Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

Status
Not open for further replies.

Matt4776

Registered User
May 8, 2009
2,896
690
WARNING: PLANNING TOO FAR INTO THE FUTURE FOR FUN ALERT

I'm going to echo someone else (I forget who I apologize) in this thread. I think this is going to be an accelerated rebuild- and I think Gorton is going to do it by making a splash in the 2019 UFA class to grab a d-man a la Chara in 2005. I also don't think we need to trade away Spooner or Namestnikov unless the salary cap forces us to and/or prospects force their way into the lineup at their expense. They are young RFAs. They will still have value if we need to trade them 1-4 years from now.

I'd like to trade into the top-3 (assuming we aren't graced by the lottery gods) to take Zadina/Svechnikov. We have the extra picks (and players like Zuccarello) to make it happen. I have a preference for Zadina, but whatever.

I messed with CapFriendly, and came up with this roster for 2019-20 assuming an 84M cap in 2019-20. Impossible to predict two years in advance, but I saw 82M for next year, so I thought 84M was a safe estimate. Perhaps it is a little lower or a little higher.

fdvf9k.png


Who knows who the fourth line LW could be. Could be a Rangers reclamation project a la Pouliot, Grabner.etc, maybe a guy like Ronning surprises, maybe Boo sticks around... who knows. I put Beleskey as a placeholder since he has a high cap hit. Assuming he's buried in the minors, the cap hit of his replacement will be negated by the savings of Beleskey being in the minors. I used Gropp as a placeholder for an extra forward.

I'm not saying this is a top forward group in the league year one, and it will likely struggle given their age (mostly the line I listed as the second line), but that forward group is at least competitive in every game. And none of them are going to be making BIG money. Perhaps I gave Buch too much in what will likely be a bridge deal (since we get a TON of money off the books in 2021), but I wanted to be on the side of giving too much for realism's sake.

I think our goalie situation will still be very solid by then with Hank and Shesty/Georgiev backing him up.

Defense is going to be more of a struggle. We will undoubtedly keep Staal (and rightfully so) until (if) some of our many LD prospects kick him out a la Rozsival. I also think we'll only see one of Pionk or ADA on this team long term. I hope one convincingly takes a step forward. I used Day as a placeholder for a 7th dman.

We have no top pairing RD in the system. Gorton might have a chance to get a 29 year old Drew Doughty or Erik Karlsson. I picked Karlsson since he will be the most expensive. Girardi's cap hit drops to 1.1M in 2020. Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, and yes, even Hank come off the books in 2021. There will likely be a lockout following the CBA expiration, likely with more compliance buyouts. If I recall, the last lockout gave you up to two years to execute the buyout. If Doughty/Karlsson struggle tremendously or look to be dropping off (would be fourish years into their contract at this point), a compliance buyout could be used.

All of this is also assuming we can't find someone to take Smith with some money retained. The cap will also likely continue to increase as the years go on.

I spent way too long on this, and obviously it's not going to happen as things happen, players bust (though Chytil and Andersson are showing great results against men which is promising), players are traded.etc, but I think it is a fairly realistic possible roadmap going forward that has us competitive again the year after next, with (in my opinion) true Cup aspirations beginning the years that follow.

EDIT: Forgot to mention there is obvious flexibility in trading Hayes/Namestnikov/Spooner for futures/cheaper players if the cap gets too tight and/or prospects are knocking at the door.
 
Last edited:

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,993
16,745
Jacksonville, FL
Looking at general depth for next year the Rangers appear to have:

Center:
Zibanejad
Hayes
(Spooner)
(Namestnikov)
Nieves
Holland
Andersson
Chytil


LW:
Kreider
Vesey
Spooner
Namestnikov
(Andersson)
(Beleskey)


RW:
Zuccarello
Buchnevich
Lettieri
Fast
Beleskey



LD:
Skjei
Staal
Gilmour
O'Gara
Smith?

RD:
Shattenkirk
ADA
Pionk
Kampfer


That would leave something like:

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello
Spooner-Chytil/Spooner-Lettieri
Vesey-Nieves/Holland-Fast
Nieves/Holland
Beleskey?

Skjei-Pionk
Staal-ADA
Gilmour-Shattenkirk
O'Gara-Kampfer

Hank
Georgiev

So theoretically, all of these guys like Kovalchuk, Nash, Grabner, ROUSSEL, etc. Where are those guys playing? If we start hearing the Rangers are going to be active in UFA, guys will need to be shipped out or demoted.
 

Blueblood9

Registered User
Dec 11, 2011
2,164
457
Nashville, TN
WARNING: PLANNING TOO FAR INTO THE FUTURE FOR FUN ALERT

I'm going to echo someone else (I forget who I apologize) in this thread. I think this is going to be an accelerated rebuild- and I think Gorton is going to do it by making a splash in the 2019 UFA class to grab a d-man a la Chara in 2005. I also don't think we need to trade away Spooner or Namestkinov unless the salary cap forces us to and/or prospects force their way into the lineup at their expense. They are young RFAs. They will still have value if we need to trade them 1-4 years from now.

I'd like to trade into the top-3 (assuming we aren't graced by the lottery gods) to take Zadina/Svechnikov. We have the extra picks (and players like Zuccarello) to make it happen. I have a preference for Zadina, but whatever.

I messed with CapFriendly, and came up with this roster for 2019-20 assuming an 84M cap in 2019-20. Impossible to predict two years in advance, but I saw 82M for next year, so I thought 84M was a safe estimate. Perhaps it is a little lower or a little higher.

fdvf9k.png


Who knows who the fourth line LW could be. Could be a Rangers reclamation project a la Pouliot, Grabner.etc, maybe a guy like Ronning surprises, maybe Boo sticks around... who knows. I put Beleskey as a placeholder since he has a high cap hit. Assuming he's buried in the minors, the cap hit of his replacement will be negated by the savings of Beleskey being in the minors. I used Gropp as a placeholder for an extra forward.

I'm not saying this is a top forward group in the league year one, and it will likely struggle given their age (mostly the line I listed as the second line), but that forward group is at least competitive in every game. And none of them are going to be making BIG money. Perhaps I gave Buch too much in what will likely be a bridge deal (since we get a TON of money off the books in 2021), but I wanted to be on the side of giving too much for realism's sake.

I think our goalie situation will still be very solid by then with Hank and Shesty/Georgiev backing him up.

Defense is going to be more of a struggle. We will undoubtedly keep Staal (and rightfully so) until (if) some of our many LD prospects kick him out a la Rozsival. I also think we'll only see one of Pionk or ADA on this team long term. I hope one convincingly takes a step forward. I used Day as a placeholder for a 7th dman.

We have no top pairing RD in the system. Gorton might have a chance to get a 29 year old Drew Doughty or Erik Karlsson. I picked Karlsson since he will be the most expensive. Girardi's cap hit drops to 1.1M in 2020. Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, and yes, even Hank come off the books in 2021. There will likely be a lockout following the CBA expiration, likely with more compliance buyouts. If I recall, the last lockout gave you up to two years to execute the buyout. If Doughty/Karlsson struggle tremendously or look to be dropping off (would be fourish years into their contract at this point), a compliance buyout could be used.

All of this is also assuming we can't find someone to take Smith with some money retained. The cap will also likely continue to increase as the years go on.

I spent way too long on this, and obviously it's not going to happen as things happen, players bust (though Chytil and Andersson are showing great results against men which is promising), players are traded.etc, but I think it is a fairly realistic possible roadmap going forward that has us competitive again the year after next, with (in my opinion) true Cup aspirations beginning the years that follow.

EDIT: Forgot to mention there is obvious flexibility in trading Hayes/Namestnikov/Spooner for futures/cheaper players if the cap gets too tight and/or prospects are knocking at the door.

That was me and you went into more detail then I could or have the time to do at the moment. So thank you.
 

NoQuitInNewMexico

Registered User
Jan 7, 2011
6,551
3,353
new mexico lol
Looking at general depth for next year the Rangers appear to have:

Center:
Zibanejad
Hayes
(Spooner)
(Namestnikov)
Nieves
Holland
Andersson
Chytil


LW:
Kreider
Vesey
Spooner
Namestnikov
(Andersson)
(Beleskey)


RW:
Zuccarello
Buchnevich
Lettieri
Fast
Beleskey



LD:
Skjei
Staal
Gilmour
O'Gara
Smith?

RD:
Shattenkirk
ADA
Pionk
Kampfer


That would leave something like:

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello
Spooner-Chytil/Spooner-Lettieri
Vesey-Nieves/Holland-Fast
Nieves/Holland
Beleskey?

Skjei-Pionk
Staal-ADA
Gilmour-Shattenkirk
O'Gara-Kampfer

Hank
Georgiev

So theoretically, all of these guys like Kovalchuk, Nash, Grabner, ROUSSEL, etc. Where are those guys playing? If we start hearing the Rangers are going to be active in UFA, guys will need to be shipped out or demoted.
Lettieri's the obvious man out, if Chytil comes up (not a guarantee either) would you rather have him play most of his rookie season with something like Spooner and Kovalchuk or something like Spooner and Vinni Lettieri? Nothing wrong with him as an injury callup or a 13F.

We could bring DD back too, which will make people furious. I think the line with him, Vesey and Fast would be fine as a 4th line. As a 3rd line above a space junk McLeod-Holland-Lettieri line of course it has some rough nights.
 

Fitzy

Very Stable Genius
Jan 29, 2009
35,036
21,713
Kreider-Zib-Buch
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello
Spooner-Chytil/Spooner-Lettieri
Vesey-Nieves/Holland-Fast
Nieves/Holland
Beleskey?

Skjei-Pionk
Staal-ADA
Gilmour-Shattenkirk
O'Gara-Kampfer

Hank
Georgiev

So theoretically, all of these guys like Kovalchuk, Nash, Grabner, ROUSSEL, etc. Where are those guys playing? If we start hearing the Rangers are going to be active in UFA, guys will need to be shipped out or demoted.

Hopefully in place of Vesey and Lettieri, if we get them. Vinny L hasn't done enough to deserve an uncontested spot next season. If we keep both Spooner and Namestnikov we should drop Vesey off at the nearest soup kitchen.

Also, if we have Gilmour in the NHL to start next season we really are going to be a contender for the lottery pick 2 years in a row.
 

Samuel Culper III

Mr. Woodhull...
Jan 15, 2007
13,144
1,099
Texas
Next year:

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Namestnikov - Hayes - Kovy**
Chytil - Andersson - Fast
Vesey - Lettieri/Nieves - Calvert**
Skjei - Shattenkirk
Cole** - DeAngelo
Staal - Pionk
Lundqvist

I have Zucc and Spooner being flipped at the draft. If one of Chytil/LA isn’t making the jump, Spooner stays to fill the spot.

Two years:

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Tkachuk - Chytil - Kovy
Namestnikov - Andersson - Hayes
Vesey - Lettieri/Nieves - Fast
Skjei - Karlsson
Hjalmarsson - Shattenkirk
Cole - DeAngelo
Lundqvist

Tkachuk joins the team after being drafted and not rushed the year earlier. Karlsson signs, Hjalmarsson signs. Cole slides down to third pair. Staal is bought out. I’d like a better 4C than Nieves/Lettieri. Vesey can easily be replaced with an upgrade as well. Top 9 looks decent and Howden should be knocking on the door at this point.
 

Amazing Kreiderman

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
44,854
40,364
Now, let's trade Spooner, Hayes and Vesey.

Hayes+Vesey to Florida for 2018 first
Spooner to Arizona for 2018 2nd
Zuccarello to Edmonton for 2018 first

;)
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,229
22,258
Not sure moving the young guys (Lias, filip, Howden) to wing is good thing. They all have been progressing well at center and Howden prefers the center position. Gonna be interesting to see which one of the "vet" three get traded. Hayes? Zibby ? or Namestnikov? Definitely not a bad thing to be super deep down the middle. Much better than being very poor at center . pretty much the kiss of death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leetch99

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
Not sure moving the young guys (Lias, filip, Howden) to wing is good thing. They all have been progressing well at center and Howden prefers the center position. Gonna be interesting to see which one of the "vet" three get traded. Hayes? Zibby ? or Namestnikov? Definitely not a bad thing to be super deep down the middle. Much better than being very poor at center . pretty much the kiss of death.
I think Hayes is the odd man out.
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,993
16,745
Jacksonville, FL
Now, let's trade Spooner, Hayes and Vesey.

Hayes+Vesey to Florida for 2018 first
Spooner to Arizona for 2018 2nd
Zuccarello to Edmonton for 2018 first

;)

I think that is where I was coming from. I think that if the Rangers are looking to augment their lineup this off-season via UFA they will have guys that need to be moved. Kovalchuk has been linked with them for a little while. I wouldn't be surprised if the guys moved are Vesey and Spooner.
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,229
22,258
I think Hayes is the odd man out.
Would suck to see him go since he had a terrific two way game this year. I Know people rather keep zibby cause he's the "sexier" player. I guess gonna be a tough call for JG to figure it out.
 

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
Would suck to see him go since he had a terrific two way game this year. I Know people rather keep zibby cause he's the "sexier" player. I guess gonna be a tough call for JG to figure it out.
I think people would rather keep Zibby simply because of contract and point production. Hayes will cost just as much and won't produce the same #'s.
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,229
22,258
I think people would rather keep Zibby simply because of contract and point production. Hayes will cost just as much and won't produce the same #'s.
Understood but would like to see what Hayes would have put up if he got first pp minutes and played with two of our best wingers. Plus seems like he got a lot of tough opposition matchups this year
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,993
16,745
Jacksonville, FL
Assuming they all sign relatively similar deals... who has the most trade value out of: Hayes, Namestnikov, Spooner?

If I were Edmonton, I would love to get my hands on Namestnikov. Stick him with McDavid after you sign him to a 5 years deal at a reasonable cap hit.

Hayes for Montreal would be a nice get for that team.

I think it just depends on team needs.
 

Rangers in 7

Registered User
Dec 17, 2015
5,692
5,618
Long Island
Not sure moving the young guys (Lias, filip, Howden) to wing is good thing. They all have been progressing well at center and Howden prefers the center position. Gonna be interesting to see which one of the "vet" three get traded. Hayes? Zibby ? or Namestnikov? Definitely not a bad thing to be super deep down the middle. Much better than being very poor at center . pretty much the kiss of death.
namestnikov can move to the wing
 

RGY

Kreid or Die
Jul 18, 2005
24,713
13,940
Long Island, NY
Looking at general depth for next year the Rangers appear to have:

Center:
Zibanejad
Hayes
(Spooner)
(Namestnikov)
Nieves
Holland
Andersson
Chytil


LW:
Kreider
Vesey
Spooner
Namestnikov
(Andersson)
(Beleskey)


RW:
Zuccarello
Buchnevich
Lettieri
Fast
Beleskey



LD:
Skjei
Staal
Gilmour
O'Gara
Smith?

RD:
Shattenkirk
ADA
Pionk
Kampfer


That would leave something like:

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello
Spooner-Chytil/Spooner-Lettieri
Vesey-Nieves/Holland-Fast
Nieves/Holland
Beleskey?

Skjei-Pionk
Staal-ADA
Gilmour-Shattenkirk
O'Gara-Kampfer

Hank
Georgiev

So theoretically, all of these guys like Kovalchuk, Nash, Grabner, ROUSSEL, etc. Where are those guys playing? If we start hearing the Rangers are going to be active in UFA, guys will need to be shipped out or demoted.
There are spots available.

I dont see any reason to rush Chytil. Also dont see Holland being with this team. Lettieri is not a make or break player for me. His ceiling is 4th line NHLer imo. He wouldnt have been called up this year had we not sustained so many injuries and also had better depth than Carey, Holland, McLeod, etc.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Kovalchuk-Nam-Nash
Spooner-Hayes-Zucc
Vesey-Andersson-Fast
Nieves (LW/C)
 

Holocene

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
11,542
1,219
Toms River, NJ
I really can't see Gorton trading away McDonagh because his prime years are behind him and he's going to cost upwards of 8m, and then turning around and spending even more on the JT's and EK's. I also think JT wouldn't cut ties with the Isles and then come over to the rebuilding Rangers. He doesn't seem like that kind of guy AND he would have just left the Isles because they're not a playoff team. Let's just deal with our rebuild first before committing 10-14m on someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NYRFANMANI and jas

LaffyTaffy

Brooklyn-Belarussian
Feb 1, 2016
2,893
1,949
Brooklyn, NY
I really can't see Gorton trading away McDonagh because his prime years are behind him and he's going to cost upwards of 8m, and then turning around and spending even more on the JT's and EK's. I also think JT wouldn't cut ties with the Isles and then come over to the rebuilding Rangers. He doesn't seem like that kind of guy AND he would have just left the Isles because they're not a playoff team. Let's just deal with our rebuild first before committing 10-14m on someone.
JT would complete our rebuild and we would be competing again so realistically I don't think that would be his reasoning not to come. Its his loyalty to the isles that would prevent him signing here.
 

Holocene

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
11,542
1,219
Toms River, NJ
JT would complete our rebuild and we would be competing again so realistically I don't think that would be his reasoning not to come. Its his loyalty to the isles that would prevent him signing here.
I'd rather not acquire "the guys" through FA. It's really never worked out like we hoped. If we're paying guys money like that I'd like them to be our players that we drafted and developed that aren't coming here for their last big paycheck. Complimentary players? Sure, stack up on FAs.
 

mas0764

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
13,827
11,182
I think trading Shattenkirk would be a bad move. What does that say when you trade a guy a year after signing who by all accounts took a discount to be here and really wants to be here?

Agreed, Shattenkirk is going nowhere. He wants to be a Ranger. He gave a discount to be a Ranger. I'm sure he also wants to compete for a Cup and not be a bottom feeder, but I would be shocked -- SHOCKED -- if this team spent any more than one additional season out of the playoffs. They have this year's draft haul. All the prospects they just acquired. More assets to come from Zucc and maybe a few other moves. If they miss the playoffs again next year they will then another top 12-ish pick.

By the following year, Andersson, Chytil, Howden, this year's top 7 pick, all the defensive prospects they have, will all be in the league. Supplementing an existing core of Zib, Kreider, Buch, Hayes, Vesey, Skjei, Shattenkirk and DeAngelo. Plus they are either gonna break the bank on an impact FA or two, or they will re-sign guys like Nash and Grabner at least.

This team will be right back at the top of the conference. One more down season is all that they have, this is not a 4 more seasons of rebuilding situation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad