Round 2, Vote 12 (HOH Top Wingers)

[Hawkey Town 18]

IMPORTANT NOTE: Post 2 of every voting thread will contain instructions as to who to send your votes to. If you send your votes to the wrong person, we can't guarantee that they will be counted.

MOD: This is a strictly on-topic thread. Posts that don't focus on the wingers listed in Post 2 will be deleted or moved at the discretion of the moderators. This will be strictly enforced in every Round 2 voting thread, regardless of who the OP is - TDMM

Before we begin, just a recap on how Round 2 will operate:

Round 2

• The top 12-16 ranked players from the aggregate list will be posted in a thread
• Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
• Player merits and rankings will be open for discussion and debate for a period of at least five (5) days. Administrators may extend the discussion period if it remains active
• Final voting will occur for two (2) days, via PM. Everyone ranks their top 10 players.
• Top 5 players will be added to the list
• Final results will be posted and the process repeated for the next 5 places with remaining players until a list of 60 wingers is obtained
• If there are major breaks in the Round 2 voting totals, we may add more or less than the targeted 5 players in certain rounds
• The number of players available for discussion at once will increase from 8 as we move down the list, based on natural breaks in the aggregate list put together in Round 1

These might be tweaked to allow longer or shorter debating periods depending on how the process moves along.

Additionally, there are a couple guidelines we'd ask that everyone agree to abide by:

• Please try to stay on-topic in the thread
• Please remember that this is a debate on opinions and there is no right or wrong. Please try to avoid words like "stupid" "dumb" "wrong" "sophistry" etc. when debating.
• Please treat other debaters with respect
• Please don't be a wallflower. All eligible voters are VERY HIGHLY encouraged to be active participants in the debate.
• Please maintain an open mind. The purpose of the debate is to convince others that your views are more valid. If nobody is willing to accept their opinions as flexible there really is no point in debating.

Eliglible Voters (23):
Andros , Art of Sedinery , BillyShoe1721 , Dennis Bonvie , Hawkey Town 18 , intylerwetrust , kmad , MadArcand , reckoning , Rob Scuderi , ted1971 , TheDevilMadeMe , the edler , tony d , Ursaguy , bigbuffalo313 , Canadiens1958 , Darth Yoda , Hardyvan123 , MXD , tarheelhockey , unknown33 , seventieslord , Johnny Engine

All posters are encouraged to participate in the debates and discussions, but only those listed above will be eligible for the final votes.

Click to read more...

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Vote 11 will begin now and debates are scheduled to run through Monday December 22nd. You may PM votes to Hawkey Town 18 starting on Sunday December 21st.

We will be sending out confirmations when we receive ballots from the voters. Any voter who does not get a confirmation within 24 hours of submitting a ballot should assume we never received it and should resubmit it and post in this thread saying they did so.

There are 13 eligible candidates for Vote 11 because of the natural breaks of Round 1 point totals.

***You will now rank your Top 10 when voting.***

Here are the candidates, listed alphabetically:


Helmut Balderis
Cecil Dillon
Theo Fleury
Bob Gainey
Rod Gilbert
Ilya Kovalchuk
Rick Middleton
Markus Naslund
Cam Neely
Reg Noble
Bert Olmstead
Didier Pitre
Paul Thompson

 

[MXD]

Very interesting new group to say the least.

Cecil Dillon is something of an oddity - LHS Right Winger (no, Rocket wasn't the first) who scored quite a bit of goals in spite of never really having the possibility to do so (behind Bill Cook), with some very interesting totals and accolades. I'm a bit curious on his defensive play actually -- his level of proficiency will be crucial in determining whether he's Top-5 material or Top--10 material.

Gainey is the worst offensive player well have to vote for. And the best defensive player as well. We probably all have our opinions on him.

Naslund is... Interesting. To be honest, somebody has to explain me why Kovalchuk became available two (or was it three) rounds ahead of him. Completely flawed as a player but well-rounded offensively. Probably starts just outside looking in.

Paul Thompson ? It will be very interesting to compare him with Sweeny Schriner and Brian Hextall. Schriner is, at face value, the best offensive player, but was mostly a secondary player (and apparently deemed not as potent offensively as Drillon?) once he got a competent team, and cracking the Amerks roster was easier than getting ice time behind Frank Boucher, who was a completely sublime all-around player. Something has to be said for being the key forward on a cup winner. Vs. Hextall ? Well, Hextall has the better prime, but it was in a very slightly weaker era, overall and at RW, whereas Thompson was more or less sandwiched in Schriner, Jackson and Joliat. If anything, Thompson is A LOT like Patrick Elias, who should be available next round. I think it might be a little too early for the three, but we've seen worse results so far.


*realizes Vote 8 is long done*

 

[Captain Bowie]

Naslund! Happy to see him. Thought too many people would be very down in him. Don't know much about Thompson, the 2nd guy to be added I had outside my top 80. Dillon seems to have a good offensive resume, with a few more seasons than Drillon (though not as many elite seasons).

As for Gainey, I have a good idea of how good he was for offence and defence. But where he fits in will have to be more of a gut feeling thing (not unlike the European players) rather than directly comparing to contemporaries.

 

[MXD]

Naslund! Happy to see him. Thought too many people would be very down in him. Don't know much about Thompson, the 2nd guy to be added I had outside my top 80. Dillon seems to have a good offensive resume, with a few more seasons than Dillon (though not as many elite seasons).

That is probably the biggest positive at Drillon getting voted in last round, lol.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Warts and all, I think Kovalchuk has a legit claim at numero uno this round. Gilbert and Pitre look pretty good now, too.

Fleury, Balderis best bets to round out the top 5. Naslund, Dillon, Noble and Neely all could make top 10 this round also. Will have to look more into Middleton and Thompson. Olmstead likely on the outside looking in again.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Only 4 new candidates? Don't like decreasing the candidate pool this late, though I do like that we can talk about Thompson and Dillon.

We're at the point where whoever we vote in our top 10s this round are basically the last 10 players we think should be on the top 60 list (depending on who shows up next round of course).

I think Paul Thompson and Cecil Dillon are legit top 60 candidates. Both have pretty strong scoring finishes (you'll see from the VsX-7 tables, or you can check out their top 10 finishes on hockey-reference yourself). Both seemed to bring more than just their regular season offense (Thompson the best scorer on a defensive minded team IIRC, plus a great playoff player), Dillon at least spent some of his time on a "checking line." And if you care about official All-Star teams, both of them have the records to back them up (Dillon has 1 1st Team, 2 2nd Teams at RW, Thompson has 1 1st Team 1 2nd Team at LW back when LW was a decently strong position). Really, the only downside is that neither guy is in the HHOF, though they are often listed as the best pre-WW2 players not in (center Bernie Morris is also listed).

I hope these two players get some major discussion time in before this project is over.

Markus Naslund is something of a wild card. Is there a player who came up with more extreme positives and negatives?

The pluses - an amazing 3 year regular season prime (with a decent 4th year preceding it) as a scorer. The only player available for awhile with multiple top 5 Hart finishes (2nd, 5th, 5th), though obviously helped in that stat by the fact that the cutoff is after 5th, and also that he played in an era when a good portion of the Hart voters automatically vote for the best scorers (which wasn't always the case).

The minuses - did little of note outside has best 4 years, brought nothing without the puck on his stick. Terrible in the playoffs. His best 3 years correspond perfectly to the major dip in talent from 2001-02 to 2003-04 - the guys who should have been competing with him were either finished early because of injuries (Selanne who everyone thought was done, Kariya, Lindros) or missed half the time with injuries (Forsberg).

My gut tells me that he should be ranked under Kovalchuk, which would have him miss the cut, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

Bob Gainey is a wild card for a different reason. A candidate based entirely on his defense. I didn't have him in my top 80, but did have other defense-first wingers who are not available in my top 80.

The reasoning: Herbie Lewis, George Armstrong, Baldy Northcott, Claude Provost, Woody Dumart, Bob Pulford, to list some names, were all defense-first wingers who were all significantly better scorers than Gainey (Pulford less than the others, but still better offensively than Gainey). All but Provost are in the HHOF, like Gainey. Most of them were major contributors to at least one Cup, with Provost, Armstrong, and Pulford major contributors to dynasties.

(Then as some of you know, Gainey's contemporary Craig Ramsay, who by reputation was the 2nd best defensive winger of the era, also outscored Gainey by quite a bit. Though he doesn't have Gainey's playoff cred).

So my question for a Gainey proponent - Why Gainey and not those other guys? Keeping in mind that all of them were better scorers than he was, some of them by a lot.
________________

Pitre and Gilbert look good for my top 5, though not necessarily top 2. After that, it's pretty open at the moment. I favored Fleury and Balderis among the remaining guys last round, but that's not even close to set in stone.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

10-year VsX for post-expansion players

Generally preferred for post-expansion players.

Theoren Fleury 78.9
Ilya Kovalchuk 78.5
Rod Gilbert 78.2 (possibly underrated due to the early 70s Bruins breaking the system)
Markus Naslund 75.3
Rick Middleton 68.4
Cam Neely 55.6

7 Year weighted Vs-X scores 1927 to 2014

*Finally, with Drillon gone, I can shorten the table*

A formula for determining the quality of a player's point production in his best 7 regular seasons, compared to a typical #2 scorer in the league those years.

Details here and here

War years players - I am now listing the "war year fudge" first with the raw VsX in parenthesis, since I think the war year fudge is a much better estimate of offensive value.

22 | Jarome Iginla | 87
23 | Dickie Moore | 86
24 | Pavel Bure | 86
25 | Frank Mahovlich | 85.5
26 | Paul Kariya | 85.4
27 | Roy Conacher | 85.4(88.8)
28 | Toe Blake | 85.3(92.6)
39 | John Bucyk | 85.3
30 | Bryan Hextall | 84.5
31 | Luc Robitaille | 84.4
32 | Syd Howe | 84.3(87.9)
33 | Ilya Kovalchuk | 84.3
34 | Markus Naslund | 83.6
35 | Paul Thompson | 83.2
36 | Aurel Joliet# | 83.1
37 | Marian Hossa | 82.6
38 | Daniel Alfredsson | 82.6
39 | Theoren Fleury | 82.3
40 | John LeClair | 82.1
41| Dany Heatley | 81.5
42| Ziggy Palffy | 80.6
43| Rod Gilbert | 80.2*
44| Ken Hodge | 79.9
45| Brendan Shanahan | 79.3
46| Michel Goulet | 79.3
47 | Patrik Elias | 79.3
48 | Keith Tkachuk | 79.3
49 | Cecil Dillon | 78.4
50 | Alexander Mogilny | 78.1
51 | Daniel Sedin | 77.3
52| Bun Cook |76.6
53| Bert Olmstead | 76.3
54| Bobby Bauer | 76.2
55| Patrick Kane | 76.0
56| Bobby Rousseau| 76.0
57 | Alex Kovalev | 75.8
58| Herbie Lewis | 75.6
59| Pavol Demitra | 75.2
60 | Johnny Gottselig | 75.0
61| Lanny McDonald | 74.6
62| Vincent Damphousse | 74.2
63| Rick Middleton | 74.0
64| Milan Hejduk | 73.8
65| Yvan Cournoyer | 73.6*
66| Woody Dumart | 73.5
67| Patrick Marleau | 73.3
68| Tony Amonte | 73.3
69| Gaye Stewart | 73.1
70| Ray Whitney | 73.0
-|-|-
-| Cam Neely |63.8

I'm not even bothering looking up Bob Gainey - he's going to be way lower than anyone else. Also, as a guy who basically never played on the PP, we'd need to look at even strength scoring anyway.
___________________

Comments:

• Paul Thompson looks very good by this metric, considering I he didn't have a reputation as a floater like Kovalchuk and Naslund (and yes, other players of his era - Gordie Drillon and basically Schriner - did have that rep, so this isn't unfair nitpicking of the modern guys). Legit top 5 candidate this round? Obviously, he needs to be fleshed out more.
• Again, Cecil Dillon spent some time on the Ranger's checking line, which would hurt his numbers here.
• Kovalchuk looks a little better than Naslund by this metric - not surprising since Naslund's prime rapidly drops off after his best 3-4 years.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Only 4 new candidates? Don't like decreasing the candidate pool this late, though I do like that we can talk about Thompson and Dillon.

Without getting into too much detail, there are some odd breaks/groupings from the Round 1 rankings that needed to be considered. There will be 6 new candidates for the final vote.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I've done some research on Paul Thompson for the ATD in the past. I will post some info on him tomorrow.

 

[MadArcand]

Naslund! Happy to see him.

Naslund! Unhappy to see him.

 

[sr edler]

^ I absolutely knew you would pop by to say that!

I'm not a particular Näslund fan myself though, so it's cool.

 

[ted2019]

I don't see the infatuation with Paul Thompson. Maybe I'm missing something?

Markus Naslund. At first, I didn't think he was a top 60 winger, but after the process of the 1st round voting, I think he should be a shoe-in.

Bob Gainey/Bert Olmstead comparisons should be interesting. I'm a big Gainey fan, so I'm curious to see what others have to say.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't see the infatuation with Paul Thompson. Maybe I'm missing something?

Markus Naslund. At first, I didn't think he was a top 60 winger, but after the process of the 1st round voting, I think he should be a shoe-in.

Compare Thompson and Naslund. Their VsX scores were already posted.

Top 10 finishes (Thompson) and Top 20 finishes (Naslund)

I'm posting Naslund's top 20 finishes, not just top 10, since he's a recent player. FOr Thompson, I'm only posting top 10s.

Thompson Points: 2, 3, 8, 10, 10
Naslund Points: 2, 2, 4 (no additional top 20 finishes)

Thompson Goals: 3, 6, 7, 10
Naslund Goals: 2, 5, 7, 7, 15

Thompson Assists: 4, 7, 10
Naslund Assists: 4, 8, 9 (no additional top 20 finishes)

Naslund was pretty much nonexistent without the puck on his stick. Thompson seems to have been a decent all-round player; not sure how decent (let's see what HT posts), but any amount is better than Naslund.

Most of us remember that Naslund was 2nd in Hart voting in 2002-03 to Peter Forsberg. A bet a lot of people don't know that in 1937-38, Paul Thompson was a close 2nd in Hart voting to Eddie Shore:


1937-38
HART: (223)
1. Eddie Shore, Bos D 68
2. Paul Thompson, Chi LW 61
3. Babe Siebert, Mtl D 38
4. Gord Drillon, Tor RW 28
5. Neil Colville, NYR C/D 28

When Naslund was 2nd in Hart voting, it was a pretty distant second (in fact 3rd place Martin Brodeur received more 1st place votes).

2002-03
HART: Peter Forsberg 508 (38-13-6-2-1); Markus Naslund 342 (5-26-17-7-4); Martin Brodeur 311 (14-12-11-10-2); Joe Thornton 131 (0-6-6-15-14); Todd Bertuzzi 100 (2-2-7-7-10); Al MacInnis 46 (0-2-4-3-3); Mike Modano 43 (1-0-3-5-3); Nicklas Lidstrom 41 (0-0-4-6-3); (etc)

Bob Gainey/Bert Olmstead comparisons should be interesting. I'm a big Gainey fan, so I'm curious to see what others have to say.

I think you'd have to think that Gainey's defensive ability transcends that of just about any other forward to have him over Olmstead. I don't know... maybe it did. There are defensemen like NJ-era Scott Stevens who dominated games without showing up on the scoresheet; I guess Gainey is as close as you can get as a forward. But Olmstead was strong defensively too and put up much better numbers.

 

[MXD]

Quick question on Thompson :

Where his seven VsX "seasons" are his first seven seasons with the Hawks, right?

 

[Captain Bowie]

Compare Thompson and Naslund. Their VsX scores were already posted.

Top 10 finishes (Thompson) and Top 20 finishes (Naslund)

I'm posting Naslund's top 20 finishes, not just top 10, since he's a recent player. FOr Thompson, I'm only posting top 10s.

Thompson Points: 2, 3, 8, 10, 10
Naslund Points: 2, 2, 4 (no additional top 20 finishes)

Thompson Goals: 3, 6, 7, 10
Naslund Goals: 2, 5, 7, 7, 15

Thompson Assists: 4, 7, 10
Naslund Assists: 4, 8, 9 (no additional top 20 finishes)

Naslund was pretty much nonexistent without the puck on his stick. Thompson seems to have been a decent all-round player; not sure how decent (let's see what HT posts), but any amount is better than Naslund.

Most of us remember that Naslund was 2nd in Hart voting in 2002-03 to Peter Forsberg. A bet a lot of people don't know that in 1937-38, Paul Thompson was a close 2nd in Hart voting to Eddie Shore:


1937-38
HART: (223)
1. Eddie Shore, Bos D 68
2. Paul Thompson, Chi LW 61
3. Babe Siebert, Mtl D 38
4. Gord Drillon, Tor RW 28
5. Neil Colville, NYR C/D 28

When Naslund was 2nd in Hart voting, it was a pretty distant second (in fact 3rd place Martin Brodeur received more 1st place votes).

2002-03
HART: Peter Forsberg 508 (38-13-6-2-1); Markus Naslund 342 (5-26-17-7-4); Martin Brodeur 311 (14-12-11-10-2); Joe Thornton 131 (0-6-6-15-14); Todd Bertuzzi 100 (2-2-7-7-10); Al MacInnis 46 (0-2-4-3-3); Mike Modano 43 (1-0-3-5-3); Nicklas Lidstrom 41 (0-0-4-6-3); (etc)



I think you'd have to think that Gainey's defensive ability transcends that of just about any other forward to have him over Olmstead. I don't know... maybe it did. There are defensemen like NJ-era Scott Stevens who dominated games without showing up on the scoresheet; I guess Gainey is as close as you can get as a forward. But Olmstead was strong defensively too and put up much better numbers.

It's true that Naslund's argument isn't based on a legnthy prime. It will be based on an incredible 4-year peak that included:

00/01-03/04:

3 straight 1st team All-Star selections (02-04)
1 3rd team All-Star vote (2001)
1 Ted Lindsay award
Hart finishes of 11th (2001), 5th (2002), 2nd (2003), 5th (2004)
3 Straight top 5 in Points (in 00/01, missed 10 games, was 5 points behind 20th, scored 41 goals in 72 games)
4 Straight top 10 goal finishes (2nd, 5th, 7th, 7th)
3 Straight 40 Goal seasons (40, 41, 48)
3 Straight top 10 Assists (4th, 8th, 9th)
From 00/01-03/04 was 1st in Points, 1st in Goals, 6th in Assists, 4th in PPG (Lemieux, Jagr, Forsberg), 2nd in GPG (Bure) and 10th in APG.

He was still a good player in 98/99, 99/00, and 05/06, but nothing special. He was somewhat of a late-bloomer, not becoming a top line player until 25, and he retired at age 35. He finished his career with 3 straight 24-25-24 goal seasons, so he could still play. But it was clear he wasn't interested in being veteran depth like many do at the end of their careers. He played one more season for Modo at 36 before calling it quits.

I'd venture to say he has the best offensive peak in this round. He just doesn't have anything noteworthy outside of it to add to his argument, otherwise he'd be a shoe-in for top-3 this round (or already added to the list).

 

[unknown33]

Naslund coming up now is actually in line with my round 1 list, but what gives me some trouble is most Swedish posters huge dislike for him ('their' own guy) like I've rarely seen it before.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Naslund coming up now is actually in line with my round 1 list, but what gives me some trouble is most Swedish posters huge dislike for him ('their' own guy) like I've rarely seen it before.

From what I remember, he was usuaully far behind Forsberg, Sundin, ect. for go-to guys on the national team. Maybe that was it?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Hakan Loob

Naslund coming up now is actually in line with my round 1 list, but what gives me some trouble is most Swedish posters huge dislike for him ('their' own guy) like I've rarely seen it before.

Most view Hakan Loob as better.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Paul Thompson

Here's some info on Paul Thompson.

Legends of Hockey

Paul Thompson was a skillful left-winger during his 13 years in the NHL beginning in 1926-27. He was a well-rounded player who could check as well as contribute on offense in a career that yielded three Stanley Cups. The slick forward was also the younger brother of star netminder Tiny Thompson.

He was a solid role player for five years and helped the club win its first Stanley Cup in 1928. In October 1931, he was traded to the Chicago Black Hawks for Art Somers and Vic Desjardins.

Thompson hit the 20-goal mark twice during his eight years with the Hawks. In 1933-34, he formed an effective line with Doc Romnes and Mush March when Chicago won its first Stanley Cup. Four years later, he scored a personal-best 22 goals and notched four post-season markers to help the club win its second Cup of the decade. He retired during the 1938-39 season to coach the Hawks for the last 27 games of the schedule.

Joe Pelletier

Paul Thompson was one of the top players in the National Hockey League during the tough days of the 1930s. He led the Chicago Blackhawks in scoring six times in his eight seasons in the Windy City.

Often toiling on the second line notably with Murray Murdoch and Butch Keeling and sometimes with Alex Gray and Reg Mackey, Thompson's line always played second fiddle to the Frank Boucher-Bill Cook-Bun Cook trio that dominated the entire league in those days.

It wasn't until Thompson joined the Chicago Blackhawks that his offensive numbers took off. Traded for Art Somers and Vic Desjardins, Thompson slotted in nicely on the Hawks top line with Doc Romnes and Mush March. Thompson would twice top the 20 goal mark. In both of those seasons, 1934 and 1938, he led the Hawks to Stanley Cup championships.

A two time all star, Thompson totaled 153 goals and 179 assists for 332 points in his 582 game career. He would turn to coaching the Hawks in retirement, lasting 6 seasons.

"Paul Thompson was an excellent player," recalled former teammate Cully Dahlstrom. "He was great around the net and shooting the puck.

Ottawa Citizen – Jan. 8, 1936

The Hawks made several determined bids thereafter but their only dangerous stickman was Paul Thompson, speedy brother of the Boston goalie, who came here leading the league’s scorers.

Blackhawks Top 100 - Keith Schultz

Thompson wasn’t much of a scorer in the Big Apple but when he placed on the line with Mush March and Doc Romnes his offensive numbers began to increase in Chicago.

Thompson scored 20 goals twice in Chicago and he scored 15 or more goals in 7 out of his 8 season with the Blackhawks. Thompson was a 2-time all-star but his biggest contribution during his playing days was being on both the 34 and 38 Stanley Cup winners in Chicago. Thompson was an all around good player that didn’t shy away from any aspect of the game. He played physical, played in front of the net, and still had an excellent shot.

Seems that Thompson was stuck behind the Bread line in New York for the first part of his career, but then really flourished when he was traded to the Blackhawks and was given an opportunity to play on the top line.

All-Star Award Finishes: 1, 2, 3

Top 5 Hart Voting: 2nd (lost to Eddie Shore 68 to 61)

Thompson was a meaningful contributor to the Blackhawks first two Stanley Cup Championships:

1934 Stanley Cup Playoffs
T-3rd overall in Points (T-2nd on Team)
T-2nd overall in Goals (T-2nd on Team)
T-3rd overall in Assists ((T-2nd on Team)

1938 Stanley Cup Playoffs
T-2nd overall in Points (T-2nd on Team)
T-3rd overall in Goals (3rd on Team)
T-8th overall in Assists (T-4th on Team)

Thompson's time on the Blackhawks (1931-32 to 1938-39)
Top 5 Scorers Regular Season
1. Paul Thompson: 365 GP - 118 G - 146 A - 264 Pts (0.72 ppg)
2. Johnny Gottselig: 364 GP - 111 G - 136 A - 247 Pts (0.68 ppg)
3. Mush March: 364 GP - 86 G - 104 A - 190 Pts (0.52 ppg)
4. Doc Romnes: 279 GP - 56 G - 112 A - 168 Pts (0.60 ppg)
5. Tom Cook: 243 GP - 46 G - 64 A - 110 Pts (0.45 ppg)

*6th in NHL scoring over this time period behind Marty Barry (308), Busher Jackson (302), Nels Stewart (282), Charlie Conacher (275), and Cecil Dillon (271)

Top 5 Scorers Playoffs
1. Doc Romnes: 24 GP - 5 G - 13 A - 18 Pts
2. Johnny Gottselig: 24 GP - 9 G - 8 A - 17 Pts
2. Paul Thompson: 24 GP - 8 G - 9 A - 17 Pts
4. Mush March: 23 GP - 6 G - 9 A - 15 Pts
5. Earl Seibert: 12 GP - 7 G - 2 A - 9 Pts


*DEFENSIVE TEAM: During the above time period with Chicago, of the 8 teams that played all 384 games, Chicago had the 2nd fewest Goals Against (Boston), and was last in Goals For. They won 2 Stanley Cups, lost in the Quarter-Finals 3 times, and missed the playoffs 3 times. In the Regular Season Chicago finished: 3, 3, 4, 4, 6, 7, 7, 7

 

[Canadiens1958]

Centers

From what I remember, he was usuaully far behind Forsberg, Sundin, ect. for go-to guys on the national team. Maybe that was it?

Were centers.

 

[MXD]

On Thompson :

I think it is important to note at this point that "being stuck behind the A-Line" isn't completely accurate.

The more "accurate" description would be that he was behind Frank Boucher on the Rangers Centers depth chart. He wasn't playing LW on his line then : Murray Murdoch was.

Which brings me back to something I said earlier : we're way past the stage where being second to Boucher (or players of similar quality) is a problem.

 

[MXD]

From what I remember, he was usuaully far behind Forsberg, Sundin, ect. for go-to guys on the national team. Maybe that was it?

More weight given to international play.

And then again, being considered second to a guy like Fotsberg isn't exactly a bad thing here.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

On Thompson :

I think it is important to note at this point that "being stuck behind the A-Line" isn't completely accurate.

The more "accurate" description would be that he was behind Frank Boucher on the Rangers Centers depth chart. He wasn't playing LW on his line then : Murray Murdoch was.

Which brings me back to something I said earlier : we're way past the stage where being second to Boucher (or players of similar quality) is a problem.

Agree with this, which is why my analysis focused on his Chicago days.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Please visit the Rules Thread to discuss the voting period over the upcoming holidays.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1688469&highlight=top+wingers