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[KCC]

Poor Jay wants to see trends around the league but can’t bear to watch his old team turn things right around? Guy has an ego the size of the High Level Bridge. Another Babcock disciple, the first thing they learned from that prick is that it’s all about me. Good riddance twit. Hope you figure out how to coach a zone defence while watching the rest of the league but not the Oilers.

Both coaches are around the same age but Knobblauch is far superior in every facet of coaching. From match ups to line combinations to actually knowing how to do a zone defense etc. Jay is a decent coach at the minor league level and is good at teaching young players. But in the NHL as time went on it became apparent he was in over his head. It doesn't help that at times he comes across as smug and seems to always love to hear himself talk. lol

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Both coaches are around the same age but Knobblauch is far superior in every facet of coaching. From match ups to line combinations to actually knowing how to do a zone defense etc. Jay is a decent coach at the minor league level and is good at teaching young players. But in the NHL as time went on it became apparent he was in over his head. It doesn't help that at times he comes across as smug and seems to always love to hear himself talk. lol

I think Jay is a good coach for a rebuilding team, but might need to be let go as they head towards contention. If I were San Jose, I would strongly consider it.

The other thought I had for him... if I were Toronto I would have considered firing Sheldon after game 4 and bringing in Woody on the interim. One thing he was good at was energizing his offensive players. Toronto cant beat Boston in the 2-1/3-2 games over a full series. Their only shot is run and gun.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

Green who admitted at the draft, right after the trade, that he never watched Griffin play pro hockey. Hadn’t watched him since junior.

He didn’t make the trade, but I bet he gave a thumbs up.

I’m with you, fire these guys yesterday. You need accountability! Scouts need to do their due diligence before offering up their opinion, that draft was far too important to f*** around and waste those picks.

Edit: was trying to reply to Pavel, idk why it didn’t quote

 

[joestevens29]

Green who admitted at the draft, right after the trade, that he never watched Griffin play pro hockey. Hadn’t watched him since junior.

He didn’t make the trade, but I bet he gave a thumbs up.

I’m with you, fire these guys yesterday. You need accountability! Scouts need to do their due diligence before offering up their opinion, that draft was far too important to f*** around and waste those picks.

Edit: was trying to reply to Pavel, idk why it didn’t quote

I mean Bob Green was an amateur scout. They taking his information that's their own fault.

You don't ask a guy that hasn't watched the player at the pro's level advice. Sure he can give you the advice on what you saw in the WHL, but at the time of the trade they needed their pro scouts on it.

Not saying he should still have a job, but whoever took his advice in that trade should've been fired.

 

[bucks_oil]

Not saying he should still have a job, but whoever took his advice in that trade should've been fired.

... he was. Works in St Louis now I hear.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Green who admitted at the draft, right after the trade, that he never watched Griffin play pro hockey. Hadn’t watched him since junior.

He didn’t make the trade, but I bet he gave a thumbs up.

I’m with you, fire these guys yesterday. You need accountability! Scouts need to do their due diligence before offering up their opinion, that draft was far too important to f*** around and waste those picks.

Edit: was trying to reply to Pavel, idk why it didn’t quote

I never understood the urgency in that draft to rapidly improve the team at all costs. Their attempt to get Dougie Hamilton made sense. He was already a young 2nd pair dman who was likely to become a top pair at worst. But the assets moved for Reinhart made no sense even at the time.

 

[Canovin]

I never understood the urgency in that draft to rapidly improve the team at all costs. Their attempt to get Dougie Hamilton made sense. He was already a young 2nd pair dman who was likely to become a top pair at worst. But the assets moved for Reinhart made no sense even at the time.

Even if we didn't get Hamilton. I don't understand why we didn't ask for Pulock instead of Reinhart.

 

[MessierII]

Even if we didn't get Hamilton. I don't understand why we didn't ask for Pulock instead of Reinhart.

It wasn’t super clear who would be better at that point. I thought it was going to be Hamonic at the time they announced the trade.

 

[McDoused]

I think Jay is a good coach for a rebuilding team, but might need to be let go as they head towards contention. If I were San Jose, I would strongly consider it.

The other thought I had for him... if I were Toronto I would have considered firing Sheldon after game 4 and bringing in Woody on the interim. One thing he was good at was energizing his offensive players. Toronto cant beat Boston in the 2-1/3-2 games over a full series. Their only shot is run and gun.

It pains me to say it, but Woodcroft can still a good coach in this league. I think he needs to show some more composure and maybe treat the refs a little different at his next gig. He is still an excellent communicator and McDavid definitely thought he was a smart coach.

Strangely, Woody might work in Toronto. He likes to ride his superstars and the media would probably buy whatever he's selling. They could end up liking the 11-7. I said before though that I think Toronto needs a more composed coach like Knoblauch, not another screamer like Keefe.

 

[K1984]

It pains me to say it, but Woodcroft can still a good coach in this league. I think he needs to show some more composure and maybe treat the refs a little different at his next gig. He is still an excellent communicator and McDavid definitely thought he was a smart coach.

Strangely, Woody might work in Toronto. He likes to ride his superstars and the media would probably buy whatever he's selling. They could end up liking the 11-7. I said before though that I think Toronto needs a more composed coach like Knoblauch, not another screamer like Keefe.

I don't really know what Woodcroft necessarily is as a coach yet. I think you can kind of break down his tenure here in a few chunks:

2022 Regular Season & Playoffs - very little to complain about, turned the season around and had immediate success

October 2022 - January 2023 - pretty bad start to the year combined with uneven play. Old Oiler habits showing themselves again

February 2023 - April 2023 - outstanding, feeling like we finally might be over the hump

Playoffs 2023 - See January - April 2023. Bad habits back in our game, and some frankly terrible coaching decisions with matchups and deployment in the Vegas series that hurt us.

October 2023 - downward continuation of Playoffs 2023

It's almost an even split of good and bad. The theme when I look at this is the team was more or less only hot when something occurred to give them a boost. Coaching change in 2022; acquisition of Ekholm in 2023. When we were in a state of relative normality, or if he had to make tough decisions in the playoffs, we underperformed. If we were in a situation where we had time to game plan and adjust we underperformed. If I'm a team looking to make a hire I don't know if I can really rely on his time in Edmonton to make a proper judgement.

Knoblauch hasn't been here long enough to know if this will occur with him as well, but I feel like Woodcroft's tenure was a lot more bad than good when you examine his record after the 2022 "new coach bump."

 

[belair]

I think Jay is a good coach for a rebuilding team, but might need to be let go as they head towards contention. If I were San Jose, I would strongly consider it.

The other thought I had for him... if I were Toronto I would have considered firing Sheldon after game 4 and bringing in Woody on the interim. One thing he was good at was energizing his offensive players. Toronto cant beat Boston in the 2-1/3-2 games over a full series. Their only shot is run and gun.

Agree. Toronto's approach to the Boston series has been all wrong. The low scoring, muck it up neutral zone game is Boston's wheelhouse. If Woody was coach, he would've loaded that top line after seeing the results of game one.

The only way Toronto beats the Bruins is by using their only advantage over them--their elite offense.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Agree. Toronto's approach to the Boston series has been all wrong. The low scoring, muck it up neutral zone game is Boston's wheelhouse. If Woody was coach, he would've loaded that top line after seeing the results of game one.

The only way Toronto beats the Bruins is by using their only advantage over them--their elite offense.

Totally fair, but that Leaf's blueline probably just isn't good enough overall.

 

[belair]

Totally fair, but that Leaf's blueline probably just isn't good enough overall.

Would've mentioned. They don't move the puck well enough.

 

[Pavel10]

Poor Jay wants to see trends around the league but can’t bear to watch his old team turn things right around? Guy has an ego the size of the High Level Bridge. Another Babcock disciple, the first thing they learned from that prick is that it’s all about me. Good riddance twit. Hope you figure out how to coach a zone defence while watching the rest of the league but not the Oilers.

Yeah I can imagine him watching jersey thinking? "when is this guy going to pair up mcdavid and drai?"

 

[foshizzle]

$5M of dead cap (or $3.75, however you want to slice it) for three years is much, much more punitive than $1.1M for one year, $1.5M for 4 years, and $2.2 for 2 years. Just because a player isn't technically bought out doesn't mean the cap space isn't dead.

Here are the three options:

1 - we roll the dice and try to have him play as backup next year (bad idea)

2 - we send him to the AHL, necessitating acquiring an NHL backup. Campbell's hit is $3.75 and a replacement goalie of any quality is probably going to be around $2M. So we've cost ourselves more cap.

3 - burn a lot of assets to trade him (I think you're underestimating what that would cost)

4 - just buy him out, replace him AND save cap $ in 24/25, 25/26 and 26/27. By the time the dreaded year 3-6 of the "dead cap" comes around, it is very possible, maybe even likely that it will cost us in the range of $1-2% of the total cap. That is the definition of immaterial.

It's not just 1.1M though. You have to pay for a back up as well. In year 2/3 - keeping him vs the cost of buyout is negligible by your own definition (once you add back up costs). During that time of his buyout- Drai, McDavid, Bouchard, Skinner will need new deals. The cost of backups will go up. Buying him out this year makes little sense.

 

[foshizzle]

Why are you worrying about year 3+ of the buyout when we need to upgrade the team NOW? If the salary cap is $8m higher in 3 years and there's $2.6m dead cap on the books, so be it. It isn't ideal, but retaining Campbell makes upgrading the team basically impossible. Avoiding signing any more awful contracts in the next few years will make a far bigger difference than dealing with Campbell's dead cap from a buyout.

We have to make 29 and 97 want to stay, so the roster has to at least remain as good as it is now, if not upgraded in certain areas. Campbell buried at $3.75m + Brown's bonus is like $7m dead next year, instead of like $4.8m if a buyout is done. I know which option I prefer.

You seem to forget that 1.1M is just NEXT YEAR. You are also ignoring the cost of a back up. The year of McDavid needing to be re-signed that buyout amount is the highest. Skinner is also due up that year. So, when it's time to re up McDavid and Skinner- you are sitting there with 2.3M of dead cap, Skinner due, Bouchard and Leon due the year before? The time to absorb the cap is while your have Bouchard, McDavid, Leon under good contracts. Having dead cap after they are at market value makes it almost impossible to keep all three. Keep Campbell next year, re-sign 2 and 29, If Campbell has a horid year again, buy him out next summer.

 

[K1984]

It's not just 1.1M though. You have to pay for a back up as well. In year 2/3 - keeping him vs the cost of buyout is negligible by your own definition (once you add back up costs). During that time of his buyout- Drai, McDavid, Bouchard, Skinner will need new deals. The cost of backups will go up. Buying him out this year makes little sense.

It is just $1.1M because we would be paying a backup anyways.

The only time the replacement player is at all relevant factored into this is keeping Campbell. Then we have the $3.75 dead cap PLUS whatever we are paying the backup, which will certainly exceed the total $5M Campbell makes for anyone of any quality.

Drai, McDavid and Bouchard will need new deals when Campbell's contract is still on the books if we don't buy him out. So instead of working around the $2.6 penalty in 26/27 with all of McDavid/Drai/Bouch/Skinner extended, we have a $3.75-$5M anchor that on the whole will cost us more than his $5M cap hit to begin with when factoring in replacement.

I touched on this as it pertains to the theory of dealing significant assets to move Campbell, but is anyone here mad we have the Neal "dead cap" on the books as we're watching Hyman score goals at will? Or RNH be a key to special teams and completing the top 6? Or Kane being a force int he playoffs? One, maybe even two of those guys aren't on the team right now if Holland was more afraid of dead cap *gasp* 4 years down the road vs. using the savings to improve the team then. And this was in a flat cap environment, the cap is probably going to go up by $4M/year three years in a row here. This is small, small potatoes.

 

[TheNumber4]

We may have missed Wyatt by 1 pick. But atleast we’re not the Leaf’s picking goalie Ian Scott one spot before Swayman. And reports are the Leaf’s really liked Swayman.

 

[Oilhawks]

We may have missed Wyatt by 1 pick. But atleast we’re not the Leaf’s picking goalie Ian Scott one spot before Swayman. And reports are the Leaf’s really liked Swayman.

The Leafs also gave away Rask to the Bruins before too, no? Ouch

 

[TheNumber4]

The Leafs also gave away Rask to the Bruins before too, no? Ouch

Lol yeh they did. That franchise is just 60 years straight of OOFs.

 

[foshizzle]

It is just $1.1M because we would be paying a backup anyways.

The only time the replacement player is at all relevant factored into this is keeping Campbell. Then we have the $3.75 dead cap PLUS whatever we are paying the backup, which will certainly exceed the total $5M Campbell makes for anyone of any quality.

Drai, McDavid and Bouchard will need new deals when Campbell's contract is still on the books if we don't buy him out. So instead of working around the $2.6 penalty in 26/27 with all of McDavid/Drai/Bouch/Skinner extended, we have a $3.75-$5M anchor that on the whole will cost us more than his $5M cap hit to begin with when factoring in replacement.

I touched on this as it pertains to the theory of dealing significant assets to move Campbell, but is anyone here mad we have the Neal "dead cap" on the books as we're watching Hyman score goals at will? Or RNH be a key to special teams and completing the top 6? Or Kane being a force int he playoffs? One, maybe even two of those guys aren't on the team right now if Holland was more afraid of dead cap *gasp* 4 years down the road vs. using the savings to improve the team then. And this was in a flat cap environment, the cap is probably going to go up by $4M/year three years in a row here. This is small, small potatoes.

Just to play Devil's advocate- you said, in your previous post- 2M is negligible for the buyout. Well, the difference between 1.1M and 3.75 is 2.65M- that must be negligible too, then. I'm not saying don't ever buy him out, just don't buy him out this year. Wait a year and reduce the impact. If he plays decent the upcoming season, you may be able to move him. Under Knob's system, he may be decent.

Yeah, the Neal dead cap could have gotten a pretty good top 6 player at the deadline. So yeah, we should be upset. Teams don't win with dead cap. Yeah cap is going up, but players salary will increase lock step with that increase. As far as two of those guys not being on the team without the buyouts- that is false- Holland had 30M available to him that year (he decided a half of it needed to go to Campbell and Nurse). Yeah, if Holland was good at his job he would have had those 2 players and probably a couple more. Anyways, agree to disagree.