Speculation: Roster Management time table..

[613Leafer]

Gardiner has regressed this season but long-term is still in their plans I think

I think he's a good player, despite his inconsistencies. But generally, he's more of a solid offensive guy, and not a guy you trust with the tough matchups, defensive zone starts late in games, etc.

Rielly + Zaitsev are both signed long-term and are also offensive guys, and then we have Liljegren coming up who has a good shot at being a 30+ point NHL defender. So I think Gardiner, despite being good, is a bit redundant. Dermott is more of a well-rounded guy that can take tough matchups (assuming he succeeds at the NHL level), and I think would make more sense as the other top 4 LHD after Rielly.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We have talent to compete. But it takes more than that to be a long term successful franchise. It takes more than that to put it all together. You don't just draft Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Cup. The end. Hey we have 2 60+ point players. What do you have Tampa? St. Louis? Washington? Got any of those New York? What about you Pittsburgh? Nashville just wasted their time trading for Turris cause we're doing it now.
Out of the past 10 years, only 6 of 30 teams have won the Cup. It's too bad nobody else has the talent to compete.
Let's see this team give us a sample size before we start trading 1st round picks and losing all our UFAs for nothing.
We are currently on 1 playoff appearance in a row with 6 playoff games as our resume. Let's go for 2 in a row first and see where we are.
I still think we should look to be moving those not in the long term plans. There are missing components on this team and organizational depth missing at key positions plus higher quality positions. In order to make higher grade trades, we need higher grade tradeable prospects. Once we promote Marlies for departing UFAs, we need higher talent developing behind them.

Higher talent development coming behind current players that were gotten with strong drafting position in most cases. Making playoffs lowers your draft quality on percentage basis alone but you can get lucky still.

Asset management while winning.
Trades occurring for cap management are ever important.

Keeping quality prospects through trade is equally important to drafting while maintaining a quality perennially competing playoff team.

Recognition of the core tells me we still don't have a elite core defenseman. A contender with average scoring most likely needs one but a elite scoring team might not need one to the same degree pr even at all.

Morgan rielly is a core piece! The rest are not going to be viewed as core dmen by a majority of fans.

Way to many contender rated teams have much stronger defenses than us. It is a serious weakness made very hard to focus on because of extremely talented offensive players and elite goaltending.

Very much not a team finished rebuilding here.

As nice as it was making the playoffs last season and scaring the hell out of the caps, it has really blurred the process to many.

What made me realize this was my own frustration at Babs lineup decisions.

Great coach. He looks really bad right now while the team is teying to figure something out about what they have though.

Lou has his goalie!

He has always liked a true #1 horse defenseman. I think he will get one and wants one.

 

[Brownbeard]

The problem with Gardiner though, is his hockey IQ. He continually makes dumb plays and gives the puck away. Just look at the lack of effort last night on that shorthanded goal as the latest example.

He's talented and he's fast, but he's not a smart player. And though the Leafs are better when he uses his skills, they're often worse because he makes dumb plays that lead to goals, like gifting Edmonton two in the game in Alberta, because of stupid and lazy plays. So he's a catch-22, and I don't know if you can win a championship with a player like that being one of your main defencemen.

 

[justafan22]

Polak and komarov have been playing at benchable levels.

 

[rent free]

rebuild the rebuild

 

[mulefarm]

Brownbeard, not sure how you come up with lack of effort on the 2 on 1. Took the pass away and Daley shelves it!

 

[Slyfox]

Gardiner stopped the pass which is what he should do. He's not to blame

 

[Menzinger]

good for them if they are going to be better defensively (which I don't see), they still don't address the issue at hand, who is going to replace JVR's production and no one can provide a concrete answer, they go to the default, they'll play better defense...

Considering JVR is one of the worst defensive forwards on the team, I don’t think it’s that much harder to be better defensively.

It’s about net output. His replacement won’t score as much, but if he can help cut down on goals against the loss of JVR can be mitigated next year.

I suspect management won’t trade him and will keep him as an “internal rental” this season but they don’t necessarily need to resign him for next year.

 

[francis246]

Considering JVR is one of the worst defensive forwards on the team, I don’t think it’s that much harder to be better defensively.

It’s about net output. His replacement won’t score as much, but if he can help cut down on goals against the loss of JVR can be mitigated next year.

I suspect management won’t trade him and will keep him as an “internal rental” this season but they don’t necessarily need to resign him for next year.

i don't see any one player in the marlies coming in and 1. scoring as much as JVR, 2. having that much of a defensive impact they "cut down" on goals against (it's really cute that people think that any of our prospects have the ability to make that kind of change).

The reality is, there is no JVR replacement. If he is willing to take a cap friendly deal they will more than likely bring him back.

 

[Dzonna]

Gardiner stopped the pass which is what he should do. He's not to blame

Never played hockey at a high level, but I feel that gardiner gave him too much net to look at

 

[Mr Hockey]

Never played hockey at a high level, but I feel that gardiner gave him too much net to look at

Gardiner made zero attempt to even distract/disrupt/etc the shooter and gave him a clear lane right to the goal crease. Also, a lot of goalies "prefer" the d'man try and take the shot away from the shooter on a 2~1, I played a bit.

 

[mulefarm]

Daley hadn't scored a goal all season, I don't think any D would have attempted to take his shot away so the other Wing would have tap in. I would say most goalies would rather take the shooter , than try and move across the net for the pass.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

rebuild the rebuild

Propose reproposing the previous proposal!

 

[Liminality]

We're still clearly in transition considering our roster.

What does our roster look like if we don't do anything with Bozak, Polak, leo and jvr and let them walk?

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
Leivo-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Gauthier-Soshnikov

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Borgman-Carrick

Wondering if that would work in Babcock's line matching system. Or if there's too many powerplay guys and not enough pk guys. I'm still worried about our defensive side, especially in our bottom 4 positions for d.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Nylander will take over Bozak's spot at centre
Gauthier will take Moore's spot
Carrick/Dermott will take over for Polak
And Kapanen will either take Komarov's spot on the team, or Komarov will end up on the 4th line

Potential Line-Up With the Pieces we Currently Have:

JVR	Matthews	Marner
Marleau	Nylander	Kapanen
Hyman	Kadri	Brown
Martin	Gauthier	Soshnikov

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Rielly	Hainsey
Borgman	Zaitsev
Gardiner	Carrick

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Duke16]

Nylander will take over Bozak's spot at centre
Gauthier will take Moore's spot
Carrick/Dermott will take over for Polak
And Kapanen will either take Komarov's spot on the team, or Komarov will end up on the 4th line

Potential Line-Up With the Pieces we Currently Have:

JVR	Matthews	Marner
Marleau	Nylander	Kapanen
Hyman	Kadri	Brown
Martin	Gauthier	Soshnikov

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Rielly	Hainsey
Borgman	Zaitsev
Gardiner	Carrick

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It might just be the down years of Nylander and Marner talking, but this doesn't look good enough to me. For one, that Bottom 6 simply won't score with the exception of Kadri and the odd one from Brown, Kapanen is a rookie and may not have amazing production next year, Marleau is already gonna be hard pressed for 50 this year, never mind next year. The only way this works is if the Big 3 are each PPG. The D core is too similar to the way it is now (not good enough)

 

[Duke16]

Delete

 

[Mr Hockey]

Some good info here to help inform... the last 10 games

 

[Polaris1010]

rebuild the rebuild

In the long run, we're all dead.

The chance to win is today, and today for the next 10 years, with Matthews in his prime, and a solid top 4 defense, a goaltender, all still in their prime.

What went wrong with the rebuild, or so-called rebuild, is that Nylander and Marner kind of sucks this season. Like they play for Edmonton or something.

Edmonton is second last in their division.

The Maple Leafs are trying to win today.

 

[Polaris1010]

Some good info here to help inform... the last 10 games

Got no idea what those figures mean, but my impression is that the Leafs are a bad road team.

Against decent teams, the Leafs either get Andersen to pull their nuts outta the fire and escape with 2 points, or the line matching will go against the Leafs and the Leafs will see the game go slowly against them too.

Like they don't have a chance if the match up is not favourable.

The Leafs power play is overrated, because no one scores except Matthews, JVR and Kadri, and they cannot do that every game.

No major overhauls to the roster is necessary, or desirable IMHO. Just some adjustments to the lower half of the roster.

 

[Polaris1010]

Matthews has moved things along on the rebuild. There is some players holding down roster spots currently that o feel are holding down some players that are developed enough for a more permanent roster position.

Polak
Moore
Komo
Bozak

Komarov is a tough one to decide, for anybody.

Kadri emergence as a top player, a center who scores 30 goals, cannot be underestimated.

It only happened when Komarov was put in as his line mate.

The got similar games now, that they still fast, and they try not to be too fancy. Marleau really is the perfect winger for them. Their chemistry is get it out, get it in, and try to score.

That is why I would rather keep Komarov around, because Kadri is such a big part of this team.

 

[Polaris1010]

Note, that Nylander and Marner kind of sucks this season, many on this forum blame the coach for that.

I think the coach is sick and tired of the losing that went on before, and won't tolerate it anymore.

Good for him.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Got no idea what those figures mean, but my impression is that the Leafs are a bad road team.

Against decent teams, the Leafs either get Andersen to pull their nuts outta the fire and escape with 2 points, or the line matching will go against the Leafs and the Leafs will see the game go slowly against them too.

Like they don't have a chance if the match up is not favourable.

The Leafs power play is overrated, because no one scores except Matthews, JVR and Kadri, and they cannot do that every game.

No major overhauls to the roster is necessary, or desirable IMHO. Just some adjustments to the lower half of the roster.

Leafs are going through a rough patch right now, happened last year too. There is a massive amount of the sky is falling from the young inexperienced fans. The Leafs go into each game at least equals! all is good in Leaf land

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

It might just be the down years of Nylander and Marner talking, but this doesn't look good enough to me. For one, that Bottom 6 simply won't score with the exception of Kadri and the odd one from Brown, Kapanen is a rookie and may not have amazing production next year, Marleau is already gonna be hard pressed for 50 this year, never mind next year. The only way this works is if the Big 3 are each PPG. The D core is too similar to the way it is now (not good enough)

i put that together with just the pieces we currently possess, this would be a worst case scenario imo

 

[SprDaVE]

Note, that Nylander and Marner kind of sucks this season, many on this forum blame the coach for that.

I think the coach is sick and tired of the losing that went on before, and won't tolerate it anymore.

Good for him.

What about some of veterans completely sucking and not even getting a sniff of demotion/sitting?

I guess he tolerates it just enough?