Round 2, Vote 2 (HOH Top Defensemen)

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Before we begin, just a recap on how Round 2 will operate:

Round 2

• The top 10 ranked players from the aggregate list will be posted in a thread
• Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
• Voters will rank their top 10 of the available defensemen
• Final results will be posted and the top 5 vote getters will be added to the final list in order.
• The process will be repeated for the next 5 places with remaining players until a list of 60 players is obtained

These might be tweaked to allow longer or shorter debating periods depending on how the process moves along.

Additionally, there are a couple guidelines we'd ask that everyone agree to abide by:

• Please try to stay on-topic in the thread
• Please remember that this is a debate on opinions and there is no right or wrong. Please try to avoid words like "stupid" "dumb" "wrong" "sophistry" etc. when debating.
• Please treat other debaters with respect
• Please don't be a wallflower. All eligible voters are VERY HIGHLY encouraged to be active participants in the debate.
• Please maintain an open mind. The purpose of the debate is to convince others that your views are more valid. If nobody is willing to accept their opinions as flexible there really is no point in debating.

Eliglible Voters (23):
BiLLY_ShOE1721, Canadiens1958, chaosrevolver, DaveG, Dennis Bonvie, Der Kaiser, Dreakmur, Epsilon, Hardyvan123, Hawkey Town 18, Hockey Outsider, intylerwetrust, JaysCyYoung, McNuts, MXD, overpass, pappyline, reckoning, seventieslord, TheDevilMadeMe, tarheelhockey, tony D, VanIslander

All posters are encouraged to participate in the debates and discussions, but only those listed above will be eligible for the final votes.

On that note, we hope everyone is ready to wrack their brains and debate against some of the best hockey minds on the 'net! Have fun!

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Vote 2 will begin now and debates will run through Monday 11/21. Any extension to this time frame will be announced prior to the deadline. Votes must be submitted no later than 6PM EST on Monday 11/21, and voting will run until this time or until all voters have sent their vote in, whichever comes first. THESE DEADLINES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE SO PLEASE READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD.

Please PM votes to me, beginning on Saturday 11/19. I will be sending out confirmations when I receive ballots from the voters. Any voter who does not get a confirmation within 24 hours of submitting a ballot should assume I never received it and should either resubmit it or contact me to arrange a different method to submit the ballots.

PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU WILL VOTE FOR YOUR TOP 10 OUT OF THE POOL OF ELIGIBLE PLAYERS.

Vote 2 will be for places 6 through 10 on the Top 60 list.

Here are the candidates, listed alphabetically:

Chris Chelios
King Clancy
Paul Coffey
Viacheslav Fetisov
Leonard "Red" Kelly
Al MacInnis
Brad Park
Pierre Pilote
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson

 

[Epsilon]

Al Mac is the first player who wasn't in my top 10 (for the top 10 list) or top 15 (for the 5-15 list), so he's going on the bottom unless someone wants to make a really compelling argument for him over any of the other guys.

I'll try to get around to that Robinson-Chelios comparison I wanted to make last round.

 

[Hardyvan123]

for me Potvin and Kelly are frontrunners for different reasons.

Potvin quite simply had the best start and biggest consecutive playoff impact of all the players listed here.

Fetisov is a guy I really wrestle over as his NHL resume is really quite weak and other have shown much better after 30 careers.

It leads me to think that maybe the 5man unit he was on was greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Al Mac is the first player who wasn't in my top 10 (for the top 10 list) or top 15 (for the 5-15 list), so he's going on the bottom unless someone wants to make a really compelling argument for him over any of the other guys.

Same here. It'll take a good argument for me not to rank Al 10th out of these 10 players. Great defenseman, but I see him more in the same tier as Scott Stevens and Chris Pronger than the guys who are up now.

for me Potvin and Kelly are frontrunners for different reasons.

Potvin quite simply had the best start and biggest consecutive playoff impact of all the players listed here.

Fetisov is a guy I really wrestle over as his NHL resume is really quite weak and other have shown much better after 30 careers.

It leads me to think that maybe the 5man unit he was on was greater than the sum of it's parts.

Likewise. I think Potvin and Kelly are clearly the class of the NHL players here, with only Fetisov a possiblity to break into my top 2. I think that Kelly's time at center is actually making people underrate what he did as a defenseman. He played in Detroit for almost 13 seasons, and was primarily a defenseman for this entire time. All his all-star nods and Hart nominations were as a defenseman. As far as I'm concerned, his extra 7 seasons in Toronto as a center just give him bonus points for extra longevity as a productive player.

Definitely interested in a Fetisov/Robinson/Chelios comparison, as well.

 

[Canadiens1958]

1985 Car Accident

for me Potvin and Kelly are frontrunners for different reasons.

Potvin quite simply had the best start and biggest consecutive playoff impact of all the players listed here.

Fetisov is a guy I really wrestle over as his NHL resume is really quite weak and other have shown much better after 30 careers.

It leads me to think that maybe the 5man unit he was on was greater than the sum of it's parts.

After the 1985 car accident in which his younger brother was killed. Slava Fetsov wa never the same player. Pre accident going back to junior days he was the equal of Ray Bourque.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Red Kelly

Same here. It'll take a good argument for me not to rank Al 10th out of these 10 players. Great defenseman, but I see him more in the same tier as Scott Stevens and Chris Pronger than the guys who are up now.



Likewise. I think Potvin and Kelly are clearly the class of the NHL players here, with only Fetisov a possiblity to break into my top 2. I think that Kelly's time at center is actually making people underrate what he did as a defenseman. He played in Detroit for almost 13 seasons, and was primarily a defenseman for this entire time. All his all-star nods and Hart nominations were as a defenseman. As far as I'm concerned, his extra 7 seasons in Toronto as a center just give him bonus points for extra longevity as a productive player.

Definitely interested in a Fetisov/Robinson/Chelios comparison, as well.

Not so fast. Previously I showed that during first 10 season of Red Kelly career, the teams GAA average rose during 5 out of the 10 playoff runs despite having 10 consecutive years of HHOF goaltenders. During his last three seasons with Detroit Kelly was effectively replaced by Marcel Pronovost(1 - 1st AST and 2- 2nd team AST selections, while Kelly had 0 AST selections on defense after the 1956-57 season) as the Red Wings #1 defenseman.

After 10 seasons the other NHL defensemen being considered did not show such slippage nor did their teams Playoff defense decline as much during their prime. 6th or 7th might be a bit high for Kelly.

 

[MXD]

Chris Chelios
King Clancy
Paul Coffey
Viacheslav Fetisov
Leonard "Red" Kelly
Al MacInnis
Brad Park
Pierre Pilote
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson

Hummm...
Coffey and McInnis weren't in my Top-15 (actually, weren't in my remaining Top-10, but since the original top-10 went exactly as in my list...
And honestly, I'm a bit surprised to see McInnis.

 

[overpass]

for me Potvin and Kelly are frontrunners for different reasons.

Potvin quite simply had the best start and biggest consecutive playoff impact of all the players listed here.

Fetisov is a guy I really wrestle over as his NHL resume is really quite weak and other have shown much better after 30 careers.

It leads me to think that maybe the 5man unit he was on was greater than the sum of it's parts.

I completely agree that the Green Unit was greater than the sum of its parts. They had incredible chemistry from years of playing together.

I thought they looked as good as any five man unit Canada had in 1987. Including Gretzky, Lemieux, Bourque, etc. While they were all very skilled individuals, their spacing, timing, movement, and passing was the best I have ever seen.

So while the Green Unit was more than the sum of its parts, I don't think that should keep Fetisov from being considered a top 10 defenceman. The individual players from the 80s Soviets are already being ranked below 80s Canadian players, based on past lists and drafts on this site. Nobody is ranking Larionov with Gretzky, or Makarov with Lemieux, or Krutov with Messier, or Fetisov with Bourque, or Kasatonov with Coffey. Everybody applies a "chemistry discount."

Re: Potvin, I have him a strong #1 this round. In some ways he fits better with the 5 d-men already selected than he does with this group. Elite offence, defence, leadership, impact on a winning team...the only thing you can question is that he played 15 years instead of 20.

 

[plusandminus]

Chris Chelios
King Clancy
Paul Coffey
Viacheslav Fetisov
Leonard "Red" Kelly
Al MacInnis
Brad Park
Pierre Pilote
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson

No Salming or other European at all added. So only 2 out of 15 highest on original long list were European.

Overall, this looks like a more easy group to discuss, as all but Clancy are relatively recent players. Park, Robinson, Potvin, Coffey, Chelios, MacInnis had very overlapsing careers, and most (not Robinson) appeared in international tournaments.

By the way, some seem to miss the "a" in MacInnis. Speaking of him, I recently posted a thread where I asked about him: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=985297. A nice discussion about him occured.

Interesting and surprising to later on in this thread see C1958 compare Fetisov to Bourque!

 

[Canadiens1958]

Old Problem

I completely agree that the Green Unit was greater than the sum of its parts. They had incredible chemistry from years of playing together.

I thought they looked as good as any five man unit Canada had in 1987. Including Gretzky, Lemieux, Bourque, etc. While they were all very skilled individuals, their spacing, timing, movement, and passing was the best I have ever seen.

So while the Green Unit was more than the sum of its parts, I don't think that should keep Fetisov from being considered a top 10 defenceman. The individual players from the 80s Soviets are already being ranked below 80s Canadian players, based on past lists and drafts on this site. Nobody is ranking Larionov with Gretzky, or Makarov with Lemieux, or Krutov with Messier, or Fetisov with Bourque, or Kasatonov with Coffey. Everybody applies a "chemistry discount."

Re: Potvin, I have him a strong #1 this round. In some ways he fits better with the 5 d-men already selected than he does with this group. Elite offence, defence, leadership, impact on a winning team...the only thing you can question is that he played 15 years instead of 20.

You touch on an old problem that pre-dates the Green Unit by generations. 1930's Red Wings as a team were superior than the sum of the parts. Maple Leaf and Canadiens where players on certain line combos and pairings are underappreciated - Stanley/Horton, Dave Keon, Ted Kennedy, Henri Richard, Jacques Lemaire. Alex Delvecchio on the Red Wings gets eclipsed by Howe and Kelly.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Re: Potvin, I have him a strong #1 this round. In some ways he fits better with the 5 d-men already selected than he does with this group. Elite offence, defence, leadership, impact on a winning team...the only thing you can question is that he played 15 years instead of 20.

I'm in the same boat. It seems like a top-6 rather than a top-5. I'd listen to an argument to have someone else over Potvin, but it would have to be a pretty compelling case. Fetisov is the only one I can imagine making that case, since he is more of a wildcard due to his non-NHL time.

After 10 seasons the other NHL defensemen being considered did not show such slippage nor did their teams Playoff defense decline as much during their prime. 6th or 7th might be a bit high for Kelly.

This is interesting. I had Kelly 7th but would be open to moving him down if there's a good argument for someone else.

Other thoughts on these guys:
- I feel like Brad Park is toward the lower end of the spectrum here. Agree/disagree?
- Where the heck do we put Coffey? He's almost certainly 2nd or better all-time on the offensive side of the puck. But I've heard a very wide range of analysis on his defensive game. Also, he never struck me as a guy who had any leadership quality whatsoever. How do we balance that out?
- Personally I feel like Clancy is consistently overrated due to the spotlight of playing in Toronto, having a long and successful post-playing career, and being a very likeable individual. If he had an identical playing career in Chicago, as a quiet and reserved personality, and became a mechanic instead of a hockey exec, would he get the same ranking?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I completely agree that the Green Unit was greater than the sum of its parts. They had incredible chemistry from years of playing together.

I thought they looked as good as any five man unit Canada had in 1987. Including Gretzky, Lemieux, Bourque, etc. While they were all very skilled individuals, their spacing, timing, movement, and passing was the best I have ever seen.

So while the Green Unit was more than the sum of its parts, I don't think that should keep Fetisov from being considered a top 10 defenceman. The individual players from the 80s Soviets are already being ranked below 80s Canadian players, based on past lists and drafts on this site. Nobody is ranking Larionov with Gretzky, or Makarov with Lemieux, or Krutov with Messier, or Fetisov with Bourque, or Kasatonov with Coffey. Everybody applies a "chemistry discount."

Re: Potvin, I have him a strong #1 this round. In some ways he fits better with the 5 d-men already selected than he does with this group. Elite offence, defence, leadership, impact on a winning team...the only thing you can question is that he played 15 years instead of 20.

Well, other than the fact that Potvin only won 3 Norrises. I realize injuries were a factor there, but that's the way the hockey puck bounces.

I'd make a case for Kelly here, but I'm sure Hockey Outsider will, and I'll just build off what HO says.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This will be the second (and I'm sure last) time when it will be very hard to change my top 5 (the five guys who were available last time), though I'm up for switching around the order in the Top 5. I'll focus mostly on those guys later on, but first some preliminary thoughts on the new guys:

Paul Coffey - I had him 11th on my original list, but now think that was perhaps too high. Or maybe not. He's one of the hardest defensemen to rate, but something has to be said for the fact that his offensive stats would be high enough to make him a top 100 all-time player even if he were a one-dimensional forward, right? I could see myself ranking him anywhere from 6-10 out of the 10 available defensemen.

King Clancy & Pierre Pilote - I think they're in the same tier as Brad Park (and perhaps Coffey). I rate them just a tad higher than Park, partly because I think they were more impactful in the playoffs (not that Park wasn't good himself), but also because I think they were more historically significantly than Park. I have Clancy just a tiny hair over Pilote because I think he was a better leader. Yeah... "leadership" might not be much, but it works as a tie-breaker for me.

Brad Park - great defenseman; I think he's a small but clear step down from Chelios among post-expansion defensemen. Ranking him 14th on my initial list was one of the easiest rankings I had to make, though perhaps I could raise him a spot, depending on what I think of Coffey.

Al MacInnis - as I said before, I think he probably belongs in the next tier of defensemen with guys like Scott Stevens and Chris Pronger, rather than this one. (Note this is my personal opinion, not a statement as an admin as to who will be available next).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Not so fast. Previously I showed that during first 10 season of Red Kelly career, the teams GAA average rose during 5 out of the 10 playoff runs despite having 10 consecutive years of HHOF goaltenders. During his last three seasons with Detroit Kelly was effectively replaced by Marcel Pronovost(1 - 1st AST and 2- 2nd team AST selections, while Kelly had 0 AST selections on defense after the 1956-57 season) as the Red Wings #1 defenseman.

After 10 seasons the other NHL defensemen being considered did not show such slippage nor did their teams Playoff defense decline as much during their prime. 6th or 7th might be a bit high for Kelly.

I don't know what the bolded statement is supposed to prove, to be honest. During Kelly's 10 year prime (is that really shorter than Potvin's prime?), the Wings GAA increased 50% of the time in the playoffs and decreased 50% of the time? Sounds pretty... typical. This was mainly in the 1950s, the only decade in history when average playoff scoring went up, largely because a higher percentage of games involved the stacked Montreal Canadiens than in the regular season. (From 1951-1960, the Canadiens made the finals in EVERY season, meaning they were involved in 2/3 playoff series each season).

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Pear Juice]

For me personally, I believe Potvin sits in the front seat for now. Fetisov and Kelly are the most likely to challenge him. Fetisov's time at CSKA Moscow is actually quite similar both in length, leadership and dominance to Potvin's time as a pinnacle defender (1974-1985) at the Isles.

Fetisov played much longer than Potvin past his prime. Him not being the same kind of player we saw during the 80s could be due to numerous factors. The afore-mentioned car accident, his move to the US, his fallout with Tikhonov, his breakup with longtime friend Alexei Kasatonov (which they still haven't resolved) and him missing his former line mates. Many difficult things hit Fetisov during a rather small time frame. Few players have had to cope with such massive changes during their careers.

----------------------------------------

Paul Coffey is probably the hardest pill to digest. Where in the world do I rank him? Such a massive, nearly unprecedented contribution on the offensive side, yet so many question marks regarding basically everything else. Physical play? Defensive awareness? Positional play? Leadership? Few people seem to describe him as bad defensively, but he's absolutely not a top defensive contributor. It'll take a well calibrated balance to figure out the curious case that is Paul Coffey.

-----------------------------------------

I have to agree with the above posters that Al MacInnis need some very well-presented arguments to make my top names from this round. I don't think he's that far off from the bottom end though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Personally I feel like Clancy is consistently overrated due to the spotlight of playing in Toronto, having a long and successful post-playing career, and being a very likeable individual. If he had an identical playing career in Chicago, as a quiet and reserved personality, and became a mechanic instead of a hockey exec, would he get the same ranking?

I think it's too early for Clancy to go in this round, but he'll be near the top of my list in the next round. Offensively, he was behind Shore, but as close to Shore as to the pack, and defensively, there is reason to believe he was Shore's equal.

 

[Pear Juice]

I think it's too early for Clancy to go in this round, but he'll be near the top of my list in the next round. Offensively, he was behind Shore, but as close to Shore as to the pack, and defensively, there is reason to believe he was Shore's equal.

I always got the impression that Clancy was considered on a slightly higher level than Shore defensively. I've read that Shore was mean and nasty on the defense but a bit overzealous at times, compared to other more stabile defenders such as Clancy or Hitchman.

 

[tony d]

Paul Coffey will certainly be an interesting case, he was known for being all offense, I chose him at #10 on my list but I'm wondering how others will view him.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Others

I'm in the same boat. It seems like a top-6 rather than a top-5. I'd listen to an argument to have someone else over Potvin, but it would have to be a pretty compelling case. Fetisov is the only one I can imagine making that case, since he is more of a wildcard due to his non-NHL time.



This is interesting. I had Kelly 7th but would be open to moving him down if there's a good argument for someone else.

Other thoughts on these guys:
- I feel like Brad Park is toward the lower end of the spectrum here. Agree/disagree?
- Where the heck do we put Coffey? He's almost certainly 2nd or better all-time on the offensive side of the puck. But I've heard a very wide range of analysis on his defensive game. Also, he never struck me as a guy who had any leadership quality whatsoever. How do we balance that out?
- Personally I feel like Clancy is consistently overrated due to the spotlight of playing in Toronto, having a long and successful post-playing career, and being a very likeable individual. If he had an identical playing career in Chicago, as a quiet and reserved personality, and became a mechanic instead of a hockey exec, would he get the same ranking?

Brad Park - finishing second to Bobby Orr has to be explored in a critical light. How close was the gap or was it far apart?

Paul Coffey. The relationship with Scotty Bowman who traded him away twice could be very revealing?

King Clancy. Let's not overlook the Ottawa years, member of 2 SC championship teams.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Comparables

I don't know what the bolded statement is supposed to prove, to be honest. During Kelly's 10 year prime (is that really shorter than Potvin's prime?), the Wings GAA increased 50% of the time in the playoffs and decreased 50% of the time? Sounds pretty... typical. This was mainly in the 1950s, the only decade in history when average playoff scoring went up, largely because a higher percentage of games involved the stacked Montreal Canadiens than in the regular season. (From 1951-1960, the Canadiens made the finals in EVERY season, meaning they were involved in 2/3 playoff series each season).

Much ado about nothing.

Doug Harvey and the Canadiens saw a favourable 8 and 2 swing between regular season and playoffs. Basic issue is that during the eras applicable time frames the Red Wings were upset by the third place team three times plus every year in the playoffs they had a HHOF goalie while the third place team did not.

What happened to the defense and what was Kelly's role?

 

[JaysCyYoung]

Re: Potvin, I have him a strong #1 this round. In some ways he fits better with the 5 d-men already selected than he does with this group. Elite offence, defence, leadership, impact on a winning team...the only thing you can question is that he played 15 years instead of 20.

I would agree with this line of reasoning.

I think that Potvin fits more in the upper-tier of the top ten names than he does with the bottom-tier, which makes him an interesting case. The stellar leadership and status as the best player (Trottier included) on one of the most dominant NHL dynasties in league history, the numerous times leading the upstart Islanders in team scoring despite being a defenceman, the intimidation and physical factor (which altered opposing coach's game plans simply due to his presence), the Calder and the three Norris Trophies is simply too compelling of a resume to overlook.

I think that he's the clear-cut consensus top guy here amongst the new top ten we're evaluating unless someone manages to formulate a convincing argument that Potvin shouldn't be ranked in the top spot. Only Kelly really challenges him as far as peak is judged.

 

[pdd]

I would agree with this line of reasoning.

I think that Potvin fits more in the upper-tier of the top ten names than he does with the bottom-tier, which makes him an interesting case. The stellar leadership and status as the best player (Trottier included) on one of the most dominant NHL dynasties in league history, the numerous times leading the upstart Islanders in team scoring despite being a defenceman, the intimidation and physical factor (which altered opposing coach's game plans simply due to his presence), the Calder and the three Norris Trophies is simply too compelling of a resume to overlook.

I think that he's the clear-cut consensus top guy here amongst the new top ten we're evaluating unless someone manages to formulate a convincing argument that Potvin shouldn't be ranked in the top spot. Only Kelly really challenges him as far as peak is judged.

Really? You don't think Coffey's peak is as good as Potvin's? Coffey won two consecutive Norrises, finishing third in scoring in 85-86 with 138 points, behind Gretzky's best year at 215, and a 141-point effort from Mario Lemieux. He finished second behind Gretzky in 83-84. He finished top-five in scoring three times, with two more sixth-place finishes and a ninth-place finish. He was not a Scott Stevens or Adam Foote defensively but he wasn't going to cost your team the game. I bet Edmonton fans wished they still had Coffey when Steve Smith scored in 1989...

The only thing preventing Coffey from ever seriously challenging for the Hart during his peak is the fact that he played with Gretzky; and he still finished as high as fourth. Which is almost as silly as Gretzky and Fuhr both being finalists in 1988. I do wonder how many writers actually put two players from the same team on one ballot for most valuable player.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think that Potvin fits more in the upper-tier of the top ten names than he does with the bottom-tier, which makes him an interesting case. The stellar leadership and status as the best player (Trottier included) on one of the most dominant NHL dynasties in league history, the numerous times leading the upstart Islanders in team scoring despite being a defenceman, the intimidation and physical factor (which altered opposing coach's game plans simply due to his presence), the Calder and the three Norris Trophies is simply too compelling of a resume to overlook.

It's dawning on me that Potvin went almost undiscussed in the previous (top-5) thread due largely to the epic Bourque/Lidstrom saga. That may have been a mistake on our part as a Potvin/Lidstrom comparison suddenly seems like the more relevant debate.

Of course it's over now, but this seems kind of unfortunate in retrospect.

 

[JaysCyYoung]

I figured it would be helpful to look at each respective player's place in NHL scoring amongst defenders, as we did in the previous round of voting, and go from there. Kelly's placements might be a little inaccurate due to the fact that he purportedly played at LW for 25 games in the 1957-58 season (I believe Canadiens1958 pointed out as much in the previous thread) and might be getting "double credit" for points accumulated at forward.

I apologize if this leads to any inconsistencies or inaccuracies in the statistics and would be happy to alter the table as we gain a greater knowledge of how his positional rotation worked out during his Red Wings career. Also, it should be noted that I have not listed Viacheslav Fetisov amongst the list of nine primarily NHL defenders as I have not come around any site that accurately records individual Soviet Championship League seasons (the primary league in Russia and the surrounding Soviet states from 1946-1992). If anyone can find a listing that would provide accurate, detailed statistics from a reliable source pertaining to SCL statistics I would be happy to include Fetisov and his placement amongst all Soviet blue-liners on this list.

Using NHL.com as a source (they have numbers going back to the first NHL season in 1917-18):

# | name | Top-1 | Top-3 | Top-5 | Top-10
1 | Paul Coffey | 8 | 11 | 13 | 15
2 | Red Kelly | 5 | 9 | 11 | 12
3 | Pierre Pilote | 5 | 8 | 10 | 10
4 | Al MacInnis | 3 | 8 | 9 | 15
5 | Denis Potvin | 3 | 7 | 8 |10
6 | King Clancy | 2 | 9 | 14 | 15
7 | Larry Robinson | 1 | 3 | 5 | 6
8 | Brad Park | 0 | 4 | 4 | 11
9 | Chris Chelios | 0 | 0 | 3 | 8

The season-by-season offensive finishes of the aforementioned defenders listed in the table above as compiled in the previous thread by myself (the new entries into the competition have had their seasons added as well):

Paul Coffey:

Season | Rank
80/81 | 45th
81/82 | 1st
82/83 | 1st
83/84 | 1st
84/85 | 1st
85/86 | 1st
86/87 | 5th
87/88 | 5th
88/89 | 1st
89/90 | 1st
90/91 | 3rd
91/92 | 7th
92/93 | 2nd
93/94 | 6th
94/95 | 1st
95/96 | 3rd
96/97 | 29th
97/98 | T-44th
98/99 | T-85th
99/00 | 16th
00/01 | T-211th*

*injury-prone final season with Boston - just 18 GP. (not included in final rankings)

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 8
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 13th (best five seasons rank: 1st)

Leonard "Red" Kelly:

Season | Rank
47/48| 4th
48/49| 5th
49/50| 1st
50/51| 1st
51/52| 1st
52/53| 1st
53/54| 1st
54/55| 2nd
55/56| 2nd
56/57| 3rd
57/58| 3rd
58/59| 11th
59/60| 6th

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 5
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 3rd (best five seasons rank: 1st)

Pierre Pilote:

Season | Rank
55/56| 25th
56/57| 11th
57/58| 5th
58/59| 3rd
59/60| 1st
60/61| 2nd
61/62| 2nd
62/63| 4th
63/64| 1st
64/65| 1st
65/66| 1st
66/67| 1st
67/68| 6th
68/69| 27th

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 5
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 6th (best five seasons rank: 1st)

Al MacInnis:

Season | Rank
81/82 | T-188th*
82/83 | T-152nd**
83/84 | T-26th
84/85 | 8th
85/86 | T-6th
86/87 | 3rd
87/88 | 2nd
88/89 | 3rd
89/90 | 2nd
90/91 | 1st
91/92 | T-4th
92/93 | T-19th
93/94 | 3rd
94/95 | T-18th
95/96 | 10th
96/97 | T-16th
97/98 | 10th
98/99 | 1st
99/00 | 20th
00/01 | 6th
01/02 | 10th
02/03 | 1st
03/04 | T-233rd***

*partial rookie season - just 2 GP. (not included in final rankings)
**partial rookie season - just 14 GP. (not included in final rankings)
***partial injured season - just 3 GP. (not included in final rankings)

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 3
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 8th (best five seasons rank: 1st)

Denis Potvin:

Season | Rank
73/74 | 5th
74/75 | 2nd
75/76 | 1st
76/77 | 2nd
77/78 | 1st
78/79 | 1st
79/80 | T-20th
80/81 | 2nd
81/82 | 11th
82/83 | 10th
83/84 | 3rd
84/85 | 7th
85/86 | 14th
86/87 | T-23rd
87/88 | 18th

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 3
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 8th (best five seasons rank: 1st)

King Clancy:

Season | Rank
21/22| 5th
22/23| 8th
23/24| 2nd
24/25| 2nd
25/26| 5th
26/27| 2nd
27/28| 5th
28/29| 2nd
29/30| 1st
30/31| 3rd
31/32| 3rd
32/33| 3rd
33/34| 1st
34/35| 5th
35/36| 4th
36/37| T-31st*

*partial injured season - just 6 GP. (not included in final rankings)

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 2
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 3rd (best five seasons rank: 2nd)

Larry Robinson:

Season | Rank
72/73 | T-95th*
73/74 | 33rd
74/75 | 5th
75/76 | 16th
76/77 | 1st
77/78 | 5th
78/79 | 7th
79/80 | 2nd
80/81 | 25th
81/82 | 14th
82/83 | 11th
83/84 | 30th
84/85 | 22nd
85/86 | 3rd
86/87 | 13th
87/88 | T-29th
88/89 | T-46th
89/90 | T-31st
90/91 | T-59th
91/92 | T-104th

*partial rookie season - just 36 GP.

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 1
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 28th (best five seasons rank: 3rd)

Brad Park:

Season | Rank
68/69 | 19th
69/70 | 6th
70/71 | 6th
71/72 | 2nd
72/73 | 3rd
73/74 | 2nd
74/75 | 8th
75/76 | 6th
76/77 | 6th
77/78 | 2nd
78/79 | 22nd
79/80 | 64th*
80/81 | 7th
81/82 | 15th
82/83 | 38th
83/84 | 10th
84/85 | 27th

*partial injured season - just 32 GP.

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 0
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 14th (best five seasons rank: 3rd)

Chris Chelios:

Season | Rank
83/84| T-168th*
84/85| 10th
85/86| 38th**
86/87| T-19th
87/88| 9th
88/89| 4th
89/90| 43rd
90/91| 8th
91/92| T-13th
92/93| 9th
93/94| 12th
94/95| T-5th
95/96| 4th
96/97| 8th
97/98| T-21st
98/99| 19th
99/00| T-30th
00/01| T-224th***
01/02| T-17th
02/03| T-75th
03/04| T-70th
05/06| T-148th
06/07| T-144th
07/08| T-136th
08/09| T-272nd****
09/10| T-263rd*****

*partial rookie season - just 12 GP. (not included in final rankings)
**partial injured season - just 41 GP.
***partial injured season - just 24 GP. (not included in final rankings)
****partial veteran season - just 28 GP. (not included in final rankings)
*****partial veteran season - just 7 GP. (not included in final rankings)

Number of offensive titles amongst defencemen: 0
Average offensive ranking amongst defencemen: 43rd (best five seasons rank: 6th)