Russia may ice weakened team.

[Alfons]

Care to elaborate?

(I know Nash=Zherdev is maybe a strech, but based more on potential: Now Nash>Zherdev, Future Nash=Zherdev.)

 

[wilka91*]

hockey doesn't work with formulas like A + B > C + D

it's played on the ice, for 60 minutes, with sticks, a puck and 2 nets

 

[Oilers1*]

How cool would it be to see Russia and Canada go to a shootout one day?

Kovalchuk
Ovechkin
Federov
Datsyuk
Kovalev

v.s.

Lemieux
Sakic
Lecavalier
Nash
Iginla

 

[Iginla for Mayor]

How cool would it be to see Russia and Canada go to a shootout one day?

Kovalchuk
Ovechkin
Federov
Datsyuk
Kovalev

v.s.

Lemieux
Sakic
Lecavalier
Nash
Iginla


I love Iggy as much as the next guy... but he should NOT be in the shoot out!

i have to admint i don't like canada's chances in a shoot-out.... yes canada creates more well-rounded players, but russia has THE best stick handlers and danglers in the world. But if we did go to shoot-outs it should look like this:

Kovalchuk
Ovechkin
Federov
Datsyuk
Kovalev

vs

Lemieux
Sakic
Healtey
Karyia (if he makes the team) otherwise Nash
St. Louis

 

[DayWalk3r]

How cool would it be to see Russia and Canada go to a shootout one day?

Kovalchuk
Ovechkin
Federov
Datsyuk
Kovalev

v.s.

Lemieux
Sakic
Lecavalier
Nash
Iginla


I love Iggy as much as the next guy... but he should NOT be in the shoot out!

i have to admint i don't like canada's chances in a shoot-out.... yes canada creates more well-rounded players, but russia has THE best stick handlers and danglers in the world. But if we did go to shoot-outs it should look like this:

Kovalchuk
Ovechkin
Federov
Datsyuk
Kovalev

vs

Lemieux
Sakic
Healtey
Karyia (if he makes the team) otherwise Nash
St. Louis

maybe Sweden should put Salo back in the net then, we all remember the '94 olympics, right?

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

This is such a lame argument. Everyone knows that any team can beat any other team on any night. I don't mean to join the dogpile on you, RoyIsALegend, but I imagine that you thought last season that your Avs would "steamroll" the Wild in the 2nd round. Not only did the Avs not steamroll them; they lost to them.

Colorado has never played Minnesota in the 2nd round, and it was San Jose they lost not, not the Wild.

 

[Slay]

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:


Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

If you made a case for Thornton, Gagne... then you can make the case for Samsonov, Datsyuk, Zinoviev, Afinogenov... they are about the same age. Russia is starting to have a very nice depth especially with players born in 80s.

Heatley >>>>>> Malking

Even though there is a 5 age difference between them and Malkin is only 19, I can easly see it as Heatley=Malkin, right now. Though it is either can be Heatley>Malkin purely based on Heatley's greater experience.

 

[wilka91*]

Pretty nice depth but not on defense or goaltending.

 

[Slay]

Pretty nice depth but not on defense or goaltending.

True. Especially about goaltending. And defense depth is not as good as forward's but every year 1 or 2 solid players appear, and that's enough to put up a competitive team. 1980 - Kalinin, Vishnevsky, Malenkykh, Ryazantsev, 1981 - Semenov, 1982 - Volchenkov, Nikulin, 1983 - Tyutin, Grebeshkov Kondratiev, Koltsov, Kulyash, 1984 - Babchuk.

 

[Petey21]

Can someone please sum up what the article in the first post said? I hate those sportsnet articles, first they tell you to select region (what for??) and then it takes you to the main page and not directly to the article, and I had no clue what article it was in that long list. Sportsnet's website sucks!

 

[wilka91*]

Can someone please sum up what the article in the first post said? I hate those sportsnet articles, first they tell you to select region (what for??) and then it takes you to the main page and not directly to the article, and I had no clue what article it was in that long list. Sportsnet's website sucks!

this article is bull

just some controversial piece of **** without any sources

 

[Osprey]

Colorado has never played Minnesota in the 2nd round, and it was San Jose they lost not, not the Wild.

Sorry, I got the year and round incorrect ('03 1st, not '04 2nd), but my point still stands.

 

[Resolute]

When Russia brings top notch players into NHL like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Zherdev and others they can not get a fair deal or what they think is right? Why not?

This is all part and parcel of what the Russians think they deserve. Personally, I think that if this deal is fine for the rest of Europe, it should be fine for Russia. They disagree, that's their right. If they want to look like fools on the international scene to make a point, I say let them.

Of course, it seems this argument is moot, as the article was apparently written on faulty grounds anyway.

There are more than enough quality teams to make the Olympic tournament top notch. That sounds like your "hero" Don CHerry.

Your false accusation of bigotry only proves your own bigotry.

I'm not even certian that you know what point you are trying to make here. Perhaps you could expand on your thoughts rather than miss the mark with an attempt at a cheap insult?

The Olympic tournament without a quality Russian team would still see several quality teams in Canada, the USA, the Czechs, Finns, Swedes, Slovaks.

Even without a competitive Russian team, there would be a great number of good teams that would make for some good hockey. Since you are too dense to notice, most of the teams I just listed are European. So much for my "hero" being Don Cherry, eh?

O yeah? Like who? Today, what country can challenge Canada except Russians or Czechs?
USA? Finland? Slovaks? Swedes? Germany or Ukraine? Give me a break…

Where did Canada come into this? I was talking about the tournament as a whole, not how Russia bailing would affect the Canadians.

Russian hockey is on the rise again. When was the last time Russians won anything? Bronze in 2005 when Russians lost a very close game to Canada but beat Czech who then beat Canada in finals. Here is the roster I’d play in Olympics. If you think you know a lot of TOP NOTCH countries who can beat this roster I would like to know. Took me 7 minutes to come up with this roster....

I dont care what roster Russia could bring, and I dont care if Russian hockey is rebounding. My argument was surrounding what Russian hockey would do to itself if it wanted to use the Olympics to prove a political point. The talent Russia would be leaving behind is not really a factor to this argument. That Russia would leave it behind is.

 

[helicecopter]

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:

Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

there go your comparisons..

 

[wilka91*]

Somebody should close this thread. It started off with a link to the most worthless hockey related article this year, and led to a pointless discussion already discussed over and over again on the International forum.

And let's go back on topic for a second : Russia's coach Vladimir Krikunov and the GM, Igor Tuzik, are flying to NA next month to see some NHL games and talk to some of the candidates for the Olympics.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

As for the Russian Team, Anton Volchenkov was offered a spot a few days ago when he got a call and quickly accepted, so he will be on defense. I like his quote too:

"There's always going to be problems with the Russian team. That's the way it is all the time," said Volchenkov with a smile.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Again, I'm _extremely_ confident that the likes of Chris Pronger, Rob Blake, and Scott Niedermayer, whom have Norris trophies, Art Ross trophies and Stanley Cup rings between them, can "position" themselves fine with an extra few feet.

Uh, how many Art Ross trophies have these guys won again?

 

[greatwhite101*]

I dont care what roster Russia could bring, and I dont care if Russian hockey is rebounding. My argument was surrounding what Russian hockey would do to itself if it wanted to use the Olympics to prove a political point. The talent Russia would be leaving behind is not really a factor to this argument. That Russia would leave it behind is.

What political point??? What are you talking about?
Russians want to get compensated for future players like Ovechkin Zherdev Malkin Kovalchuk Semin Frolov. If they feel 500K (or whatever the amount) is not enough for compensation well maybe it’s not (in their mind). That what it’s all about.

It’s all about greed. Owners greed. Players are not getting the money they used to. Pay roll is 39 million but look at the ticket prices.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

I don't think it matters very much. Their best team would be a stretch to win a medal.

 

[Canuck21t]

Fedorov, Kovalev, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Samsonov, Mogilny, Malkin, Frolov, Afinogenov etc. would provide much more speed and skill upfront than Canada could ice, sorry. Yes they have bigger players but if those russians would decide to play their best Canada (especially on big ice where guys like Pronger have serious difficulties) would be in trouble.

And if you remeber, Canada was outplayed by the Czechs in last years World Cup and olny saved by luck and Brodeur. So much for Canada beeing head and shoulders above ohter teams. What Canada has got over the others is depth and probably the best defensmen (but not on big ice).

In a few years Russia will have the better forwards compared to Canada with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Frolov, Semin and Zherdev.

About the World Cup, I was very frustrated at the Canadian coaching because our grinding line was used way more than the other better offensive lines. Thank goodness that Joe Thornton was on the grinding line but still, Canada was being dictated by the opponent because we kept matching the best Czech line with our grind line and that reduced our firepower greatly.

When it comes to the Canadian youngsters, during the '90s, Team Canada won 5 straight Gold Medals at the WJC yet I was never impressed with the Canadian forwards. I could see that Canadians didn't skate as well as the Europeans, neither could they pass and stickhandle as good. The reason that Canada was able to win those Gold medals were due to amazing goaltending and a little bit of luck. Now for the first time since the Greztsky and Lemieux era, I am confident at our young Canadians. Canadians now skate as fast and have great skills. I can only see a few elite Russians having better skills. In fact, I always thought that the very best individual forwards were Russians, but as a unit, there was always something wrong with them. I don't know if the new generation of Russians have changed but I still see a lot of individualism in them. Because they have so much skill, they think that they can do it all alone. Well, it doesn't work that way, sorry. Canadians on the other hand tend to use their linemates more often and I like that better. I also believe many Russian fans are underrating Canadian players. Our players are alot less flashy but that doesn't mean that they're less effective. I don't know for sure who will have the brighter future but for a very long time I was worried but I am now finally happy with Canada's talent.

 

[greatwhite101*]

About the World Cup, I was very frustrated at the Canadian coaching because our grinding line was used way more than the other better offensive lines. Thank goodness that Joe Thornton was on the grinding line but still, Canada was being dictated by the opponent because we kept matching the best Czech line with our grind line and that reduced our firepower greatly.

When it comes to the Canadian youngsters, during the '90s, Team Canada won 5 straight Gold Medals at the WJC yet I was never impressed with the Canadian forwards. I could see that Canadians didn't skate as well as the Europeans, neither could they pass and stickhandle as good. The reason that Canada was able to win those Gold medals were due to amazing goaltending and a little bit of luck. Now for the first time since the Greztsky and Lemieux era, I am confident at our young Canadians. Canadians now skate as fast and have great skills. I can only see a few elite Russians having better skills. In fact, I always thought that the very best individual forwards were Russians, but as a unit, there was always something wrong with them. I don't know if the new generation of Russians have changed but I still see a lot of individualism in them. Because they have so much skill, they think that they can do it all alone. Well, it doesn't work that way, sorry. Canadians on the other hand tend to use their linemates more often and I like that better. I also believe many Russian fans are underrating Canadian players. Our players are alot less flashy but that doesn't mean that they're less effective. I don't know for sure who will have the brighter future but for a very long time I was worried but I am now finally happy with Canada's talent.

I was very impressed with Canada in 2005 WJC. They were clearly the best team and deserved to win. In last 3 years both countries provided great talents Crosby, Richards, Carter (isn't playing good now), Bergeron and many others Malkin, Kovalchuk, Semin Ovechkin... We will see future Kharlamovs and Mikhailovs but since 1992 biggest problem was and still is putting a good team together and Slava Fetisov who is a minister of sports doesn't do a good job so far.
When someone like RoyIsALegend says that he can put 5 countries ahead of Russians…. I do not even want to know which 5 teams and what order.. Makes me laugh…

 

[Resolute]

What political point??? What are you talking about?

You answered the question yourself:

Russians want to get compensated for future players like Ovechkin Zherdev Malkin Kovalchuk Semin Frolov. If they feel 500K (or whatever the amount) is not enough for compensation well maybe it’s not (in their mind). That what it’s all about.

Of course that is what it is all about. Never said otherwise. This is all about politics. The governance of players within the IIHF, and compensation for the transfer of players.

It’s all about greed. Owners greed. Players are not getting the money they used to. Pay roll is 39 million but look at the ticket prices.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'll refer you to the archives of the buisness of hockey forum where all of this has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The only thing I am pretty sure about is that NO other national team could beat Team Canada in a seven games series. On any given night somebody could beat us and that's why Olympic gold is not won yet. Anyways, upsets happen in the NHL and could very well happen with Team Canada, but on paper NO BODY could beat us in a seven games series.

The only problem: internation tournaments are not 7 games series...

 

[helicecopter]

The only thing I am pretty sure about is that NO other national team could beat Team Canada in a seven games series. On any given night somebody could beat us and that's why Olympic gold is not won yet. Anyways, upsets happen in the NHL and could very well happen with Team Canada, but on paper NO BODY could beat us in a seven games series.

The only problem: internation tournaments are not 7 games series...

Actually, there would be another problem..

 

[Garbs]

as for now, Sweden has 4 players among Top-9 in pointscoring, 3 among the Top-10 in +/- and 1 goalie that top's the Goalie-stats.

I still believe no country in the world can match Sweden's top 6.

Sundin
Forsberg
Alfredsson
Naslund
Zetterberg
D. Sedin/Modin/Lidstrom

That's sick.