Neuf
Leaving HFBoards for now
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Roster in 2017/18 - Part II
- Thread starter YWGinYYZ
- Start date
Zhamnov5GoalGame
Former Director of GDT Operations
7.6 million for a 3rd line RW?
Buff as a forward only works when we have possession in their end.
Watching him forecheck or play in the D zone from that position is not pretty.
We just need some hypnosis or some sort of A-Team Mr T milk stuff.
When he wakes up it's after he's played a reasonably responsible D game and we've won
Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
- Sep 5, 2013
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The athletic strikes again
The huge disparity between Jets' top six and bottom six forwards is holding the team back
This illustrates the size of the gap between Winnipeg’s Top 6 and its Depth Forwards – it’s a big one. But what do the teams who lead this chart have in common?
Looking at the top 10 teams, the answers are mixed.
For our purposes, then, the point isn’t that Winnipeg needs to close the gap between its Top 6 and depth – it’s that it needs both of them to be better.
If the Top 6 is average and the Depth is bad, why do “both” need to improve?
When you start zooming into why Winnipeg’s Top 6 looks so good and its bottom six look so bad, things get interesting.
Whole article here
The huge disparity between Jets' top six and bottom six forwards is holding the team back
This illustrates the size of the gap between Winnipeg’s Top 6 and its Depth Forwards – it’s a big one. But what do the teams who lead this chart have in common?
Looking at the top 10 teams, the answers are mixed.
- Massive overreliance on one or two players. This applies to Edmonton (McDavid/Draisaitl), the Islanders (Tavares), Detroit (primarily Zetterberg, but also Tatar/Nyquist), and Colorado (MacKinnon/Landeskog).
- Being a legitimately very good team. This applies to Boston (Top 6 ranked 1/30, Depth ranked 3rd), Nashville (Top 6 ranked 3/30, Depth ranked 12th),
- Having similar problems to Winnipeg – a decent Top 6 and a weak bottom end. In this case, Florida (Top 6 ranked 5/30, Depth ranked 18th) and Calgary (6/30 and 17th) keep Winnipeg company.
- Finally, one of these teams makes it into the top 10 through a surprising devotion to playing grit throughout the bottom six (Anaheim, I’m looking at you.)
For our purposes, then, the point isn’t that Winnipeg needs to close the gap between its Top 6 and depth – it’s that it needs both of them to be better.
If the Top 6 is average and the Depth is bad, why do “both” need to improve?
When you start zooming into why Winnipeg’s Top 6 looks so good and its bottom six look so bad, things get interesting.
Whole article here
This is not to bad- the key is Connor here, should be in the Top 6- never sent back down. Second guy is Armia - the guy is talented, and should be give a lot of ice time, and lineups like this, should be experimented with. I've liked Petan, but hear that he's nop playing with any desire ??? Maybe on the coach ???
I just think we would be harder to play against if we spread the talent around. I would also like to see what Lowry could do with Little as his center.
Give Petan 5 or so games with Laine and Ehlers to see what they can do.
This lineup totally depends if Petan can pull it off.
I might look at pairing Poolman with Buff instead of Enstrom and give Enstrom and Myers about 12 minutes a game.
I think Morrissey should be on the 2nd PP unit too.
Give Petan 5 or so games with Laine and Ehlers to see what they can do.
This lineup totally depends if Petan can pull it off.
I might look at pairing Poolman with Buff instead of Enstrom and give Enstrom and Myers about 12 minutes a game.
I think Morrissey should be on the 2nd PP unit too.
With this Jet's team , your likely quite right. I don't buy into the Top 6 and Bottom 6 philosophy that Maurice likes to preach. I like a Top 9 and bottom 3 checking line. You have to experiment like you say to find the chemistry that will work.
There's to much scoring talent on the Jet's team to squeeze into 2 lines.
- Jun 10, 2014
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This HockeyWriters piece could be a collaboration from about 3-4 posters here. 
https://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-bottom-six-disaster/
https://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-bottom-six-disaster/
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
Much of the problem to me lies with forward usage. As of tonight each NHL team has played a minimum 4 games. Looking specifically at the 356 forwards who have played in 4 or more games the forward usage breaks down as followed for average minutes played:The athletic strikes again
The huge disparity between Jets' top six and bottom six forwards is holding the team back
This illustrates the size of the gap between Winnipeg’s Top 6 and its Depth Forwards – it’s a big one. But what do the teams who lead this chart have in common?
Looking at the top 10 teams, the answers are mixed.
Clearly, winning requires the best results total – the teams with the smallest differences between top 6 and Depth are also mixed between great depth (Washington is a great example) and teams that were simply awful from top to bottom (Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver.)
- Massive overreliance on one or two players. This applies to Edmonton (McDavid/Draisaitl), the Islanders (Tavares), Detroit (primarily Zetterberg, but also Tatar/Nyquist), and Colorado (MacKinnon/Landeskog).
- Being a legitimately very good team. This applies to Boston (Top 6 ranked 1/30, Depth ranked 3rd), Nashville (Top 6 ranked 3/30, Depth ranked 12th),
- Having similar problems to Winnipeg – a decent Top 6 and a weak bottom end. In this case, Florida (Top 6 ranked 5/30, Depth ranked 18th) and Calgary (6/30 and 17th) keep Winnipeg company.
- Finally, one of these teams makes it into the top 10 through a surprising devotion to playing grit throughout the bottom six (Anaheim, I’m looking at you.)
For our purposes, then, the point isn’t that Winnipeg needs to close the gap between its Top 6 and depth – it’s that it needs both of them to be better.
If the Top 6 is average and the Depth is bad, why do “both” need to improve?
When you start zooming into why Winnipeg’s Top 6 looks so good and its bottom six look so bad, things get interesting.
Whole article here
014) 20:28 TOI/GP-25.67 shifts/GP Mark Scheifele
036) 19:41 TOI/GP-25.50 shifts/GP Blake Wheeler
101) 17:27 TOI/GP-22.50 shifts/GP Nikolaj Ehlers
103) 17:22 TOI/GP-23.67 shifts/GP Bryan Little
113) 17:08 TOI/GP-21.33 shifts/GP Patrik Laine
138) 16:26 TOI/GP-24.75 shifts/GP Adam Lowry
167) 15:25 TOI/GP-20:00 shifts/GP Mathieu Perreault
207) 14:24 TOI/GP-22.67 shifts/GP Shawn Matthias
313) 11:24 TOI/GP-18.50 shifts/GP Brandon Tanev
318) 10:57 TOI/GP-17.33 shifts/GP Andrew Copp
329) 10:28 TOI/GP-15.25 shifts/GP Joel Armia
344) 08:47 TOI/GP-11.8 shifts/GP Nic Petan
353) 06:57 TOI/GP-11.0 shifts/GP Marko Dano
Once again Jets usage of the 4th line is literally the leagues lowest. Only one player should appear ranked 326th-356th. Instead three forwards appear with another two almost making this cut.
As memory serves, the Jets late season success year after year is a result of balanced player usage.
Until Maurice begins employing this tactic at the beginning of the season, the Jets will continue to have poor starts to the season.
Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
- Sep 5, 2013
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Is this 5 on 5? Because ST distort things.
One thing you won't see is Scheifele playing less so Copp can get more ice time. Or Laine playing less so Dano can double his minutes.
That seems like a pretty typical NHL distribution of ice time. 1 player in the top 30, 2 players in the top 60, still only 2 players in the top 90, 5 players in the top 120, 6 players in the top 150, 7 players in the top 180. The Jets are skewed up by one player (Lowry) who as a 3rd line player gets top 6 minutes due to getting both PP and PK time. Pretty average stuff overall.
StatisticsAddict99
Registered User
- Feb 24, 2017
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Let's make this sweeet an simple...
Laine Scheifele Ehlers - Sweet and scoring, would not be suprised if we averaged more goals per game of this one line than our whole team thus far, Laine on the Left where he shoots with pin point accuracy.
Connor Petan Wheeler - Connor + Petan with a Score Driving Winger, that could be dynamite Offensively.
Perrault(Tanev for now) Little Armia - Armia gets a shot at success while this would give us a shot at success while fixing that bad 3rd Line down issue with one of the best 3rd Lines in the league.
Mathias Lowry(Copp for now) Tanev(Dano for now) - Nothing to special just a casual 4th Line...
Laine Scheifele Ehlers - Sweet and scoring, would not be suprised if we averaged more goals per game of this one line than our whole team thus far, Laine on the Left where he shoots with pin point accuracy.
Connor Petan Wheeler - Connor + Petan with a Score Driving Winger, that could be dynamite Offensively.
Perrault(Tanev for now) Little Armia - Armia gets a shot at success while this would give us a shot at success while fixing that bad 3rd Line down issue with one of the best 3rd Lines in the league.
Mathias Lowry(Copp for now) Tanev(Dano for now) - Nothing to special just a casual 4th Line...
Petan's numbers sure look a lot worse when you change the filter from all situation to 5-5 play. PP time is great for pushing up possession numbers if it gets included.This HockeyWriters piece could be a collaboration from about 3-4 posters here.
https://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-bottom-six-disaster/
One of the reasons they have not much time is because you have named 7 players for the bottom 6 spots.
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
I listed total average ice time in all situations, but yes I see your point that usage will be relative to special teams.
The following isn't 5x5, rather it's even strength minutes
008) 16:18 TOI/GP Mark Scheifele
017) 15:40 TOI/GP Blake Wheeler
030) 15:02 TOI/GP Nikolaj Ehlers
074) 14:00 TOI/GP Patrik Laine
094) 13:35 TOI/GP Bryan Little
177) 12:05 TOI/GP Shawn Matthias
189) 11:49 TOI/GP Mathieu Perreault
268) 10:29 TOI/GP Adam Lowry
302) 09:27 TOI/GP Brandon Tanev
319) 09:02 TOI/GPJoel Armia
326) 08:48 TOI/GP Andrew Copp
343) 07:44 TOI/GP Nic Petan
351) 06:51 TOI/GP Marko Dano
Same results essentially. ESW all among the top 30. Little & Laine big minutes as well.
Yes these five are the bread & butter of the team, but usage is absurdly high in reference to every other NHL team.
Conversely all the bottom 6 other than Matthias are playing minutes far below the league average. Only five players play less average ice time than Dano of which include Ryan Reaves & Jarel Boll. Dano deserves better.
I've been a defender of Maurice for several years now, believing that he overplays his top 6 as a tool for their development. As long as it came at the expense of Slater, Glass, Wellwood, Thorburn, ect I was fine with this.
This 2017-2018 roster is deep. I'd have hoped things would have changed this year.
#risetogether apparently doesn't apply to the bottom 6. #sittogether
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
It's average ice time...not total icetime. Listing 13 forwards has no effect.
Regardless of whether the 12th forward is Dano or Petan, in either situation each are playing some of the lowest average icetime in the NHL & their line mates aren't far behind.
Dayofthedogs
Bettman's hammer
How much lower just out of curiosity?
Tonight, King Babcock the coach whom I've seen plenty of posters yearn for played Matt Martin *cough 7 minutes (EV) in a 6-3 win..... and Eric Fehr 7:30 (EV)
Detroit had a couple guys in the 7-8 minute mark as well at evens.
Toronto was winning 4-1 for a while and 5-3....
Both Chicago and St. Louis have a a pair of forwards around the 8-9 minute mark (all situations) in a special teams filled affair there.
Not to mention when our 4th line actually performed they got rewarded with more ice time. The 3rd and 4th lines were pretty much even at even strength in the CBJ game.
It seems odd to think that the difference of a couple minutes a game extra for our best player at the start of a very friendly season schedule is going to create a mountain of woes for us.
I've been wrong before though.
Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
- Sep 5, 2013
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Don't we want to play our best players more?
There are also other things that factor against a straight roll 4 line mentality. There are three 90 second TV time outs each period. That's like 2 full shifts on the fly. Depending how those fall the 4th line or even both the 3rd and 4th line will often get skipped there. Video reviews give the same kind of opportunity for a coach to skip players in the rotation.
You can also see some line matching things happen at the start of a period. Like a rotation of 1st 2nd 1st 3rd 4th 2nd 1st as an example
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
Currently sorted by forwards playing a minimum 4 games & by even strength time per game.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ter=gamesPlayed,gte,4&sort=evTimeOnIcePerGame
With the team being so well rested & with the sample size being so small, it could be much ado about nothing. That said this has been a recurring theme year after year.
Wasn't Maurice's biggest complaint the Jets weren't skating last game? Perhaps some fresh legs would have helped against the youngest team in the league.
CBJ played their top 6 between 15:31-16:36.
Jets played their top 6 between 16:15-18:25
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"I can make you cry in this room"
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The team played at home on Saturday. They had a complete day off away from the rink Sunday. They had a practice Monday 1hr15 and an optional skate on Tuesday 45min that many players skipped.
Hard to blame fatigue. Perhaps the opposite happened?
winnipegger
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2013
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I would mix things up a lot. Toronto plays Hymen on the top line we should try something similar:
Ehlers Scheifele Armia
Connor Little Laine
Perreault(Matthias) Petan Wheeler
Tanev Lowry(Copp) Dano
Ehlers Scheifele Armia
Connor Little Laine
Perreault(Matthias) Petan Wheeler
Tanev Lowry(Copp) Dano
I would also start experimenting and see for example what Armia looks like with another Finn. Maybe he "opens up" a bit. Maybe it has no effect at all. Maybe try Laine as LW.
Laine - Scheifele - Armia
Connor/Ehlers - Little - Wheeler
Ehlers/Connor - X - X
X - X - X
Laine - Scheifele - Armia
Connor/Ehlers - Little - Wheeler
Ehlers/Connor - X - X
X - X - X
There's so many things to criticize Maurice on so you lose track sometimes. But this is absolutely correct. Many teams use a top 9 system with a much more even ice time split and they even split up the best players into these three lines instead of lumping all 6 of them on the top 2 lines.
Maurice likes to have a totally "plug, leadership, grinder, play the right way" attitude towards the 4th line which means it can only handle around 6 minutes a night. This in turn overloads the top 6, which also makes skating more difficult for them. Shift duration could also be taken a look at.
It's just incredible how absolutely sluggish Jets look on the ice in nearly every game thus far. They can skate so that shouldn't be the issue there.
Except last game we had Dano-Petan-Armia as our 4th line which hardly fits your definition. Most teams have a pretty uneven split. IMO at least you need to have enough talent throughout the lineup to even out the ice time and most teams don't. And I just don't see it with the Jets. Most people still seem pretty high on our bottom 6 and lay it on usage, but at some point don't they at least have to have a sniff of production without being carried by better players?
Neuf
Leaving HFBoards for now
- Dec 17, 2016
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The athletic strikes again
The huge disparity between Jets' top six and bottom six forwards is holding the team back
Not sure what the takeaway is. I looked for Pittsburgh and they are tight next to MTL. So balanced but offensively gifted teams ranked the same as offensively starved teams. There needs to be consideration for actual quantities, I think.
I don't want to move to the left because those teams are definitely one line teams. I don't want to move to the right more than maybe 5 spots.
Vegas is in the right spot, here.
