To bad we couldn't have resigned him for 3 years last year. After all, he will have already won one cup with us, so he will be more expensive.
Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2017-18
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kittiecarlyle
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- Nov 1, 2016
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You have as well as others, meant as a comment to the easy defacto "we can't" with the cap situation.
Of course you can, it would take moving players some would decalre untouchable perhaps but the options are there.
You have been shown what could be done to add a contract, whether you chose to ignore because you want to is entirely up to you. Just as it is to over react to any pending college FA, you have fretted over those ofte, and for no reason to date.
Gaining 3 million in cap space next doesn't provide options? Oh ok. Series of moves, it is called management and we actually have a GM that is really really really good at that.
If a player agrees then it is up to Cheveldayoff to make moves for the best interests of his team. Short & long term. Stastny was a great short term add, he could be more than that, dismissing that out of hand is inherently lazy.
Mason options:
Keep - Cap hit $4.1M
Trade - Cap hit retained $0 - $2.05M
Buyout - Cap hit $1.367M (in both 2018-19 and 2019-20)
LTIR - Cap hit $4.1M - $0 (Jets can go $4.1M over the cap)
But I don't think LTIR protects the Jets from bonus overages. If Mason is on LTIR and the Jets don't go over $80M (or whatever the cap ceiling ends up being), they don't have $4.1M to absorb bonus overages...do they?
Also, Mason actually has to be injured to go on LTIR - and there's no real reason to think he won't fully recover from a knee scope.
Keep - Cap hit $4.1M
Trade - Cap hit retained $0 - $2.05M
Buyout - Cap hit $1.367M (in both 2018-19 and 2019-20)
LTIR - Cap hit $4.1M - $0 (Jets can go $4.1M over the cap)
But I don't think LTIR protects the Jets from bonus overages. If Mason is on LTIR and the Jets don't go over $80M (or whatever the cap ceiling ends up being), they don't have $4.1M to absorb bonus overages...do they?
Also, Mason actually has to be injured to go on LTIR - and there's no real reason to think he won't fully recover from a knee scope.
Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
There's always lots of options for cheap players on the UFA market. Last year you can look at guys like Kuemper. In year's past there's been guys like Khudobin, Greiss, Dubnyk, etc. You can always find a "reclamation" project or a guy like Montoya out there for 1-1.5 million...if you have confidence in your #1 guy to go 60-65 games if the new guy doesn't work out. Jets did not have that last year which is why they had to go high with Mason. Next year I think they will have the confidence in Hellebuyck going forward.
mcpw
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No, I don't think I have. I have pointed out that everything comes with a price.
I have fretted over precisely 2 college FA's. One signed with us. The other is TBD. I discussed the pros and cons with people here who are interested in discussion and considered their points relative to my concerns.
I have not dismissed retaining Stastny 'out of hand'. I have said it would be painful. I have also done the work of coming up with real, specific, possible ways it could be done, rather than the inherently lazy alternative of imagining that Chevy can do anything that you might wish he could do.
Does gaining 3 mil in cap space provide options? That depends. What is it you want to do with it? If it is for signing Stastny for 5 years then no, it doesn't. That 3 mil is only for 1 year. We need 5. Coming up with 1/5th of a solution is lazy. Do the other 4/5ths. Actually it is less than 1/5th. We need about 5 mil, not 3 so it is 60% of 20%.
How about trading Perreault and Lowry? We have potential LW replacements for MP. They won't be as good as him, at least not yet. But they will be adequate for 3LW. That gets us 3+ mil for the next 3 years. In 3 more years, Buff's 7.6 mil contract expires. That will buy us some room. We need a little more though. Lowry will be pushed down if we keep Stastny and will make too much for a 4C. Copp is a pretty good 4C. Lowry would make at least 3 mil starting next year. Now we should have enough to retain Stastny plus we will have the returns for MP and Lowry.
Do we really want to lose those 2 in order to keep Stastny? That is the kind of price it will cost. Do we go ahead and sign Stastny first and then move the necessary pieces to make room? That would put us in a weak bargaining position. Or do we move those guys first and then try to sign Stastny? What if he then turns down our best offer and our players are gone? Well, at least we would have some cap space then.
I don't think I am being lazy here. Is there any way I could do more? I don't think Chevy would let me into his office to dial the phone for him. Lets see. I've used my imagination to come up with a possible solution. I've checked that everything is covered. I've done the arithmetic. Yup, I think my work here is done.
Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
Maybe. There's a long list of adequate guys you can get under two million next year. I'm guessing all of Cam Ward, Chad Johnson, Anton Khudobin, Ondrej Pavelec, and Harri Sateri go under 2 million and have shown fine in backup roles. Hard to say what happens with Kari Lehtonen, Jonathan Bernier, Carter Hutton, Jaroslav Halak but you might get one of those cheap. There's some interesting pieces that are RFA like Calvin Pickard, Petr Mrazek, Alex Lyon, Jon Gillies, Oscar Dansk, Marek Mazanec that might become UFA or will come very cheaply (late round pick). Lots and lots of options for a backup G on the cheap. Many interesting "reclamation" projects (Pickard, Mazanec, Sateri, and as always Khudobin pique my interest the most), the key will be identifying which to take.
Considering the very patchy performance of various players signed as backups or starters, any of these would have to be considered wild cards.
Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
And Steve Mason isn't? He is barely above .900 and can't stay healthy. If you can unload Mason for future considerations and save 2.5 million by signing a guy like Khudobin, Ward or Sateri why wouldn't you? Equally as unpredicatable. If that player implodes it will cost you like a 5th to get a stop gap next year, who cares.
Say What
Building a Legacy 4/28/96 Never again!!
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How ironic.
After all of the bellyaching about, "there is no plan....everyone drafts and develops, that's no plan....quit drinking the TNSE Kool-Aid", and my personal favorite "Mr. Dithers is too scared to take action, he just sits at the lake collecting his pay"; it now seems like many of the masses (detractors?) are 'drunk' on that very same 'Kool-Aid'. Wanting to trade away what is deemed "overpaid and/or overaged veterans".
So despite having a plan and following the 'process', some have concluded that the Winnipeg Jets roster is so formidable, that it can afford to be purged of 'proven' quality NHL players? I've read:
-Trade the Captain. Too expensive (next contract) and getting 'old'. (Blake Wheeler)
-Upgrade on the 2nd line Center. He won't live up to his contract. Plus he's slower now, must be getting 'old'. (Bryan Little)
-Re-sign/Sign a new 2C. A cost that will surely exceed the current 2C's AAV of 5.3M. (Paul Stastny/UFA)
-Trade a 1st pair D-man as soon as his contract allows. Too expensive in relation to 'perceived' production (old?). (Dustin Byfuglien)
-Trade the backup goaltender. Put all the eggs in one basket and hope that an injury to the 'starter' doesn't happen. (Steve Mason)
I guess we've arrived. Let's blow it up? I'll say this....Look at the current standings, the league parity, the thin line between winning a game or losing one. I'd venture a guess that a roster void of Blake, Bryan, Dustin and Steve might be worth the 8-10 points the Winnipeg Jets currently enjoy above the Playoff line. Each year is a grind, a struggle. It's pure fantasy to think the coming years will be anything but tougher.
Am I to understand that some posters truly believe that an Organization can jettison that kind of talent & experience, and replace it with youth(?); whilst incurring no negative consequences to the overall short & long-term health of the team/organization (rhetorical).
Draft & Develop, is the process of 'supplementing' a roster from within. It defeats the purpose if the organization trades away valuable players every time they age up, and/or demand increased dollars. That's the cost of business, however what's imperative, is how you manage such costs. To remain competitive you'd still be trying to attain those same types of assets on the open market, however, at an inflated cost. Retaining one's own talent is ultimately the best way to survive in a market such as Wpg, IMO. And yes, hard decisions will need to be made; it's difficult to keep everyone year over year (not always contract related).
For me, to truly breed a culture of winning (the attitudes, actions, ideas, etc.), it becomes essential to always have 'teachers', 'mentors', and 'leaders' as the foundation of future success. In my opinion, changing course at the first sign of success, is a recipe for disaster. To each their own. Time will tell.
After all of the bellyaching about, "there is no plan....everyone drafts and develops, that's no plan....quit drinking the TNSE Kool-Aid", and my personal favorite "Mr. Dithers is too scared to take action, he just sits at the lake collecting his pay"; it now seems like many of the masses (detractors?) are 'drunk' on that very same 'Kool-Aid'. Wanting to trade away what is deemed "overpaid and/or overaged veterans".
So despite having a plan and following the 'process', some have concluded that the Winnipeg Jets roster is so formidable, that it can afford to be purged of 'proven' quality NHL players? I've read:
-Trade the Captain. Too expensive (next contract) and getting 'old'. (Blake Wheeler)
-Upgrade on the 2nd line Center. He won't live up to his contract. Plus he's slower now, must be getting 'old'. (Bryan Little)
-Re-sign/Sign a new 2C. A cost that will surely exceed the current 2C's AAV of 5.3M. (Paul Stastny/UFA)
-Trade a 1st pair D-man as soon as his contract allows. Too expensive in relation to 'perceived' production (old?). (Dustin Byfuglien)
-Trade the backup goaltender. Put all the eggs in one basket and hope that an injury to the 'starter' doesn't happen. (Steve Mason)
I guess we've arrived. Let's blow it up? I'll say this....Look at the current standings, the league parity, the thin line between winning a game or losing one. I'd venture a guess that a roster void of Blake, Bryan, Dustin and Steve might be worth the 8-10 points the Winnipeg Jets currently enjoy above the Playoff line. Each year is a grind, a struggle. It's pure fantasy to think the coming years will be anything but tougher.
Am I to understand that some posters truly believe that an Organization can jettison that kind of talent & experience, and replace it with youth(?); whilst incurring no negative consequences to the overall short & long-term health of the team/organization (rhetorical).
Draft & Develop, is the process of 'supplementing' a roster from within. It defeats the purpose if the organization trades away valuable players every time they age up, and/or demand increased dollars. That's the cost of business, however what's imperative, is how you manage such costs. To remain competitive you'd still be trying to attain those same types of assets on the open market, however, at an inflated cost. Retaining one's own talent is ultimately the best way to survive in a market such as Wpg, IMO. And yes, hard decisions will need to be made; it's difficult to keep everyone year over year (not always contract related).
For me, to truly breed a culture of winning (the attitudes, actions, ideas, etc.), it becomes essential to always have 'teachers', 'mentors', and 'leaders' as the foundation of future success. In my opinion, changing course at the first sign of success, is a recipe for disaster. To each their own. Time will tell.
mcpw
WPG
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Why would a team trade future considerations for Mason if they could save 2.5 million by signing a guy like Khudobin, Ward or Sateri instead?
I just read that Philadelphia is probably not going to sign Filppula again. He's a very good option to replace Stastny if Stastny doesn't want to sign with Jets. Filppula should be a bit cheaper so easier to fit him in the cap space than Stastny. I think he would be a good Laine feeder as he has very good passing skills and he's a good reliable two way center. Good on defensive end.
Currently 7m Stastny (I believe St. Louis retained some), Filppula 5m but I think he can be signed for less.
Filppula's point production is still pretty decent. See for yourself: Valtteri Filppula Stats and News
Currently 7m Stastny (I believe St. Louis retained some), Filppula 5m but I think he can be signed for less.
Filppula's point production is still pretty decent. See for yourself: Valtteri Filppula Stats and News
Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
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Something that I think is really funny is how some people can lump other people into groups based on ideas they may not even share.
One person thinks we should trade Wheeler, old, anchor, blah, blah, blah. Another thinks we need to dump Little, too expensive, not the player he used to be, etc. A third person lumps those two together on an assumption that both of them want to move both Wheeler and Little.
You've read all those things but not all from the same poster(s). This post talks as though they were.
Anticipating problems and trying to nip them in the bud, AKA planning for the future is not the same thing as "changing course at the first sign of success". The trick is in accurately identifying those problems and in dealing with them successfully.
All that said you still make some good points but we will need to do some of those things at some point.
Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
Teams evaluate goalies differently and have different needs. If they are less sure their starter can go 60-70 games, they might feel Mason is more likely to be better at 40-50 games if needed than guys like Khudobin or Sateri who've never shown ability to play that much, or Ward who is consistently mediocre but can handle 10-20 games. Jets can take on more risk than other teams because of Hellebuyck.
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5mil is a lot when you are right next to the cap and you have Roslo who can feed Lanie and Ehlers.
There are some dumb GM's out there....but in general I agree and think the Jets might have to sweeten the deal to move the cap hit/money or eat it in some way.
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