Line Combos: Roster Discussions

Discussion in 'Winnipeg Jets' started by avtarb, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    That's the beauty of the depth the Jets have, if they play a true 4th against ours, they'll get killed. If teams are mainly just going to roll 3 lines then at some point their top line is doing double duty against ours and the Lowry line, which at some point down the road is going to leave a mismatch for our 2nd or 3rd.
     
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  2. one other person

    one other person Registered User

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    I think that Lowry and Armia together will happen for sure, maybe, somehow. Other pieces will fall into place around them.
     
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  3. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    Copp Lowry Armia will most certainly be a thing.
     
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  4. KingBogo

    KingBogo Admitted Homer

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    Why do you want E-S-L off the easy matchups? That is a much better spot for them as it frees up offense and it has allowed them to run free. They have been able to feast pretty good in this situation. Having an over abundance of scoring is our biggest advantage. MP-Little my be struggling a bit but they are better defensive players than Laine and Ehlers, by quite a margin. C-S-W have been doing the real heavy lifting on the line matchups with Lowry out. I'll guarantee you if Mo ever hard matched E-S-L against the other teams top line this board would explode with anger on stifling Laine, and people would be calling out Stastny for having no chemistry with Laine.
     
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  5. KingBogo

    KingBogo Admitted Homer

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    I'm really not sure why this board has for some reason completely started ignoring matchups like they don't matter. Lowry is far more valuable to this team than many give him credit for. When he is in the lineup taking on the tough assignments then Scheifele and Wheeler can be freed up and can overpower lesser players on the pressure and cycle game.
     
  6. Festinator

    Festinator Registered User

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    Thing is, how much longer are teams gonna keep allowing ESL the easy match-ups on the road? How much longer before they start treating PLR like the third line? If ESL continues dominating their match-ups, teams are going to start giving them more attention.

    Not saying we should go ahead and do it, but if it happened I wouldn't be appalled.
     
  7. portamoral

    portamoral Registered User

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    It's nice to finally see laine doing some damage at ES now that stastny has arrived and been exactly what the doc ordered. However I still think the lineup is far from optimal. Scheif and laine were made for each other and should be reunited if we want to see the best from both of them. Throw perreault into that equation and you probably have the best line in the league.

    The second best option would be to keep laine+stastny together, sheltered on the 3rd line. But I just think scheif+laine is far too dominant to pass up. Although having another great playmaking, play driving center like stastny does change things a bit in the sense that, before he arrived you literally only had one option to play with laine. Now there's 2 good ones.

    If Maurice keeps laine and stastny together, I think a decent idea would be to swap ehlers out with roslovic on that line and reunite PSE from a few years ago. Then CLW can be a thing.
     
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  8. LowLefty

    LowLefty Panglossian

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    Yup - thanks for laying it out.
    The current rotation is not really fair - I see us more as a #1A and B right now with Little centering the 3rd line. It will be extremely difficult to match A and B when the 4th is rolling over apposing 4th line talent. At home, it becomes even more of a nightmare for the opposition.
     
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  9. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Cherry picking stats & comments? Ha, I've watched every single Jets game this season and missed around ten games last season. What I say has zero to do with other fans @ HFboards and everything to do with what I witness with my own eyes.

    For the "decision making & line usage", did you ignore half of what I posted or pretty much all of it? It included utilization of the ELL for ~half the season and another recent example from the game against Preds, where someone's judgement lost the team the game. If these are not about line utilization I'm not quite sure what is. Perhaps you should read again before replying.

    Regarding powerplay, was I referring to this season or last? I thought I pretty specifically was pointing out to the latter. I never claimed he wasn't properly used in PP this year and out of everything said this is where I was partly off the board as I didn't remember Laine actually playing in the 1st PP until the very end of last year, but he in fact he started in the 1st PP and then got demoted to the second (and back to net front presence to 1st unit at the end of 16-17). Again, take some time to look at what your replying to.

    In the end Hellebuyck's improvements during the off-season have a lot to do with where the team is now. As I underlined and you confirmed, this has nothing to do with P.Maurice and everything to do with helping the team win games.

    Just wow, should they hand out votes to other coaches from the losing teams then? Don't think it works that way. I'm not surprised P.Mo getting recognition from the team's success. Yet again, as I said I have little doubt another average coach could do the same given the roster. I mean how many teams can afford to have a top 4 league goal scorer in the third line? Indeed, that should tell you something about the depth.

    The results speak that they have a great team and Wheelers stating that "this has to be the year" I think even before it really begun pretty much tells the story. And who put this team together again, was it Chevy or Maurice? The latter is collecting the fruits as we speak. It needed an injury for the same man to break up the team's worst line (ELL) after almost half of the season was through. Some maybe 20 to 30 games after even the fans already had come to the conclusion of it not really panning out.

    I'm not seeing anything particular that would have raised his stocks during 17-18. The Jets are where they should be in the standings considering the roster. Perhaps they could have turned even some of those losses into wins with another anchor. Maurice still has weak spot for his vets and has utilized the lines rather questionably throughout the year. I'm not sure where the improvement is for him as a coach in general. That said, Maurice is the record holder for the most regular season losses in the history of the NHL.
     
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  10. Arthur Fonzarelli

    Arthur Fonzarelli "aaaaay"

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    You start off inferring you'd never cherry pick stats & then contradict yourself in your closing remark. That'll earn you a failing you grade in writing circles & an eviction from the debating team

    Maurice is 14th all time regular season games coached, 17th overall in NHL games won, 5th in terms of active games coached & 7th in active wins. Cherry picking data is easy!

    Do I believe Paul Maurice is the second coming of Scotty Bowman? Hell no. Up until this season Maurice has been less a tactician & instead a literal "coach", employing methods that encourage player growth.

    Maurice's entire history as a coach has been as a developmental one. All of his past tenure's have been dealing with very young teams. He is the epitome of the type of coach a "draft & develop" team would hire. This Jet's team is no different. Until the Stastny acquisition the Jets were the NHL's second youngest by a handful of months.

    There are many other young teams in the NHL, some of which have drafted considerably higher than the Jets year after year. Edmonton immediately springs to mind. Whereas they find themselves once again at the bottom of the standings, the Jets are points away from being the league leader.

    Further even when out of the playoffs, the Jets with Maurice at the helm have battled to the end of every season with a "tank be damned" motto.

    I'm glad to hear you're a fan. You'll have to forgive me, but I found much of your post following the same rhetoric that's grow stale here, namely Laine's lack of PP time, proportional usage, Maurice being a bad coach, complaints of ELL without taking into consideration the sum of all the factors of why it was in place.

    Much of the above statements have been addressed time & time again with strong arguments that counter all these points. For regular posters the circular conversation has become tedious.

    What really irks me about posts like yours is it's negative nature amidst what has been a dream season for our hometown boys.

    We've had years of mediocrity & negative attitude that was rightly earned.

    It's time to toss that aside & enjoy the moment we are in.

    Go Jets Go!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  11. Jetsfareast

    Jetsfareast #werisetogether

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    They already have with the defenseman match up. Not exclusively like the forward match up. Better defensemen match up against stastny line.

    And yes if Laine and his linemates keep firing and scoring. They will for sure get the best defensive forward match up also from the other team. Most likely Schiefele and Stastny line will get that match up against. Freeing up Little line, which we hope they will be able to score more?
     
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  12. Jetsfareast

    Jetsfareast #werisetogether

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    We have to see, playoffs are different. Depending on the opponent match up.
    If it is Dallas and/or Pres , yeah that will be a high scoring games. How about other teams?
    Jets goal is for sure to have lines that will prevent lease amount of goals.
    BUT you also have to have lines that will score more goals than what they give up, not just preventing.

    And DEFINITELY for sure, once Lowry is back centering the shutdown line. Less pressure on Schiefele carrying the hardest match up. So that will help big time.

    Jets have the tools now and it looks like they are ready.

    so GO JETS GO
     
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  13. KingBogo

    KingBogo Admitted Homer

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    Agreed, we may soon see E-S-L being matched harder.I don't think it will mater against the Rangers tonight, but as we move through the road trip it will be interesting how the stronger teams try to match up against the Jets. Up until this point other teams have tried to shut down Scheifele and Wheeler, we will see if E-S-L starts getting some extra attention.
     
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  14. 10Ducky10

    10Ducky10 Registered User

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    Maurice's stats from long ago don't matter ...quit living in the past. Pretty soon he will be the Jets coach with the most wins in a season and that is much more current than what worries you. Try living in the present.
     
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  15. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    And which stats would these be again?

    Talking about cherry-picking:

    While I never once made statements of Laine being used badly in PP this year. :D

    If "cherry-picking" in your mind is a simple referral to fact of what Maurice has accomplished career-wise, you'd simply be chewings nails outside the Jets forums, ha. So there are 13 coaches ahead of him in games played, while he reminds at the very bottom of that list that comes down to the losses. "Yay".

    You did hit the nail in the coffin there with pointing out Maurice tenure being developmental. I wonder how long it would take should he go shopping for new pair of shoes. When this man is expected or should make changes to get the absolute optimal output from his team, he does nothing. When things start clicking with a line (like it did with Perreault - Little - Ehlers) he would not keep it together because there was no way Laine could be promoted to the first line so instead of going with the sure thing, he started mixing things up yet again. He hasn't been able to find balance so that all lines could get consistent results as expected given their roles & ice time, until very recently, but even that took him Stastny and some 60 played games (not to mention Little's line still having lots to do to regain form). The age isn't an issue as long as these kids are better than an average old school player, and they are.

    You bring up these examples of teams drafting here and there, as if it had anything whatsoever to do with Maurice. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this until it's received, but it is Chevy who drafts these talents, not good old Paul.

    Would you mind elaborating the rest of us this sum of factors you were referring to, of why ELL was in place and in the end played the what, 40(?) games together? I find this part fascinating so please would you be kind enough to share why in fact they were shackled to one another the way they did despite of being piss-poor at the ice? Furthermore if you don't mind, why not continue and explain what these so called strong counter-arguments were again that somehow justified the utilization when it made no sense (even less the further and further we dive into the 17-18).

    You do understand that I was criticising P.Mo here, not the Jets right? No one has been above critique this year so why should he? I do not know how you find the timing so convenient to drag this "old" post of mine back into light since the team has actually been doing quite well of late and even Laine has had some kind of share of the ice time. In general, if you don't like what you're reading, just turn the page.

    Oh and I've been enjoying myself ever since Laine was cut away from Little and that's been like 8 games now!

    Perhaps they don't matter or perhaps they do. If person is under scrutiny, would it be fair to judge him based on what he is today (alone) or would you get more accurate picture looking back to all and every year of his life? Like pointed out above there are 13 coaches with more games and less losses. I'm aware that he is extended and unless he falls out in the first round of the playoffs, there's little reason to expect him to disappear, but that doesn't change the way I think about him. I see a lot of his old bad habits still in the play and I doubt he'll learn new tricks going forward. I'd be happy to be wrong of course. Time will tell.
     
  16. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    It's odd how much Maurice's success drives people crazy. Good teams and good goaltenders make good coaches, it's not rocket science. Could another coach be successful with the Jets roster? Of course, why does that matter? Who cares.

    The Jets have employed a variety of line combos all year, and the team has continued to be successful. To me, Maurice's success this year has come from how he has his team playing regardless of who is in the lineup and where. It hasn't mattered, they play the same way, because they are well coached.
     
  17. 10Ducky10

    10Ducky10 Registered User

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    Do any of those 13 coaches have the jets ready to win their 40th game of the year this season? Didn't think so. You are probably one of the people that would complain about winning the Stanley Cup in 6 games instead of 5.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  18. Weezeric

    Weezeric Registered User

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    Did you hear Maurice's recent presser? He said that matchups matter a lot less than people think. If players are playing well then they win the matchup, if not then they lose. I couldn't agree more. I don't think scheifele and wheeler have forgotten how to play hockey. All players have ups and downs. It's going to be ok.
     
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  19. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Some worthless presumption and beside the conversation. Well, at least we both hope Maurice gets past first round in the Cup for the second time in his career.
     
  20. Ippenator

    Ippenator Registered User

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    They are pretty much doing it already on the road. Carolina was for example having Ryan’s line mostly against PLR. And as watching Carolina’s games almost as much as the Jets games I can say that Ryan’s line is a clearly weaker line for the Canes. Carolina was playing their shutdown line with Staal mostly against Scheifele’s line and their clearly best scoring line with Aho, Lindholm and Teräväinen the most against Stastny’s line.
     
  21. Insthofen

    Insthofen Registered User

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    I seem to be seeing the game differently from many fans, but I think Myers is great and improving steadily. He wants to keep the puck long, but it's intentional, as he wants to improve his opening game. To me he is top 3 defender in the team.
     
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  22. Gm0ney

    Gm0ney Unicorns salient

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    Maurice says a lot of stuff... ;)
     
  23. Halberdier

    Halberdier Registered User

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    This should probably go to the Laine thread, but as it is about the effect of his linemates, let's post it here. Here are all the 9 line combinations Laine has been playing through his two first seasons at least 50 minutest 5-on-5, ordered by GF% best to the worst:

    corsica.png

    Sadly GF/60 and GA/60 are not calculated in Corsica, but just by looking GF and TOI you can get a pretty good idea how deep offensive black hole that ELL line was. PLE was significantly better, but still not winning their game and still much behind the usual GF/60 with Laine. Also somehow the LSW was never a huge success.

    All the rest line combinations: just look at the GF/60 (or GF / TOI)!

    For ESLv2 GF/60 is insane 10+ but for other 5 successful line combinations that has been around 5, which is still really high.

    Effect of matching line mates is huge in hockey as demonstrated by large sample size by Laine and his several different line mates. If it was only this season when Laine had quite low GF/60 with Ehlers and Little you could address them just being not in shape, and that might have some partial truths in it even, but the problem for this theory is that ELL spans for two seasons and it did never mesh very well. And when that was for even short periods of times broken, other lineups did magically just a better job.
     
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  24. SUX2BU

    SUX2BU Lighten up, Francis ......

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    I remember one particular game against Pittsburgh in Feb 2017, the power play unit was:

    Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers
    Morrissey, Trouba

    For almost 2 minutes, they had Pittsburgh on the ropes

    I wish Maurice and the coaching staff would put this unit out more after seeing these young bucks in action

    I know we have plenty of personnel that can do the job, but man, these kids were good on that particular power play

    Once healthy, let’s try this unit again
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  25. Coachcorner

    Coachcorner Senor Martinez

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    Just one more question: Is Lowry returning this weekend already? They said early march.
     

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