Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2017-18

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YWGinYYZ

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Jul 3, 2011
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I hate this more than the "Winnipeg Tax". There is always some hypothetical 'what if'. What if we had won the lottery in '15? What if Frolik had loved Winnipeg so much he was willing to take a discount? What if _____ _____ _____ ?

That's the nature of forums. Individuals have opinions that often differ from other individuals. :nod: Echo chambers are boring. ;)
 

ps241

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I hate this more than the "Winnipeg Tax". There is always some hypothetical 'what if'. What if we had won the lottery in '15? What if Frolik had loved Winnipeg so much he was willing to take a discount? What if _____ _____ _____ ?

Well I think there was an assumption being made we could click our fingers and acquire either one and like Winnik it might not have been possible with Weircoch at least. I don't think the "Winnipeg tax" will ever stop us from winning a cup here but we might not be able to sign every player and I think that goes for most teams that have made the playoffs once in a decade. If we start winning a bit here we will have even less issues. We just signed two decent UFA's so its not Siberia.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
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As I showed Kulikov has a 250 game sample at the bginning of his career as a quality top 4 dmen that posted solid all around results. Wether right or wrong Wericotch has never been given the opportunity to play a top 4 role. Yes killed it in an offensive minded third pair role.

I dont buy the Stuart angle at all imo despite his struggles the last few years Kulikov has a past track record of being able to contribute in a top 4 role. They likely see him as reclamation project that they hope get back to earlier career form.

He also better fits the age range of the team than Schemelko and if he regains form will be able to replace Toby.

There is definite risk of this signing not working out but I find a number of people are ignoring Kulikov's earlier body of work and just focusing on the last few years. I don't think anybody here is expecting him to magically turn into a impact top pairing dmen, but a return to a quality 2nd pairing player shouldn't be out of question considering he has already shown the ability to play at that level over a significant sample.

Agreed with your assessment. Kulikov IMO offers a chance at the bigger upgrade on D if we see the same player that started his career in Florida. I keep going back to that highly touted "can't miss" top 4 D prospect he came into the league as. He looked like he was getting there and then stalled out. If we see that player we are much improved over Stu/Chiarot.

Schemelko had to be a payback trade as every organization in the league would have traded a 5th for him. Just about every fan base was questioning why their GM didn't scoop him up as a give away. While Weircoch is an upgrade over Stu/Chiarot he has far less natural skill than Kilikov and certainly is not nearly as good of skater. We currently have the cap space so why not take a swing at more potential? Contract is short enough that Chevy still has the needed flexibility.
 

puck stoppa

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Jul 5, 2011
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Agreed with your assessment. Kulikov IMO offers a chance at the bigger upgrade on D if we see the same player that started his career in Florida. I keep going back to that highly touted "can't miss" top 4 D prospect he came into the league as. He looked like he was getting there and then stalled out. If we see that player we are much improved over Stu/Chiarot.

Schemelko had to be a payback trade as every organization in the league would have traded a 5th for him. Just about every fan base was questioning why their GM didn't scoop him up as a give away. While Weircoch is an upgrade over Stu/Chiarot he has far less natural skill than Kilikov and certainly is not nearly as good of skater. We currently have the cap space so why not take a swing at more potential? Contract is short enough that Chevy still has the needed flexibility.

I agree on all points. Weircioch is a good 6-7, I think kulikov can play second pair with Buff and be very effective.
 

Flair Hay

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I hate this more than the "Winnipeg Tax". There is always some hypothetical 'what if'. What if we had won the lottery in '15? What if Frolik had loved Winnipeg so much he was willing to take a discount? What if _____ _____ _____ ?

So you hate not knowing everything. Get over it cause that's the way it will always be. Why do so many around here argue in nothing but facts like it's a court of law? Common sense is allowed and should be encouraged...

We are nothing but a bunch of fans trying to put together a puzzle without all the pieces.

It's hilarious people are upset we got Kulikov instead of Schlemko or Wiercoch.
 

puck stoppa

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So you hate not knowing everything. Get over it cause that's the way it will always be. Why do so many around here argue in nothing but facts like it's a court of law? Common sense is allowed and should be encouraged...

We are nothing but a bunch of fans trying to put together a puzzle without all the pieces.

It's hilarious people are upset we got Kulikov instead of Schlemko or Wiercoch.

Don't be rational :rant: :laugh: Yup, interesting place lol
 

Constable

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Mar 17, 2014
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I am upset we got Kulikov because even cap-floor teams shouldn't be playing premiums on guys when better or similar options were available for the cheap.

MDZ+Wiercioch togehter does not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

Schlemko+Wiercioch+Auvitu as a group do not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

The Jets could have a great 2nd/3rd pair LHD plus 2 very good depth options, or a 2nd pair defenseman on our 3rd pair with a great depth option, instead we got a guy who may be a 2nd pair option but in all likeliness is a 3rd pairing guy.

This is very simple asset management and being able to afford to not manage your assets wisely does not make it OK to not manage your assets wisely. If you had 1 million dollars, would you spend half of that on a car when you can get a similar car for half the price and have money left to buy a yacht?
 

puck stoppa

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Jul 5, 2011
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I am upset we got Kulikov because even cap-floor teams shouldn't be playing premiums on guys when better or similar options were available for the cheap.

MDZ+Wiercioch togehter does not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

Schlemko+Wiercioch+Auvitu as a group do not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

The Jets could have a great 2nd/3rd pair LHD plus 2 very good depth options, or a 2nd pair defenseman on our 3rd pair with a great depth option, instead we got a guy who may be a 2nd pair option but in all likeliness is a 3rd pairing guy.

This is very simple asset management and being able to afford to not manage your assets wisely does not make it OK to not manage your assets wisely. If you had 1 million dollars, would you spend half of that on a car when you can get a similar car for half the price and have money left to buy a yacht?

Is this EA Sports? It takes two to tango, if only being GM was that easy :laugh:
 

KingBogo

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Nov 29, 2011
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I am upset we got Kulikov because even cap-floor teams shouldn't be playing premiums on guys when better or similar options were available for the cheap.

MDZ+Wiercioch togehter does not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

Schlemko+Wiercioch+Auvitu as a group do not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

The Jets could have a great 2nd/3rd pair LHD plus 2 very good depth options, or a 2nd pair defenseman on our 3rd pair with a great depth option, instead we got a guy who may be a 2nd pair option but in all likeliness is a 3rd pairing guy.

This is very simple asset management and being able to afford to not manage your assets wisely does not make it OK to not manage your assets wisely. If you had 1 million dollars, would you spend half of that on a car when you can get a similar car for half the price and have money left to buy a yacht?

And where were they going to store these 4th and 5th LHD options? The organization had one spot available and IMO chose who they believed had the best option to fill that position. Saying you could get multiple defenseman for the same price is next to meaningless as they would just get picked off waivers when you set your 23 man roster.
 

Say What

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Jan 18, 2015
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The issue with Kulikov isn't anything about upside- it's very simply cost control. If you triple the money Wiercioch got its still just slightly above half of what Kulikov got- and they do the exact same thing.

I am upset we got Kulikov because even cap-floor teams shouldn't be playing premiums on guys when better or similar options were available for the cheap.

MDZ+Wiercioch togehter does not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

Schlemko+Wiercioch+Auvitu as a group do not hold the same salary as Kulikov.

The Jets could have a great 2nd/3rd pair LHD plus 2 very good depth options, or a 2nd pair defenseman on our 3rd pair with a great depth option, instead we got a guy who may be a 2nd pair option but in all likeliness is a 3rd pairing guy.

This is very simple asset management and being able to afford to not manage your assets wisely does not make it OK to not manage your assets wisely. If you had 1 million dollars, would you spend half of that on a car when you can get a similar car for half the price and have money left to buy a yacht?


Says who. What are your credentials?

The Winnipeg Jets did not sign a 3rd pair defenseman (Wiercioch), IMO. If that's what you perceive Dmitry Kulikov to be, that's rightfully your opinion.
However, is it not fair to say that your opinion (like most on a forum) is solely based on knowledge you've formulated from the outside, looking in? Why present it as a superior position to what has actually transpired.

This....."it's very simply cost control", has no basis, whatsoever. It's fiction. Enlighten me, what are TNSE's current & future costs; that have now been forfeited control over (contracts-RFA rights, RFA/UFA signings/Arena upgrades/developmental-affiliation agreements, what?)? What costs are now out of TNSE's control? Pure fiction. Or, are you implying that TNSE didn't realize the amount that was being spent to acquire Dmitry. And that profits will now suffer from an ill-advised transaction. Back to the Boardroom, the budget is now unbalanced.

In my opinion, some get to look at the team through a magnifying glass, while others must see it through binoculars.
 

Flair Hay

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Kulikov is a defensive guy going to a team with bad team defense and PK. It's no suprise him and Alzner is who we were looking at. I think paying less for Kulikov was a better fit

Wiercoch would be an offensive 3rd pair guy who wouldn't help the PK and isn't needed on the PP.

All that would have happened if Chevy signed Wiercoch would be Chiarot would be playing over him... just like Postma lol ...no one seems to have mentioned this
 

Mortimer Snerd

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So you hate not knowing everything. Get over it cause that's the way it will always be. Why do so many around here argue in nothing but facts like it's a court of law? Common sense is allowed and should be encouraged...

We are nothing but a bunch of fans trying to put together a puzzle without all the pieces.

It's hilarious people are upset we got Kulikov instead of Schlemko or Wiercoch.

No. That's not it at all. What I hate is making imaginary excuses for everything that happens. Maybe this, maybe that. There is no end of maybes if you don't require any evidence to support them.

I'm not upset with getting Kulikov either. I think we overpaid. And I think a lot of people here have unrealistic expectations for him. I expect him to play well for us - but not up to the expectations some seem to have for him.

If he turns out to be a good fit with Buff he will play at a top 4 level with him. Chiarot played at a top 4 level, or close to it when he was with Buff. If he doesn't mesh well with Buff he will likely play with Myers. Either way he will be an upgrade.
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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No. That's not it at all. What I hate is making imaginary excuses for everything that happens. Maybe this, maybe that. There is no end of maybes if you don't require any evidence to support them.

I'm not upset with getting Kulikov either. I think we overpaid. And I think a lot of people here have unrealistic expectations for him. I expect him to play well for us - but not up to the expectations some seem to have for him.

If he turns out to be a good fit with Buff he will play at a top 4 level with him. Chiarot played at a top 4 level, or close to it when he was with Buff. If he doesn't mesh well with Buff he will likely play with Myers. Either way he will be an upgrade.

I agree his salary is higher than it should be based on comparative performance, but he's 26 and a UFA. The Jets gave up absolutely no assets for him as a UFA, so they had to pay a premium in salary. There might have been better options, but I think it was a reasonable signing, all things considered.
 

10Ducky10

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Kuli is only signed for 3 years...I am sure he would have gone down if we signed him for 5 or 6 years. The term on this deal is spot on. It gives guys like Niku, Samberg and Stanley time and he will be 2nd pair while Enstrom is fazed out. No matter what anyone says about the dollar value or term...the Jets D corps is better this season than last. Chevy adressed a weakness and people still complain. It's not like we gave up a Mark Pysyk and a 2nd rounder for him. I wonder if Maurice tries him with Trouba at all.
 

Pongs21

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Jul 18, 2011
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No. That's not it at all. What I hate is making imaginary excuses for everything that happens. Maybe this, maybe that. There is no end of maybes if you don't require any evidence to support them..

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/custance-no-trade-lists-hinder-cheveldayoff-in-trades-1.717441

I'm sure you've heard it, saw it, read it elsewhere.. Winnipeg is #1 on most no-trade lists and it also touches on Winnipeg being a place FA's don't want to go to. There's your evidence. It's not an excuse, it's a reality in some if not most cases. Until the Jets start being a playoff staple (which I think begins this year) I don't see that changing. It's not irrational to think that other markets are more attractive given their location, history, opportunity etc. Looking at WPG's depth chart on paper, compared to a more "favorable market" (MTL and VAN in this case), I can see why a bottom pairing/fringe 6/7 guy would rather sign elsewhere. "nicer climate/city" and probably more opportunity to be a mainstay and get better minutes.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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That's the nature of forums. Individuals have opinions that often differ from other individuals. :nod: Echo chambers are boring. ;)

Yes but the frequent 'what ifing' isn't an opinion. It is just imagining some possible universe - like 9 year old boys. The possibilities are literally limitless.

Well I think there was an assumption being made we could click our fingers and acquire either one and like Winnik it might not have been possible with Weircoch at least. I don't think the "Winnipeg tax" will ever stop us from winning a cup here but we might not be able to sign every player and I think that goes for most teams that have made the playoffs once in a decade. If we start winning a bit here we will have even less issues. We just signed two decent UFA's so its not Siberia.

You may be right about the bolded. Or the assumption may have been that we could have signed someone to use that way.
 

YWGinYYZ

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Yes but the frequent 'what ifing' isn't an opinion. It is just imagining some possible universe - like 9 year old boys. The possibilities are literally limitless.

Just ignore the posts and move on then - it's not against the rules to offer up / think about possibilities. Given the fact that none of us are flies on the wall when these trade discussions happen, putting out some "what ifs" is all we sometimes have.
 

Huffer

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Jul 16, 2010
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Just ignore the posts and move on then - it's not against the rules to offer up / think about possibilities. Given the fact that none of us are flies on the wall when these trade discussions happen, putting out some "what ifs" is all we sometimes have.

Agreed. Especially when the alternative is just to blame Chevy for every player not getting signed while ignoring the realities that players can make their decisions based on any number of factors.
 

Snowman

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I just don't understand people's obsession with signing deadweight from other teams. Weircoch, Barbiero. Yup, those guys make us Stanley Cup contenders. :sarcasm:
 

Bartho

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Agreed. Especially when the alternative is just to blame Chevy for every player not getting signed while ignoring the realities that players can make their decisions based on any number of factors.

Wait, are you saying players have a choice in where they sign and pointing to every player signing elsewhere as evidence of the Jets' management's incompetence is nothing but a HUGE "what if"?
 

Jet

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What are those injury concerns with Little? That's a term I'd use for Ladd or Kulikov, who played worse after their last surgery, or Myers, who hasn't played since. Little got injured, healed, then played the rest of the season scoring on a 65-point pace. No reports on lingering stuff like herniae or chronic back issues. After 7 seasons of missing an average of 5 games per season, he appeared in 11 less games than McDavid in the last two seasons.

Totally agreed. Saying Little has injury concerns is just not a serious argument. He isn't injury prone - the injuries he has suffered were a result of egregious play by an opponent. He has returned to form - even better, after injuries. His average for games played in his career is still over 60 which is pretty good for a smaller forward who is a center and takes a beating.

I think he is one of those guys who will play until he's 40 or close. He's smart and skilled, and I think will overcome speed issues as he ages.

I'd go max years with him in order to get the AAV down
 

Jet

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Kulikov is overpaid by about $2M by himself.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

He might be over market value for his recent performance but we won't know whether he earned his contract until he plays it out.

Besides, sometimes when you have a now need, you have to overpay - especially when you are not willing to give up assets for it.
 

Gm0ney

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Oct 12, 2011
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Can I borrow your crystal ball?

He might be over market value for his recent performance but we won't know whether he earned his contract until he plays it out.

Besides, sometimes when you have a now need, you have to overpay - especially when you are not willing to give up assets for it.

It's the same crystal ball that said Stu's contract was awful and told us to buy out Pavelec after the 2012-13 season. So, no, you can't borrow it! :laugh:
 
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