Russia may ice weakened team.

[RoyIsALegend*]

um...are we not inviting Chris Pronger this year?

I never said those will be the defensemen for Team Canada.

I listed those players as they are all significantly _faster skaters_ than Chris Pronger, and that was what the discussion is about.

My top 7 Canada D are:

Pronger
Blake
Niedermayer
Foote
Redden
Regehr
Hannan

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

They're not exactly pylons, but there is more to it than that. The European guys started playing in the big rinks and did so until crossing the pond for NHL. For most guys that means 10-15 years of experience in big rinks. That must play some kind of role.

Yeah, you're grasping at straws now.

Canada has had the highest scoring team in tournaments, even with the Olympic size ice.

It's a minimal difference, and to say the Czech defense could be better than Canada's just because of the dimensions is downright laughable, IMO.

 

[arrbez]

I'd say Russians can roll 4 lines unlike Sweds who have a significantly drop of talent after Sundin and Forsberg line plus as you mentioned goaltending and I will add Russian defense is a little better as well.

The Russians can roll 4 better scoring lines than Sweden, but I think Sweden would take the edge in defensive play. Anyways, between Forsberg, Sundin, Naslund, Alfredsson, both Sedins, Zetterberg, Modin, Lidstrom, etc Sweden should be able to get solid offence

As far as Sweden's goaltending, it's pretty shallow, but Lundqvist is good enough to give them a chance IMO. That being said, they would be in serious trouble once you get past him, and into the Salo/Tellqvist/whoever category


And to some of my Canadian bretheren, stop being so homer-iffic. You act like we're invincible. We're not. On paper means nothing, that's why they play the games

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

The Russians can roll 4 better scoring lines than Sweden, but I think Sweden would take the edge in defensive play

On forward, I don't think any team can match Finland's defensive abilities. Sweden is very close, though.

 

[RorschachWJK]

I never said those will be the defensemen for Team Canada.

I listed those players as they are all significantly _faster skaters_ than Chris Pronger, and that was what the discussion is about.

My top 7 Canada D are:

Pronger
Blake
Niedermayer
Foote
Redden
Regehr
Hannan

Skating speed is a good thing, but there are things like positioning and awareness that come into play too when one has to play in a rink of a different size than one is used to. I'm sure many euro players who made the transition to North America could testify to this.

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

Skating speed is a good thing, but there are things like positioning and awareness that come into play too when one has to play in a rink of a different size than one is used to. I'm sure many euro players who made the transition to North America could testify to this.

Again, I'm _extremely_ confident that the likes of Chris Pronger, Rob Blake, and Scott Niedermayer, whom have Norris trophies, Art Ross trophies and Stanley Cup rings between them, can "position" themselves fine with an extra few feet.

They've done it before, and will do it again.

You're grasping at straws and refuse to admit that Canada's defense is far superior to the Czech's.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Yeah, you're grasping at straws now.

Canada has had the highest scoring team in tournaments, even with the Olympic size ice.

It's a minimal difference, and to say the Czech defense could be better than Canada's just because of the dimensions is downright laughable, IMO.

I never said the Czech defence could be better on the big ice, I said it could be as good as Canada's.

Also, I never said dimensions would be the sole reason, I said they would play a role.

 

[jcpenny]

If i was a Russian Hockey fan I'd be pissed! So much politics everytime, they make it look like representing your country isnt that important, we got it good in the U.S. A stupid war between cry babies and its the fans over the world and especially Russians who pay for it. I'm tired of this crap.

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

If i was a Russian Hockey fan I'd be pissed! So much politics everytime, they make it look like representing your country isnt that important, we got it good in the U.S. A stupid war between cry babies and its the fans over the world and especially Russians who pay for it. I'm tired of this crap.

Your location says you're in Montreal.

 

[jcpenny]

Your location says you're in Montreal.

i think this sentence was messed up, i meant that Russian players make it seem like they dont care cuz they got it good in the U.S., their new home.

 

[RoyIsALegend*]

i think this sentence was messed up, i meant that Russian players make it seem like they dont care cuz they got it good in the U.S., their new home.

Oh, you meant like you were talking as one of them "we got it good in the U.S."

Now I understand.

Merci.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain*]

as for now, Sweden has 4 players among Top-9 in pointscoring, 3 among the Top-10 in +/- and 1 goalie that top's the Goalie-stats.

As for now most teams have only played 8 games so why does it matter?

 

[DayWalk3r]

As for now most teams have only played 8 games so why does it matter?

time will tell

 

[Iginla for Mayor]

young talent?

In a few years Russia will have the better forwards compared to Canada with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Frolov, Semin and Zherdev

Don't get me wrong... that is an extremely talented group of young players.
But to say Russia has a better core of young players is a bit ridiculous:

Nash
Thorton
Lecavalier
Heatley
Crosby
Richards
Carter
Perry
Getzlaf
Gagne
Marleau
Ryder
Spezza
Tanguay
Staal
Phanuef
Boynton
Bouwmeester
Seabrooke
Barker
Raycroft
Luongo
Ward

and the list could be bigger! SO EAT CROW!

 

[RorschachWJK]

In a few years Russia will have the better forwards compared to Canada with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Frolov, Semin and Zherdev

Don't get me wrong... that is an extremely talented group of young players.
But to say Russia has a better core of young players is a bit ridiculous:

Nash
Thorton
Lecavalier
Heatley
Crosby
Richards
Carter
Perry
Getzlaf
Gagne
Marleau
Ryder
Spezza
Tanguay
Staal
Phanuef
Boynton
Bouwmeester
Seabrooke
Barker
Raycroft
Luongo
Ward

and the list could be bigger! SO EAT CROW!

You could start by deleting D-men and goalies from your list as the guy was talking about forwards. Also, his list was far from exhaustive.

 

[Iginla for Mayor]

You could start by deleting D-men and goalies from your list as the guy was talking about forwards. Also, his list was far from exhaustive.

your right... his post was about forwards....
i guess i should take out d and goalies... that still leaves 15 forwards who either already are, or are soon to be elite talents in the NHL. their are still a lot of good players not mentioned on that list.

As i said, Russia has talent. Especially that group of young forwards mentioned. However, one can never compare depth with Canada. To say that Russia will have better forwards in a few years!

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:

Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

 

[wilka91*]

I've always had a lot of fun with that scientific approach to hockey used at HF.

X > Y

X - Y > 0

- Y > - X

... and this proves that Canada's defense is the best

 

[greatwhite101*]

You could start by deleting D-men and goalies from your list as the guy was talking about forwards. Also, his list was far from exhaustive.

your right... his post was about forwards....
i guess i should take out d and goalies... that still leaves 15 forwards who either already are, or are soon to be elite talents in the NHL. their are still a lot of good players not mentioned on that list.

As i said, Russia has talent. Especially that group of young forwards mentioned. However, one can never compare depth with Canada. To say that Russia will have better forwards in a few years!

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:

Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

Well at least you didn't compare centers to goalies....

 

[wilka91*]

Well at least you didn't compare centers to goalies....

 

[DayWalk3r]

You could start by deleting D-men and goalies from your list as the guy was talking about forwards. Also, his list was far from exhaustive.

your right... his post was about forwards....
i guess i should take out d and goalies... that still leaves 15 forwards who either already are, or are soon to be elite talents in the NHL. their are still a lot of good players not mentioned on that list.

As i said, Russia has talent. Especially that group of young forwards mentioned. However, one can never compare depth with Canada. To say that Russia will have better forwards in a few years!

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:

Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

while you're at it, who is "Thorton" anyway?

 

[Osprey]

This is such a lame argument. Everyone knows that any team can beat any other team on any night. I don't mean to join the dogpile on you, RoyIsALegend, but I imagine that you thought last season that your Avs would "steamroll" the Wild in the 2nd round. Not only did the Avs not steamroll them; they lost to them. There are too many other examples to name. Having more skill than your opponent means something, but it's not everything. There's also teamwork and hard work. Some people need to quit letting pride and national sensitivity get in the way.

I'll leave you with Belarus (wasn't it?) who had only a single NHLer on their roster and were still playing in '02 while teams with far more NHLers were on the plane home.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well this assures Canada of a gold medal.

 

[Alfons]

There are still more good russian forwards than those six i mentioned, for example Samsonov, Datsuyk, Afinogenov, Perezhogin, Grigorenko,A. Radulov, Chistov (still great potental), Kaigorodov, Svitov. And a team usually only have about 13 forwards....

And when comparing players, who to decide which to compare? One could go like this:

Kovalchuk>Heatley
Ovechkin>Crosby
Zherdev=Nash
Malkin<Thornton, but in 1 or 2 years, Malkin>Thornton
Frolov<Gagne, soon, Frolov>Gagne
and so on....

 

[greatwhite101*]

You could start by deleting D-men and goalies from your list as the guy was talking about forwards. Also, his list was far from exhaustive.

your right... his post was about forwards....
i guess i should take out d and goalies... that still leaves 15 forwards who either already are, or are soon to be elite talents in the NHL. their are still a lot of good players not mentioned on that list.

As i said, Russia has talent. Especially that group of young forwards mentioned. However, one can never compare depth with Canada. To say that Russia will have better forwards in a few years!

Just compare the ones he mentioned to the ones I mentioned:

Thorton > Kovalchuk. ... Kovalchuk = better scorer... thorton = better overall player
Crosby < Ovechkin now.... but crosby will be better in a year or so!
Heatley >>>>>> Malking
Nash > Frolov
Spezza > Semin
Gagne > Zherdev

That still leaves Staal, Ryder, Richards, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Tanguay, Marleau ect.ect.ect.

I think you forgot to mention this one...

Quinn > Putin

Here is a pair of ( o )Y( o ) just for the hell of it

 

[HockeyMan9]

There are still more good russian forwards than those six i mentioned, for example Samsonov, Datsuyk, Afinogenov, Perezhogin, Grigorenko,A. Radulov, Chistov (still great potental), Kaigorodov, Svitov. And a team usually only have about 13 forwards....

And when comparing players, who to decide which to compare? One could go like this:

Kovalchuk>Heatley
Ovechkin>Crosby
Zherdev=Nash
Malkin<Thornton, but in 1 or 2 years, Malkin>Thornton
Frolov<Gagne, soon, Frolov>Gagne
and so on....

No.