Line Combos: Roster Discussions

Psych0dad

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Sep 27, 2017
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Although Scheifele is creative with the puck, I'd prefer to see him generate his offence in the manner Ladd/Little/Wheeler did.

As the team currently stands, and with all the players where they are developmentally, I think there are better fits for Scheifele than Laine.

I will give you that using the same argument, until another centre is acquired or developed, the best fit for Laine is Scheifele .

Basically Laine's need for Scheifele outweighs Scheifele's need for Laine. In my mind the team is stronger as a whole with Scheifele & Laine apart.

Really looking forward to that point in the game occurring tonight where Mo flips Copp & Petan. When it occurs I hope Nic is ready. A solid performance tonight with the two Euros could do wonders to improve his future on the team.

I'm curious why you would prefer Scheifele to create offense that way?

I'd cry if they killed his creativity like that.

I can mostly agree with the rest of your post. Although completely disagree that team is better with them apart. Nothing supports that theory. Everything points to that being the most important duo to have together production wise.
 

Hulide

Registered User
Jul 12, 2017
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Wasn't Ehlers - Scheif - Wheeler the most productive line when together?
Ehlers have played 3 games with Scheifele this season and Laine 1 game with Him!! Wheeler every game with Scheifele.. Will Wheeler ever play with Little again? Dont Think so.. ehlers needs chef or Wheeler on his line and Laine needs Perreault or Chef on his line.. it Should not be this difficult!! Ehlers have 0 confidence anymore and Play Like crap... you have 1 of the most dynamic players in this League and the Best score in Laine and you Play them 13-14 min. sad... ohhh well just get Some wins and get to the playoff please!!
 

ecolad

Registered User
Nov 17, 2015
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I suspect that one of Maurice`s more pressing challenges is to decide where in the lineup he should finally utilize Ehlers and Laine. This experiment (and that`s what it is guys) playing both on one line, first with Copp as C, and perhaps also later with Petan, is imo a last ditch effort to assess whether he can think of putting them together on one line and get positive outcomes, both offensively and defensively, or not. If I were a betting man, my money would be on Maurice concluding that they have to be separated to make the most positive contribution to the team. Remember that he has already auditioned both with Scheifele at C last year, and with Little this year,- with less than stellar results. It`s not hard to see that neither Ehlers nor Laine have been able to fit well into the basic dump and chase/high pressure forecheck that is the very foundation of Maurice`s approach to hockey. Putting them together on one line seems to magnify the issues.

The complication for Maurice in terms of setting a preferred lineup undoubtedly has been the earlier than expected emergence of both Connor and Roslovic. Spending time in the AHL working one on one with the coaches has prepared them much better to fit the style of the big club. It will be interesting to see how this all settles out, won`t it? It will be especially interesting to see how Maurice reconciles his thoughts about Hendricks and Tanev as well. He has been publicly open with his view that the team is in need of the physicality brought by these 2, and that the team has been decidedly different (in a non good way) without them in the lineup. Hmmm - interesting times indeed.
 
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pucka lucka

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Apr 7, 2010
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What merit badge system? It's not that hard to argue Maurice is trying to get the most out of his players by how he's matching them up. Until he starts reducing ice time dramatically then I'm not sure I see a punishment.

Disagree with the strategy, sure, but a punishment, don't know.

When I say merit badge system I mean a simplistic unsophisticated system of moving players down lines instead of seeing the lines as a single system and using players appropriately for overall gains. A simplistic system based on individual merit is not how anything should work at this level. It seems to be a much bigger part of how coaches like PoMo manage ice time than it should.

It seems really amateur that we keep having to rely on these silly tropes to justify why weaker players are playing above stronger ones. PoMo should be doing everything he can to get Laine more looks at the goalie, but we keep hearing dumb shit about earning his ice time. He earned his damn ice time by scoring 36 goals as a 18 year old. If these coaches aren't sophisticated enough to manage some player ego's while optimizing the lineup maybe the game has passed them by.

This isn't just about Laine. The big reason I don't like coaches like PoMo is because they can only coach one way. He can't find a way to use players like Petan or Dano, so he gives chipmunks like Tanev 17 mins a game. PoMo loves you if you skate up and down your lane fast. That's pretty much his #1 criteria for playing time.
 

pucka lucka

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Apr 7, 2010
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What merit badge system? It's not that hard to argue Maurice is trying to get the most out of his players by how he's matching them up. Until he starts reducing ice time dramatically then I'm not sure I see a punishment.

Disagree with the strategy, sure, but a punishment, don't know.

PoMo is my biggest concern around playoff success. When an opposing team can put so much focus on just beating us, I worry that a competent coach will gameplan their way to a victory. Do many really think PoMo is the guy to earn wins by out coaching?
 
Jun 15, 2013
5,562
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Winnipeg
I'm curious why you would prefer Scheifele to create offense that way?

I'd cry if they killed his creativity like that.

I can mostly agree with the rest of your post. Although completely disagree that team is better with them apart. Nothing supports that theory. Everything points to that being the most important duo to have together production wise.

Killed creativity cycling the puck? The players that have excelled at it include Getzlav, the Sedins, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg...

Scheifele excels at beating teams down in the offensive zone. When he peaks he'll likely be the best in the NHL on the cycle. His combination of body position, size & skill already have him in this conversation.

Place a dozen Scheifele's against a dozen Ehlers and the former runs up the score to the point they'd institute a 10 run rule like in pee wee baseball.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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So PoMo putting to guys with a much weaker center isn't a punishment, but a what again? How in **** is Copp supposed to help Laine and Ehlers play better? These coaches and their junior high level psychology. It's a simple caste system as PoMo perceives it. How well Laine has plyed with Little is irrelevant. PoMo should be worried about how to get the most of players not some ill conceived merit badge system

I think he is trying to get the most out of his player. That's the reason for the line shuffling. It's about winning games. Nothing else
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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Ehlers have played 3 games with Scheifele this season and Laine 1 game with Him!! Wheeler every game with Scheifele.. Will Wheeler ever play with Little again? Dont Think so.. ehlers needs chef or Wheeler on his line and Laine needs Perreault or Chef on his line.. it Should not be this difficult!! Ehlers have 0 confidence anymore and Play Like crap... you have 1 of the most dynamic players in this League and the Best score in Laine and you Play them 13-14 min. sad... ohhh well just get Some wins and get to the playoff please!!

No I think you are wrong. Ehlers and Laine need to learn to be complete players. In the meantime the only thing that matters is winning games. This gives us a better chance of winning games now and in the future. ECL will benefit from easier matchups and if Bednar doesn't co-operate then the Little line will benefit instead. It's actually a brilliant coaching move. Hopefully it results in a return of confidence for E & L. They seem to be lacking it lately.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
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Evanston, IL
If Laine falls 19 points behind Wheeler despite being a strictly offensive player, AND being a better player, I think it's time to start worrying about his failure to put up points.

Of course, if you don't think Laine is better than Wheeler, there is no need to worry.
 
Jun 15, 2013
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Winnipeg
Auston Matthews 18:18 TOI/gp

Patrik Laine 16:46 TOI/gp

You caught me cherry picking data...no fair!

Here's their TOI side by side. As my OP stated Laine has more TOI, I just didn't mention it was because Matthews has played in 8 less games. You gotta back-up your posts with information that supports your position right?

In summation, neither play on the penalty kill, Laine gets over an extra minute of PP time. Matthews gets an extra 4 shifts per game & as a result 90 seconds of TOI per game played.

Screen Shot 2018-02-16 at 5.06.33 PM.png
 

Psych0dad

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Sep 27, 2017
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Killed creativity cycling the puck? The players that have excelled at it include Getzlav, the Sedins, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg...

Scheifele excels at beating teams down in the offensive zone. When he peaks he'll likely be the best in the NHL on the cycle. His combination of body position, size & skill already have him in this conversation.

Place a dozen Scheifele's against a dozen Ehlers and the former runs up the score to the point they'd institute a 10 run rule like in pee wee baseball.

I don't have a problem with cycling, it's extremely important. But Chef and Laine have more patience with the puck and that is their strength. They are also more skilled with their sticks than Wheeler and Little. So they create better quality chances and more actual goals because of the quality of those chances. Cycling requires patience from puck carrier. Wheeler and Little take bad shots compared to the other two, their idea is to get a lot of pucks to the net and force rebounds in. Laine and Chef create totally differently.
 

Dayofthedogs

Bettman's hammer
Feb 20, 2016
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So these lines should be fun.

I'm really digging the idea that another good young player is always breathing down your neck for your ice time.

Connor
Roslo
Laine
Ehlers

And to a lesser extent Copp and Petan.

This is excellent. Whoever is going in any given game will get the ice time.

If anyone saw the shot of the Jets bench after Chef scored the tying goal Laine, Ehlers and Petan all seemed like they cared about winning more than being stapled to the bench in the 3rd... Unfortunate that some of their fans can't enjoy it.
 
Jun 15, 2013
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Winnipeg
I don't have a problem with cycling, it's extremely important. But Chef and Laine have more patience with the puck and that is their strength. They are also more skilled with their sticks than Wheeler and Little. So they create better quality chances and more actual goals because of the quality of those chances. Cycling requires patience from puck carrier. Wheeler and Little take bad shots compared to the other two, their idea is to get a lot of pucks to the net and force rebounds in. Laine and Chef create totally differently.

How will you feel if Laine scores his first hat trick of the season tonight? Calling for an early second period goal assisted by Petan that gets it rolling followed by 2 PP markers.
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
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What's your excuse?
This seems like a good time and game to switch up the lines. If we see Petan or Connor replace Wheeler on the half-wall on either PP I'll be even more relaxed.


Wheeler always looks terrible in that spot, until he lays a perfect pass across.

He's been really racking up the PP points. I wouldn't be so quick to yank him off pp1
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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I don't have a problem with cycling, it's extremely important. But Chef and Laine have more patience with the puck and that is their strength. They are also more skilled with their sticks than Wheeler and Little. So they create better quality chances and more actual goals because of the quality of those chances. Cycling requires patience from puck carrier. Wheeler and Little take bad shots compared to the other two, their idea is to get a lot of pucks to the net and force rebounds in. Laine and Chef create totally differently.

Nah, this isn't very accurate. Scheif can cycle with the best of them and so can Wheeler. Wheeler's game is not predicated on jamming shots at the net and getting rebounds. He takes some bad shots but so do most players from time to time.

Cycling the puck seems to be very misunderstood.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
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How will you feel if Laine scores his first hat trick of the season tonight? Calling for an early second period goal assisted by Petan that gets it rolling followed by 2 PP markers.

Would be happy of course. I also think it will work better than ELL but the reason it might work is the matchup, not Copps playmaking. Laine might get matchups where he can do more of those solo runs that Maurice has reduced him to.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
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Saint John, N.B
Nah, this isn't very accurate. Scheif can cycle with the best of them and so can Wheeler. Wheeler's game is not predicated on jamming shots at the net and getting rebounds. He takes some bad shots but so do most players from time to time.

Cycling the puck seems to be very misunderstood.

I don't notice much wrong in Laines cycle game. He moves to empty spots with the play and usually makes great passes and obviously is very good at deciding when to shoot.

His weaknesses are just physical, due to age, and cannot be cured by demanding him to be what he simply cannot be right now.

Use your pieces right instead of expecting and demanding them to fit in the wrong slots. When he physically can be a 20+ min a game line driver, then it's time to have him drive a line with lesser players to success. Right now is the time to use his strengths for the good of the team by maximizing his shot.
 
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Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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I don't notice much wrong in Laines cycle game. He moves to empty spots with the play and usually makes great passes and obviously is very good at deciding when to shoot.

His weaknesses are just physical, due to age, and cannot be cured by demanding him to be what he simply cannot be right now.

Use your pieces right instead of expecting and demanding them to fit in the wrong slots. When he physically can be a 20+ min a game line driver, then it's time to have him drive a line with lesser players to success. Right now is the time to use his strengths for the good of the team by maximizing his shot.
Reality is you have to be able to do more than shoot, especially the way the Jets structure their play.

He also ends up on the wrong side of the puck a lot. No doubt he'll learn to do it better.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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When I say merit badge system I mean a simplistic unsophisticated system of moving players down lines instead of seeing the lines as a single system and using players appropriately for overall gains. A simplistic system based on individual merit is not how anything should work at this level. It seems to be a much bigger part of how coaches like PoMo manage ice time than it should.

It seems really amateur that we keep having to rely on these silly tropes to justify why weaker players are playing above stronger ones. PoMo should be doing everything he can to get Laine more looks at the goalie, but we keep hearing dumb **** about earning his ice time. He earned his damn ice time by scoring 36 goals as a 18 year old. If these coaches aren't sophisticated enough to manage some player ego's while optimizing the lineup maybe the game has passed them by.

This isn't just about Laine. The big reason I don't like coaches like PoMo is because they can only coach one way. He can't find a way to use players like Petan or Dano, so he gives chipmunks like Tanev 17 mins a game. PoMo loves you if you skate up and down your lane fast. That's pretty much his #1 criteria for playing time.
While I agree with much of this, I'm not sure that's what we're seeing tonight. I don't think in this instance weaker players are playing above stronger ones, that will be reflected in TOI.

The last paragraph I relate with.
 

PhilJets

Winnipeg is Good
Jun 24, 2012
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So these lines should be fun.

I'm really digging the idea that another good young player is always breathing down your neck for your ice time.

Connor
Roslo
Laine
Ehlers

And to a lesser extent Copp and Petan.

This is excellent. Whoever is going in any given game will get the ice time.

If anyone saw the shot of the Jets bench after Chef scored the tying goal Laine, Ehlers and Petan all seemed like they cared about winning more than being stapled to the bench in the 3rd... Unfortunate that some of their fans can't enjoy it.

These guys are team players.
As good as they are. Never complain.
 

pucka lucka

Registered User
Apr 7, 2010
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While I agree with much of this, I'm not sure that's what we're seeing tonight. I don't think in this instance weaker players are playing above stronger ones, that will be reflected in TOI.

The last paragraph I relate with.
Like Tanev and Copp playing more than Perreault until an injury forced a change? Thorburn over anyone etc. It may or may not happen with this latest configuration, but PoMo has a history of doing weird suboptimal things with or without results...
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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Like Tanev and Copp playing more than Perreault until an injury forced a change? Thorburn over anyone etc. It may or may not happen with this latest configuration, but PoMo has a history of doing weird suboptimal things with or without results...
Agreed, if Laine and Ehlers end up playing under 11:00 EV over the next few games I'll be just as perplexed as I was when he did it to Perreault.
 

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