffs. But the criticism that he hasn't lived up to his contract is fair, because he's currently, if I'm not mistaken, the third highest paid guy on the team. In a year when we're likely to lose yet another captain rather than overpay him, all those other contracts come under a microscope. Even if really Callahan is a huge catalyst for all the winning we're doing right now, and we just can't see it, the criticism IS fair. No one's attacking him personally. No one's even calling him a bad player.

And he has a whole new series ahead of him to be a difference maker, and we're going to need him to be exactly that. There's a lot of firepower on that Pittsburgh team to shutdown. Cally got well-deserved praise for shutting down Toews last year, and he'll get it again if he shuts down whichever threat Coop chooses to use him against.

The majority of us (not everyone, but I'd say 75%) were on board with signing Callahan at the time. So if it's a mistake, it's Yzerman's mistake, not Callahan's, and it's one that 75% of us have to eat. Callahan got a big contract with a good team, and that's great for him. Just like we can be happy for Stamkos, we can be happy for Callahan on a personal level. He seems like a great guy.

 

[TheSchmidt]

As I said last year, Callahan could score an own goal on purpose and this dude would defend it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

1000+ posts, needs a new thread

 

[Sky04]

Dating back to the 2015 playoffs Callahan has scored:

15 goals - 27 assists - 42 points in 126 games

Absolutely brutal.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

There's something wrong with him and it's been the same for a while now. All he does is entering the zone and aim at the net from anywhere. As if he wanted to end the play and get off the ice ASAP. I'm not sure whether it's true but it feels awfully like Callahan's body is starting to betray him.

 

[DFC]

He needs to find a way to contribute. Aside from the occasional decent PK shift, he's doing nothing. Except diving, I guess.

 

[Sky04]

There's something wrong with him and it's been the same for a while now. All he does is entering the zone and aim at the net from anywhere. As if he wanted to end the play and get off the ice ASAP. I'm not sure whether it's true but it feels awfully like Callahan's body is starting to betray him.

I see the opposite, his body looks fine, he's battling, checking and got decent speed, but his offensive IQ is completely gone. Like you said he just skates in takes a 0.5 second look then fires a random shot on net from the blueline, he almost prefers NOT to have the puck at any time.

$5.8m......

 

[Maelmoor]

I really like Cally and think he is a tremendous role player, he works hard, blocks shots and seems to be a good leader.

Problem is as we all know his contract..

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I see the opposite, his body looks fine, he's battling, checking and got decent speed, but his offensive IQ is completely gone. Like you said he just skates in takes a 0.5 second look then fires a random shot on net from the blueline, he almost prefers NOT to have the puck at any time.

$5.8m......

I see him trying, he's got a lot of heart, but he already lost a step IMO, not a significant one but at this level it's a question of detail. In all honesty, I'm guessing his IQ looks worse because it takes him so much effort, physically and mentally, to be the intensity guy he was that his brains can't do both at the same time anymore. He has to accept to play a different, less demanding game and rely more on his experience. Will he though ? That's aging in a nutshell I suppose.

 

[Hoek]

He's good at screening the goalie. That's about it offensively.

 

[These Are The Days]

Dating back to the 2015 playoffs Callahan has scored:

15 goals - 27 assists - 42 points in 126 games

Absolutely brutal.

Jesus you're making it real hard for me to want to give him until about Christmas to rebound and start contributing more.

That's not just brutal that is baaaaad. That $5.8 million feels like an albatross right now

 

[DFC]

He's good at screening the goalie. That's about it offensively.

I don't even believe that's true. It's rare that a Callahan screen leads to a goal. I know this because every time it's happened, it's been pointed out at length, so I remember all of them.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Maybe his goal last night is his breakthrough!

 

[dechire]

I don't know why you're including the whole stretch of games when we know he was playing injured. Surprise people with hip problems don't play very well. Just judging him on this season he's been a lot better. The only reason to focus on last year is because you want to **** on him and I'm not into that.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

i don't know why you're including the whole stretch of games when we know he was playing injured. Surprise people with hip problems don't play very well. Just judging him on this season he's been a lot better. The only reason to focus on last year is because you want to **** on him and i'm not into that.

..

 

[Sky04]

I don't know why you're including the whole stretch of games when we know he was playing injured. Surprise people with hip problems don't play very well. Just judging him on this season he's been a lot better. The only reason to focus on last year is because you want to **** on him and I'm not into that.

He looks better than he did last year? based on what? he looks the exact same injured or not with the same criticisms.

Was he injured when he put up 8 points in 26 games in 2015? or his 3 points in 13 games this year? That's 11 points in 39 healthy games, or you know an even lower pace than his injury year.

Not a lot of lee-way when you're hugely underperforming and eat up nearly $6m in capspace, but yeah it's ok because he was "injured" and if he's "injured" for the remainder of his contract that makes it ok too right?

 

[DFC]

I don't know why you're including the whole stretch of games when we know he was playing injured. Surprise people with hip problems don't play very well. Just judging him on this season he's been a lot better. The only reason to focus on last year is because you want to **** on him and I'm not into that.

Aside from the 3rd period last night, he hasn't done a whole lot to ward off criticism. He needs the benefit of about 37 doubts to believe he's going to improve going forward.

 

[dechire]

He looks better than he did last year? based on what? he looks the exact same injured or not with the same criticisms.

Was he injured when he put up 8 points in 26 games in 2015? or his 3 points in 13 games this year? That's 11 points in 39 healthy games, or you know an even lower pace than his injury year.

Not a lot of lee-way when you're hugely underperforming and eat up nearly $6m in capspace, but yeah it's ok because he was "injured" and if he's "injured" for the remainder of his contract that makes it ok too right?

If you think that he's playing poorly now then say he's playing poorly now. Making a post saying "An injured player had bad numbers last year" does nothing for your point. Unless all you want to do is criticize him whether it has merit or not. I realize Callahan is the new Carle around here but if that's true then you should have plenty of actually relevant things to use against him instead of the period of time when he should have just had the surgery he needed instead of playing. This isn't Callahan-specific. I think it's pointless to judge players' injured play by the same standards as when they're healthy.