Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | Chia Talk Ban | Oilers Sign KHL G Mikko Koskinen, What's Next?

[Little Fury]

He was disengaged far too much last season. He wasnt alone either.
When key players are disengaged everything else is virtually irrelevant.

I've seen that in Drai's game every year since his sophomore campaign but I guess we're supposed to look the other way as long as he spears guys in the nuts or something.

 

[guymez]

I've seen that in Drai's game every year since his sophomore campaign but I guess we're supposed to look the other way as long as he spears guys in the nuts or something.

He needs to become a more consistent player.

He is still very young...I havent given up on him.

 

[Little Fury]

He needs to become a more consistent player.

He is still very young...I havent given up on him.

No question he'd be a cornerstone piece on just about any team in the league. As it happens, though, he's on a team with Connor McDavid, a team that's unlikely to go anywhere until it drafts and develops a high end D man.

 

[McFlyingV]

How? Are D men not an important part of the team make up?



He's 21 and grit is overrated.



Good goaltending and D by committee might get you int the playoffs and maybe be enough to win a round or two but you can't win a Cup that way. Trade Drai for Karlsson and you have the two best players in the league at their position on the same team. If you can't win with that, you're sure not winning with half of that.



Letang is better than any Oilers D by a country mile and they have Kessel who would be the second best player on the Oilers.



Yeah you can win without a #1D if you have two generational talents up front plus Kessel, who would be the second best player on the Oilers.

Dmen are important in team makeup, yes. But when you look back on the Anaheim series, do you really think it was defence (aside from reffing) that cost us that series? Now imagine you didn't have Draisaitl's scoring from the 2nd line, and instead had Nylander who would have been completely neutralized by a team like the Ducks, similarly to how he was neutralized by Boston.

I'm not talking about grit. I'm talking about a player who can win puck battles and control puck possession against big physical teams. A guy who can battle through tight checking hockey where way more obstruction is allowed. The fact that Draisaitl isn't afraid to get nasty in those types of games is simply a bonus, but that "grit" is not something I'm talking about. As for Nylander being 21, how does that change anything about the type of player he is? He's never been a fight through tight checking, out muscle, out work kind of player, and thats quite a risk you're taking if you think he will magically become that type of player.

You can't win period if you don't have depth. Pittsburgh showed last year you can win a cup with D by committee and good goaltending so long as you have superstar forwards and good depth. We have superstar forwards we don't have depth yet.

Letang is better than any Oilers D, correct, but Pittsburgh just won a cup without him playing a single playoff game against a team that has 2 #1D and no star centres.

Kessel's season this year was definitely better than Drai's, in large part due to his power play production. I have a hard time agreeing that Kessel on average is any better than Draisaitl, especially when he gets to play with Malkin and Crosby on the PP every game. You are correct, however, that Edmonton needs another very good player in their top 6 to make it work. We'll see what a full season of Nuge with McDavid looks like and we'll see if Puljujarvi or Yamamoto can prove to be that player.

 

[McShogun99]

We had a bad season due to poor goaltending and special teams, there's no need to move any of Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse or Klefbom to achieve "balance." If we're going to win it's going to be with those 4 plus Mcdavid and Larsson, we have JP, Yamamoto and Benson with top 6 winger potential. The biggest thing we are missing is a true #1D but will probably have to settle for a top 4 offensive Dman instead.

 

[McFlyingV]

Significantly more expensive and significantly better D.



Which is also a pretty significant need last I looked.



No and it's not happening but they should consider it if Karlsson was coming the other way.



If all you're doing is moving Klef for an older, more expensive and roughly equivalent D man who happens to be right handed, are you really that far ahead or are you just creating depth at one position (RHD) at the expense of another (LHD).

To the bolded, I'm pretty sure he's suggesting that if Klef were to be moved for a RHD it would be in a package deal for a superior dman.

To me, the deal that makes the most sense if you're trying to go after a #1D is to turn either Klefbom, Nurse, or Larsson + picks and prospects into that player. Maybe thats not realistic, who knows, but you'd have to think for example this year's 1st round pick + one of those 3 + one of our winger prospects is an enticing offer.

 

[belair]

Significantly more expensive and significantly better D.

Which is also a pretty significant need last I looked.

No and it's not happening but they should consider it if Karlsson was coming the other way.

If all you're doing is moving Klef for an older, more expensive and roughly equivalent D man who happens to be right handed, are you really that far ahead or are you just creating depth at one position (RHD) at the expense of another (LHD).

Well this is dependent on who you're acquiring and what role you're convinced Oscar Klefbom is capable of filling for us long-term. Can we fill that role with someone else internally? That hole at RD is significantly harder to fill. IMO, Darnell Nurse's emergence as a top four defenseman has given us some options moving forward. And over the next couple of seasons, having him signed to what I assume will be a bridge deal will give us the ability to spend a bit more elsewhere. Even signing a LH offensive depth D could offset some of that lost production. The issue is WHO we are getting.

As for the Eberle replacement, the team is moving away from spending massive amounts of money on the wings. A Nurse for Nylander trade would completely counter how our roster has been built to this point. And I don't think that's a good thing.

 

[Little Fury]

Dmen are important in team makeup, yes. But when you look back on the Anaheim series, do you really think it was defence (aside from reffing) that cost us that series? Now imagine you didn't have Draisaitl's scoring from the 2nd line, and instead had Nylander who would have been completely neutralized by a team like the Ducks, similarly to how he was neutralized by Boston.

First off, you keep ignoring the part where my team wouldn't have Drai but would have the best D man in hockey. I think that would make a bit of a difference.

Second: Drai flourished to some extent against the Ducks because they had to put so much attention to covering McDavid. He also was obscenely lucky. Either way, i don't really put much weight in small sample sizes like a single seven game playoff series.

I'm not talking about grit. I'm talking about a player who can win puck battles and control puck possession against big physical teams. A guy who can battle through tight checking hockey where way more obstruction is allowed. The fact that Draisaitl isn't afraid to get nasty in those types of games is simply a bonus, but that "grit" is not something I'm talking about.

That's grit to me.

As for Nylander being 21, how does that change anything about the type of player he is? He's never been a fight through tight checking, out muscle, out work kind of player, and thats quite a risk you're taking if you think he will magically become that type of player.

I don't think he necessarily will (though I don't doubt he'll improve in that regard given his age). I just don't think you necessarily have to play that way to be successful. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

You can't win period if you don't have depth. Pittsburgh showed last year you can win a cup with D by committee and good goaltending so long as you have superstar forwards and good depth. We have superstar forwards we don't have depth yet.

Drai's no Malkin and we don't have a Kessel.

Letang is better than any Oilers D, correct, but Pittsburgh just won a cup without him playing a single playoff game against a team that has 2 #1D and no star centres.

see above.

Kessel's season this year was definitely better than Drai's, in large part due to his power play production. I have a hard time agreeing that Kessel on average is any better than Draisaitl, especially when he gets to play with Malkin and Crosby on the PP every game.

Kessel is a better 5v5 player than Drai right now because he's more capable of pushing the play on a consistent basis. Regardless, I'd say they're close, which still leaves us with having 2/3rds of the talent up front as the Pens.

 

[Little Fury]

Well this is dependent on who you're acquiring and what role you're convinced Oscar Klefbom is capable of filling for us long-term. Can we fill that role with someone else internally? That hole at RD is significantly harder to fill. IMO, Darnell Nurse's emergence as a top four defenseman has given us some options moving forward. And over the next couple of seasons, having him signed to what I assume will be a bridge deal will give us the ability to spend a bit more elsewhere. Even signing a LH offensive depth D could offset some of that lost production. The issue is WHO we are getting.

Well without that detail, it's all pretty academic ain't it?

Anyway, I'm really agnostic on the whole thing but I am sure that whatever path the Oilers take, they'll find a way to f**k it up.

 

[McFlyingV]

First off, you keep ignoring the part where my team wouldn't have Drai but would have the best D man in hockey. I think that would make a bit of a difference.
I'm not arguing it wouldn't make a difference, but was D really our issue in the playoffs last year? Seemed to me that tertiary scoring was our biggest issue, and we still should have won the series if not for reffing/coaches challenge screw ups.
Second: Drai flourished to some extent against the Ducks because they had to put so much attention to covering McDavid. He also was obscenely lucky. Either way, i don't really put much weight in small sample sizes like a single seven game playoff series.
Of course he flourished because McDavid was their primary concern, but he also flourished playing against Getzlaf's line the majority of the time. Nylander did nothing this playoffs despite only seeing Bergeron's line 30% of his ice time. He would be eaten alive trying to matchup with Getzlaf. Call it luck all you want, Draisaitl eats the ducks alive every time he plays them.


That's grit to me.
Ok. If you don't think that skillset is important in the playoffs, and especially to get through in the West then I'd advise you to watch more playoff hockey.


I don't think he necessarily will (though I don't doubt he'll improve in that regard given his age). I just don't think you necessarily have to play that way to be successful. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
A star like Patrick Kane can skin a cat a different way, but thats on teams with incredible depth, and thats due to the fact that he's twice the player Nylander is. You're also asking a lot more from a centre in this scenario, and Nylander just hasn't shown at all that he has what it takes to be that guy come playoff time in the west.


Drai's no Malkin and we don't have a Kessel.



see above.



Kessel is a better 5v5 player than Drai right now because he's more capable of pushing the play on a consistent basis. Regardless, I'd say they're close, which still leaves us with having 2/3rds of the talent up front as the Pens.
Weird that the better 5v5 player has been outscored the last 2 seasons at 5 on 5. I acknowledged your 2nd point here already, which is that yes we need another very good forward. Time will tell if Nuge can do that alongside McDavid, or if one of Yamamoto or Puljujarvi can develop into that. Who knows, maybe we win a top 3 pick tomorrow and we find that guy in Svechnikov/Zadina.

Replied in bold.

 

[Faelko]

So my proposal would leave us in basically the same boat we're in now, but with a better D.



Well, i'm told that finding high end W is as easy as reaching out and picking one off the elite winger tree.



Realistically, that's absolutely correct. If we end up picking at 10 and all the good D men are off the board, I think one needs to think about alternatives because we aren't going anywhere with the D as it is IMO.

If the Oilers hadn’t blown their wad salary wise I’d say getting a quality winger would be easier than a C or D, unfortunately for us we can’t afford one without subtracting some salary.

 

[TB12]

This guy as our 2C in the playoffs?

10-ply, bud.

 

[McDNicks17]

Dominik Kahun signs with Chicago.

Damnit, Leon. You were supposed to get your German bro to sign here.

 

[Soli]

Adam Larsson and OEL are paired together at the World Championships. They played the most minutes in their tune up game vs. Russia.

 

[McDrai]

Adam Larsson and OEL are paired together at the World Championships. They played the most minutes in their tune up game vs. Russia.

Plot twist: Oilers trade Larsson for Dylan Strome (who will not be an impact player at the nhl level imo)

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

hows aboot...

Caggiula, Benning and a 2nd for Mikko Koivu
Russell for Carrick
sign beagle, koskinen


Nugent Hopkins-McDavid-Rattie
Lucic-Draisaitl-Yammamoto
Aberg-Koivu-Puljujarvi
Khaira-Beagle-Kassian

Nurse-Larsson
Dahlin-Sekera
Klefbom-Carrick

Talbot
Koskinen

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

hows aboot...

Caggiula, Benning and a 2nd for Mikko Koivu
Russell for Carrick
sign beagle, koskinen

Minnesota says lol no

Chia says no and in a rare instance I'd agree with him.

But I really like your 2nd pairing.

 

[McVirginOil]

hows aboot...

Caggiula, Benning and a 2nd for Mikko Koivu
Russell for Carrick
sign beagle, koskinen


Nugent Hopkins-McDavid-Rattie
Lucic-Draisaitl-Yammamoto
Aberg-Koivu-Puljujarvi
Khaira-Beagle-Kassian

Nurse-Larsson
Dahlin-Sekera
Klefbom-Carrick

Talbot
Koskinen

I don’t think Koivu, one of the best defensive forwards in the league, is going for scraps.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I don’t think Koivu, one of the best defensive forwards in the league, is going for scraps.

he might though.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Stauffer tweeting about Derek Ryan again. Gotta think we target him this off season, as Stauffer LOVES to talk about this player. Could work out great in the bottom 6. Scored nearly 40 points and is excellent on the dot. Would add some nice C depth, and FO% to the PK/PP units. I'll keep an eye on him for USA at Worlds.

 

[Crude]

Stauffer tweeting about Derek Ryan again. Gotta think we target him this off season, as Stauffer LOVES to talk about this player. Could work out great in the bottom 6. Scored nearly 40 points and is excellent on the dot. Would add some nice C depth, and FO% to the PK/PP units. I'll keep an eye on him for USA at Worlds.

2 years younger than Letestu and about 4% better on the draw. With Woodcroft gone, we shouldn't be seeing anymore 4C's on the PP, which is good.

 

[Spawn]

Stauffer tweeting about Derek Ryan again. Gotta think we target him this off season, as Stauffer LOVES to talk about this player. Could work out great in the bottom 6. Scored nearly 40 points and is excellent on the dot. Would add some nice C depth, and FO% to the PK/PP units. I'll keep an eye on him for USA at Worlds.

I think Stauffer's ongoing obsession with Ryan which has been going on for the better part of 3 years now is entirely driven by the fact that he spent 4 years at the UofA and less so that the Oilers have any interest in him.

2 years younger than Letestu and about 4% better on the draw. With Woodcroft gone, we shouldn't be seeing anymore 4C's on the PP, which is good.

Ryan played basically identical PP minutes to Letestu over the past couple of years. I wouldn't be so sure that if he was brought in he wouldn't get a spot on our PP unit lol.

I don't know... you look at Derek Ryan's usage and you wonder if he's the kind of guy you want on your 4th line. He's a guy who has gotten really heavy offensive zone pushes in his career, and doesn't really PK.

 

[EDMOILERS9729]

What do you guys feel about Brodziak as a 4c next year.

 

[belair]

I think Stauffer's ongoing obsession with Ryan which has been going on for the better part of 3 years now is entirely driven by the fact that he spent 4 years at the UofA and less so that the Oilers have any interest in him.



Ryan played basically identical PP minutes to Letestu over the past couple of years. I wouldn't be so sure that if he was brought in he wouldn't get a spot on our PP unit lol.

I don't know... you look at Derek Ryan's usage and you wonder if he's the kind of guy you want on your 4th line. He's a guy who has gotten really heavy offensive zone pushes in his career, and doesn't really PK.

Agreed. And the season he just had, he's probably looking at a paycheque of over $2m AAV. We can't afford to be spending that kind of money on the bottom six.

 

[Spawn]

What do you guys feel about Brodziak as a 4c next year.

What’s wrong with khaira in the role?