Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/General Discussion XVII

[Lunatik]

You misspelled Steven Stamkos.

I meant to have 4 years there

 

[Johnny GODreau]

to a injury treatment centre? it might be in his best interest.

Not right now.

At the end of the season.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

So call it boredom first thing in the office, but looking over this thread:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2031117

Has got me thinking. I'm wondering if Burke/Treliving won't focus on almost NHL ready prospects instead of picks for our rentals. Would help with our cap situation next season if we can plug in cheap ELC players and potentially we don't have to wait for a pick to develop into something NHL ready.

I know we've talked about the A level prospects and young guys to death, but if we can get a B level prospect that is NHL ready ish and a mid round pick (gotta have those franchise winning 4th rounders!).

Players mentioned that interest me (or ones I've come up with myself):

- Rattie
- Khokhlachev
- Prince
- Ritchie
- Ryan Murphy
- Hagg
- Howden (not sure he's available)
- Matheson (not sure he's available)
- McCoshen (not sure he's available)
- Pulkinnen
- Sproul
- Hicketts
- Samsonov (not a B prospect, but goalie prospects are hard to get a value on)

Guys like that.

Not super familiar with the Isles prospects behind their big names, might be something there too?

 

[Dertell]

We have a billion of B prospects with contracts. If anything, we need to ship some of those out of the organization to make some space.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

We have a billion of B prospects with contracts. If anything, we need to ship some of those out of the organization to make some space.

I would not argue that we have a billion B level prospects. Quite the opposite in fact. B level to me means that they will be more than bottom pairing D or 4th line forwards.

A Level:
Gilles

B Level:
Janko
Poirier
Klimchuk
Hickey
Anderssen
Kylington
McDonald

C Level:
Grant
Kulak (Not as hyped as everyone else apparently)
Agostino
Arnold
Hamilton
Mangiapane (possibly B level, but I want to see how he does in pro)
Smith
Hathaway
Carroll
Wotherspoon (he's slipped for me)

The rest are longshots to have an impact NHL career.

Also, out of all the guys I listed as interested, most of them I would wager are pretty close to NHL ready and have some upside left in them. Most of our B prospects are not NHL ready. Maybe Janko next season, but out of the rest of the list they aren't NHL ready or aren't served best by playing limited minutes in the NHL.

 

[Volica]

The cap situation isn't actually half as bad as some folks are making it out to be.
48 million with Raymond in the NHL. Let's to be safe, call it 63 million with Monny and Johnny signed (saying around 8 & 7 Million dollar deals for the two). The cap will likely increase to about 74 million next season.

It leaves Calgary with 11 million in cap space with:
10 Forwards on contracts (3 RFA's that will make less than 1.5 million additionally).
6 Dmen
0 Goalies.

So, Flames will need 2 goalies; 1 top 4 Dman, 1-4 forwards depending on what we're looking for.

The goalie market is bad this year. There's really no one I see that's a 'must have' goalie. Maybe Cam Ward on a lower value contracts (3-4 million for a couple seasons, similar to Hiller) but Ramo might actually be one of the better guys available. I, more likely, see Treliving going out and getting himself a goalie in the off-season. Last year he was in on every single goalie that hit the market; I'm sure it'll be no different this year. I would be okay with Bernier, with Salary going back. Something like Smid + Lower tier prospect or 3rd for Bernier. That way we even out salary.

On defence there's a lot of guys available who could slot into that #4 spot for Calgary. Smid, if he's not moved for anything, is a buyout Candidate. You save almost 3 million dollars on his buyout in year 1 and a bit over 2 million in year two. That's a no brainer for me. Unless you can get someone to take on that contract (i.e a Bernier type deal I mentioned) there's no point in even thinking about keeping him on the roster.

With Smid bought out and Raymond in the minors, you're talking about an extra 4 million in cap space next year. I personally think with some maneuvering, BT could make a run at someone like Stamkos even. Not saying it'll happen, but I think if the right moves are made, it's possible.

Calgary's best bet is pretty simple, and I know some people are going to hate this:
Be bad. Continue to be a bad team, and lose a lot. 6th worst team in the league; it'd be best to get into that bottom 4. Give yourself a 10% chance at that 1 pick, and make sure you don't fall further than 7th (if above teams win). The top 4 in this draft are likely NHL ready this year. All four are big kids with tons of skill. It also helps with contracts, independent of if you pick 1 or 4, the kid'll get 925k/year and you have him cost controlled for the next three seasons.

Wideman is also a curious case. That's a big, big, big salary for a guy who's a bottom pairing PP specialist (at least this year). I haven't been on the Wideman hate train this season, to me, he's just overpaid for what he brings. He had a miracle season last year; but I think it's beyond what he'll ever bring in his career again. You can keep him for next season, or you can hope to find a team in the summer who misses out on a Dman and that has the space. A $5,25 million cap hit isn't the easiest thing to move, especially if your hope is to have no money coming back. If Calgary finds a buyer for Wideman, buys out Smid and keeps Raymond playing in the AHL; you're talking about $10 million in cap space next season.

I really don't see Calgary in a bind, and after next season, when Engelland and Raymond come off the books fully, you use the 5 million you saved there to pay Bennett. Then Stajan and Backlund to pay for this years top pick. It's just a cycle you have to continue

 

[slappipappi]

I think Sean will be Bridged around 5.5 M and Johnny's will slide in Salary from 5.5 up to 6.5 over 6-8 years for an AAV of 6

I doubt they sign Gaudreau long term and ask Monny to sign for 2 years, quite the insult.

And I think you are dreaming if you think Gaudreau to accept a AAV of $6M unless it is a bridge deal. Saad got 6 years, at $6M, and Johnny is among the NHL's scoring leaders.

If it's an 8 year deal, it will be about $7.5M. As you subtract years, the amount will go down per year, as you cover less UFA years.

 

[SaintMorose]

How exactly do you propose he sort it out? Please tell us.

After Gaudreau and Monahan are signed there will be about $11 million in cap space to sign 8 players. Remember the minimum salary is 550k.

Gaudreau - Monahan - _______
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - _______ - _______
Bouma - Stajan - ______
Bollig - _______

Giordano - Brodie
_______ - Hamilton
Wideman - Engelland
Smid

______
______


And now remember not all free agents will accept contract offers and not all GMs will be willing to make trades.

and go.

Scary part about this is there's very little we can do with the bloated contracts we have we aren't in a position to trade prospects or picks to cover the cap space, next year might be an nearly-oilers-esque pencilling in of prospects before camp or signing vets on longer term deals then they should be signed to.

Might not be the worst thing in the world to leave a spot open for Morrison/Kulak/Nakladal/Wotherspoon to fight over with Hickey and Andersson likely needing AHL spots next year better yet if we buyout Smid we can open 2 AHL spots and get the 2 best of those guys to rotate in 2/3rds of the games or more based on injuries.

For the forward core we need to be trying out guys at the nhl level post deadline and making a plan based on if we have 2 guys who could legitimately fight for each spot in camp or we need those barrier players on low contracts they'll be forced to out play during the season.

Best case scenario we have 3 prospects who prove that despite mediocre AHL stats they can contribute in the NHL where they have better supporting players or we scout and did some decent guys on 1 year show me contracts aside from those case we're likely going to improve very little next year and get stuck with a contract we don't want.

 

[FLAMES666]

That's should have said 4 years

I think I would do that. Its a lot to tie into 4 dman but thats an awesome top 4 for the next several years.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Scary part about this is there's very little we can do with the bloated contracts we have we aren't in a position to trade prospects or picks to cover the cap space, next year might be an nearly-oilers-esque pencilling in of prospects before camp or signing vets on longer term deals then they should be signed to.

Might not be the worst thing in the world to leave a spot open for Morrison/Kulak/Nakladal/Wotherspoon to fight over with Hickey and Andersson likely needing AHL spots next year better yet if we buyout Smid we can open 2 AHL spots and get the 2 best of those guys to rotate in 2/3rds of the games or more based on injuries.

For the forward core we need to be trying out guys at the nhl level post deadline and making a plan based on if we have 2 guys who could legitimately fight for each spot in camp or we need those barrier players on low contracts they'll be forced to out play during the season.

Best case scenario we have 3 prospects who prove that despite mediocre AHL stats they can contribute in the NHL where they have better supporting players or we scout and did some decent guys on 1 year show me contracts aside from those case we're likely going to improve very little next year and get stuck with a contract we don't want.

I feel like we can probably get a few bargains in free agency after the frenzy dies off and there are a few vets still looking for homes.

Hopefully anyways. Like 100TG shows in his post, I want three new bottom sixers at least. If we can fill them internally, great, if not then find some bargain vets willing to sign short term.

Our weak top six after the big guys is only compounded by the lack of good depth in the bottom six. Not much offense to speak of from it this season.

Edit: **** me, this free agent crop is awful after the top names. We might have to rely on internally for a few.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

I took my own challenge and it is terrible. I do not envy Treliving this summer.

Yeah the line up you made definitely looks better than something that I could muster up. I was considering Schlemko would be a good add as well. I think we will have to add to Engelland to get Bernier though, and I don't know jankowski is ready for the NHL. I think he needs a year in the AHL first but your guess is better than mine

 

[AgeOfBennett]

I feel like we can probably get a few bargains in free agency after the frenzy dies off and there are a few vets still looking for homes.

Hopefully anyways. Like 100TG shows in his post, I want three new bottom sixers at least. If we can fill them internally, great, if not then find some bargain vets willing to sign short term.

Our weak top six after the big guys is only compounded by the lack of good depth in the bottom six. Not much offense to speak of from it this season.

Edit: **** me, this free agent crop is awful after the top names. We might have to rely on internally for a few.

We have three open spots in the bottom six for next season. I think we should sign a cheap bottom six guy in FA and then the other two spots can be battled out by F. Hamilton, Arnold, Agostino, Shore, ect. I'm hoping we re sign grant too

 

[Flames Fanatic]

We have three open spots in the bottom six for next season. I think we should sign a cheap bottom six guy in FA and then the other two spots can be battled out by F. Hamilton, Arnold, Agostino, Shore, ect. I'm hoping we re sign grant too

I wouldn't mind someone who could actually chip in a little offense along with decent-good defensive play, because I don't know how much we are going to get out of the guys listed.

Ignoring our top six guys (Bennett, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler, Frolik) we have the following offense:

Colborne: 20 points (who in my opinion only has this many because of being spoodfed minutes for too long)
Jones: 14 points
Ferland: 10 points
Stajan: 9 points
Granlund: 7 points
Jooris: 7 points
Bollig: 2 points
Bouma: 1 point (**** me I didn't realize it was that bad)

For a total of 70 points if my math is correct. Its not completely awful, but it could use a slight boost if we could add even a 30 point guy or a pair of 20 point guys.

 

[FLAMES666]

Yeah the line up you made definitely looks better than something that I could muster up. I was considering Schlemko would be a good add as well. I think we will have to add to Engelland to get Bernier though, and I don't know jankowski is ready for the NHL. I think he needs a year in the AHL first but your guess is better than mine

I find college hockey players transition pretty good after spending a few years on there respective teams. Jankowski also has a really good defensive game which is a plus when coming to the NHL. Wouldn't be surprised to see him signed and play a few games at the end of this season so they have an idea what they have.

 

[SaintMorose]

Gaudreau - Monahan - FA
Granlund - Bennett - Frolik
Ferland - Backlund - Jankowski/Poirier
Bouma - Stajan - Hathaway/Hamilton/Elson
Bollig - Grant

Giordano - Brodie
Wideman - Hamilton
Nakladal/Kulak - Engelland
Wotherspoon

And then goaltending remains a mess. Would be good to see Ortio get some starts with Ramo out and see if we are going to bring him back or not.

 

[mtxed]

Andersen to CGY??

 

[Dertell]

Took on 100TG's "challenge".

How exactly do you propose he sort it out? Please tell us.

After Gaudreau and Monahan are signed there will be about $11 million in cap space to sign 8 players. Remember the minimum salary is 550k.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Frolik
Ferland - Monahan - Versteeg (4.4M)
Agostino (800k) - Backlund - Jooris (1.1M)
Bouma - Stajan - Poirier (863k)
Bollig - (unnecessary)

Giordano - Brodie
Wideman / Kulak - Hamilton
Kulak (656k) / Wideman - Nakladal (850k)
Engelland

Bernier (4.15M)
Poulin (650k)


And now remember not all free agents will accept contract offers and not all GMs will be willing to make trades.

and go.

Change in bold. A few notes:

- Traded Smid for Bernier. A small add might be needed.

- Signed some random AHL goalie to a AHL-only contract, so he doesn't take a roster spot.

- No. Ferland is not a top 6 forward.

All adds combined for approx. 9.97M$. Not that hard, really. Just need to add one FA and not keep every prospects in the AHL forever (the contract number is way too high already anyway).

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Took on 100TG's "challenge".


Change in bold. A few notes:

- Traded Smid for Bernier. A small add might be needed.

- Signed some random AHL goalie to a AHL-only contract, so he doesn't take a roster spot.

- No. Ferland is not a top 6 forward.

All adds combined for approx. 9.97M$. Not that hard, really. Just need to add one FA and not keep every prospects in the AHL forever (the contract number is way too high already anyway).

Edit: as my original was too crass, prepare for an unhappy 100TG's. He HATES Versteeg.

If we are going to target a UFA forward I too would not go after a guy who has bounced around as much as Versteeg. There is a reason and I doubt it is good.

Plus that forward group looks real bad to me still, and even putting Stamkos in there instead of Versteeg doesn't change it much. Gonna have to be content with a crappy forward core for at least one more year I think.

I don't want to be that guy that pencils in a top draft pick but god damn the team would look better with one of the top three if we got that lucky. Could roll two lines like Chicago does where the third player just has to fit in the spot.

Gaudreau-Monahan-x
x-Bennett-Matthews/Finn/Finn

 

[AgeOfBennett]

[mod]

If we are going to target a UFA forward I too would not go after a guy who has bounced around as much as Versteeg. There is a reason and I doubt it is good.

Plus that forward group looks real bad to me still, and even putting Stamkos in there instead of Versteeg doesn't change it much. Gonna have to be content with a crappy forward core for at least one more year I think.

I don't want to be that guy that pencils in a top draft pick but god damn the team would look better with one of the top three if we got that lucky. Could roll two lines like Chicago does where the third player just has to fit in the spot.

Gaudreau-Monahan-x
x-Bennett-Matthews/Finn/Finn

I feel like the way the season is going we are gonna pick fourth and miss out on Matthews and the Finns, but yeah if we got either one of them I would be ecstatic

 

[Dertell]

Forgot about Grant, but his cap can be replaced by someone else getting waived (or traded).

Edit: as my original was too crass, prepare for an unhappy 100TG's. He HATES Versteeg.

If we are going to target a UFA forward I too would not go after a guy who has bounced around as much as Versteeg. There is a reason and I doubt it is good.

Plus that forward group looks real bad to me still, and even putting Stamkos in there instead of Versteeg doesn't change it much. Gonna have to be content with a crappy forward core for at least one more year I think.

I don't want to be that guy that pencils in a top draft pick but god damn the team would look better with one of the top three if we got that lucky. Could roll two lines like Chicago does where the third player just has to fit in the spot.

Gaudreau-Monahan-x
x-Bennett-Matthews/Finn/Finn

You have no idea how much it saddens me I won't receive 100TG's approval.

Honestly, I picked Versteeg mostly because I thought it would be easier to sign him at a low-term deal (while also being a decent forward). I don't really care if a player changed of team frequently in his career if he gets the job done. Guys like Frolik and Stralman have bounced all over the place, too.

Would be ideal if we get a finn ofc.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I wouldn't mind someone who could actually chip in a little offense along with decent-good defensive play, because I don't know how much we are going to get out of the guys listed.

Ignoring our top six guys (Bennett, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler, Frolik) we have the following offense:

Colborne: 20 points (who in my opinion only has this many because of being spoodfed minutes for too long)
Jones: 14 points
Ferland: 10 points
Stajan: 9 points
Granlund: 7 points
Jooris: 7 points
Bollig: 2 points
Bouma: 1 point (**** me I didn't realize it was that bad)

For a total of 70 points if my math is correct. Its not completely awful, but it could use a slight boost if we could add even a 30 point guy or a pair of 20 point guys.

Dropping Backlund down to 3C and putting Bennett at 1C, Monahan at 2C will go a long way in boosting depth scoring.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If we are going to target a UFA forward I too would not go after a guy who has bounced around as much as Versteeg. There is a reason and I doubt it is good.

FWIW, three of Vertsteeg's stops were:

Dale Tallon's team (Blackhawks)
Dale Tallon's team (Panthers)
his Former team (Blackhawks)

 

[Johnny GODreau]

How exactly do you propose he sort it out? Please tell us.

After Gaudreau and Monahan are signed there will be about $11 million in cap space to sign 8 players. Remember the minimum salary is 550k.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Frolik
EDIT: Hartnell 4.75m - Bennett - Granlund 900k
Ferland - Backlund- Poirier 925k
Bouma - Arnold 800k - Shore 550k
Bollig - Gordon 1.0m

Giordano - Brodie
Wideman- Hamilton
Wotherspoon 600k- Engelland
Smid

Ramo 3.5m
Ortio 600k

And now remember not all free agents will accept contract offers and not all GMs will be willing to make trades.

and go.

I wanna play too..

Re-sign Karri Ramo 2 years (3m/4m)
Re-sign Joni Ortio 1 year 600k
Re-sign Markus Granlund 2 years 1.8m
Re-sign Bill Arnold 2 years 1.6m
Re-sign Tyler Wotherspoon 2 years 1.2m
Re-sign Drew Shore 1 year 550k

Sign Boyd Gordon 1.0m

Trade Matt Stajan to Columbus for Scott Hartnell + 1.625m

500k in capspace.

With the extra capspace why not Hartnell?

 

[AgeOfBennett]

I find college hockey players transition pretty good after spending a few years on there respective teams. Jankowski also has a really good defensive game which is a plus when coming to the NHL. Wouldn't be surprised to see him signed and play a few games at the end of this season so they have an idea what they have.

Worked well for Johnny

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I wanna play too..

Re-sign Karri Ramo 2 years (3m/4m)
Re-sign Joni Ortio 1 year 600k
Re-sign Joe Colborne 2 years 2.6m
Re-sign Markus Granlund 2 years 1.8m
Re-sign Bill Arnold 2 years 1.6m
Re-sign Tyler Wotherspoon 2 years 1.2m
Re-sign Drew Shore 1 year 550k

Seems most realistic 1.825m in capspace.
Same roster - Hudler yikes.

Same roster minus Hudler, Jones and Russell yeah.

God that forward core scares me so bad.