Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Mikos87]

Almost positive that a fired coach gets paid by the firing team until such time that he gets a new HC gig

Torts getting the CLB job releases the Canucks in full of any further financial obligations

I think there was partial relief for the Canucks but not all. They changed the rule immediately after Torts was hired in CLB since it was an ass backwards approach.

 

[GAGLine]

Just a quick question.

Next season how many players on the NYR roster will be on ELCs?

Just wanted to get people opinion on this.

It's hard to say at this point. Do we draft someone in the 1st round who is ready to play immediately? Which free agents do we sign? What trades do we make? Will both Spooner and Namestnikov still be here? What about Zucc? What players are we getting back in trade? Does Smith earn his spot back?

Right now, we've got the following players on ELCs:

Buchnevich
Vesey
O'Gara
Skjei
Pionk
DeAngelo
Gilmour
Georgiev

Of those 8, only 4 will still be on ELCs next year: Buch, Pionk, DeAngelo and Georgiev. Buch is a given to be on the team next year. Pionk and Georgiev are both making good cases for themselves and ADA certainly has a shot. Gorton may opt to bring in a more experienced backup and let Georgiev get a lot more games in the AHL. It may come down to Pionk or ADA and Pionk has the edge right now.

I think Lettieri has a decent chance of making the team next year. Chytil and Andersson both have more than a decent chance. Beyond them, who knows. None of Hajek, Lindgren, Howden or Ronning have much experience, if any, at at the pro level. They may all need time in Hartford.

My guess is that we are going to obtain at least 1 ELC player (either via trade or by drafting him) that will be able to play immediately. I think Zucc and one of Spooner/Namestnikov will be gone. I think Chytil, Andersson and Pionk will all make the team. So I'd say the ELCs for next year will look something like this:

Buch
Chytil
Andersson
Pionk
One of ADA, Lettieri, Howden, Lindgren, Hajek
Player obtained in offseason

 

[NYR Viper]

In order for the Rangers to have the cap space to sign a guy like Karlsson, they’re going to need to decide between Hayes, Spooner, Namestnikov. I’m assuming Skjei stays. Kreider is another one. They can’t sign all of these guys AND sign the needed UFA’s. Shattenkirk to me should also be considered if they’re serious about Karlsson.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

In order for the Rangers to have the cap space to sign a guy like Karlsson, they’re going to need to decide between Hayes, Spooner, Namestnikov. I’m assuming Skjei stays. Kreider is another one. They can’t sign all of these guys AND sign the needed UFA’s. Shattenkirk to me should also be considered if they’re serious about Karlsson.

There was an article posted the other day that the cap could be anywhere from 78-82MM next season. Cap would likely go up further the following summer when EK would be a UFA. With the young players likely coming through the Rangers would likely be able to bring back everyone.

Guess it really depends what the salary cap max would be next summer.

 

[Siddi]

I see your point. The team gambles either way. If they trade now for him they will lose assests(Ottawa will want a kings ransome for him) and the Rangers will have to commit to a large long term deal.
If you wait you risk him signing with the team he is traded to.
Me, I would take a chance and wait.
What Gorton is willing or is able to do is anyone’s guess.

Ottawa is in no position to ask for anything really. Dorions window closed with the trade deadline. Ottawa will have to accept whatever Karlssons team of choosing are willing to give up.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Buyer beware on Karlsson too. More than a few issues with the feet and ankles over the years. He's looked off this whole season and that goes back to injuries. Get him this summer and you are emptying the cupboard. You'd be obligated to offer 8 years with an obscene dollar amount. He'll still be good but he won't take over games when his wheels fail him.

If you wait for him to be UFA, that's another year older and you have to outbid the open market.

And just consider this: we say he'll want to come play with Henrik. Vice versa. Igor will be over that same year. Do we really want to entice Lundqvist to put off retirement? If he's 37/38, the team is up and down, he's thinking of his legacy. Maybe just let him hang it up instead of taking 2 or 3 more runs with his buddies.

 

[iamitter]

Hence my proposal

Fox, bennett, 2nd for zucc and a late 1st

They don't have a 2nd.

 

[iamitter]

Buyer beware on Karlsson too. More than a few issues with the feet and ankles over the years. He's looked off this whole season and that goes back to injuries. Get him this summer and you are emptying the cupboard. You'd be obligated to offer 8 years with an obscene dollar amount. He'll still be good but he won't take over games when his wheels fail him.

If you wait for him to be UFA, that's another year older and you have to outbid the open market.

And just consider this: we say he'll want to come play with Henrik. Vice versa. Igor will be over that same year. Do we really want to entice Lundqvist to put off retirement? If he's 37/38, the team is up and down, he's thinking of his legacy. Maybe just let him hang it up instead of taking 2 or 3 more runs with his buddies.

He's looked off, is on a garbage team and still has 56 points in 66 games.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Karlsson would still be a top 5 defenseman if you cut his feet off

Not really worried about injuries with him

 

[kovazub94]

Buyer beware on Karlsson too. More than a few issues with the feet and ankles over the years. He's looked off this whole season and that goes back to injuries. Get him this summer and you are emptying the cupboard. You'd be obligated to offer 8 years with an obscene dollar amount. He'll still be good but he won't take over games when his wheels fail him.

If you wait for him to be UFA, that's another year older and you have to outbid the open market.

And just consider this: we say he'll want to come play with Henrik. Vice versa. Igor will be over that same year. Do we really want to entice Lundqvist to put off retirement? If he's 37/38, the team is up and down, he's thinking of his legacy. Maybe just let him hang it up instead of taking 2 or 3 more runs with his buddies.

Good point about wait-and-see approach re. Karlsson. Skeptical there will be an issue concerning Lundqvist. If he’s down to stay through rebuild he’d be fine sharing goaltending duty with his successor when the time comes.

 

[DutchShamrock]

He's looked off, is on a garbage team and still has 56 points in 66 games.

So you don't think there's a chance his injuries make an 8 year, $80-88m contract a problem? He can limp his way to 56 points at 27, can he do it at 30, 32 or 35 after the injuries continue to pile up? Enough to justify his mega contract?

And I don't give superstars a pass for being on garbage teams. If you are that elite, your team doesn't finish bottom 3. If they can't drag their team up, they aren't worth $10m plus.

McDonagh was a must trade player because of injuries and a pending contract. We needed to rebuild and get away from chasing free agents because their returns diminish quickly after the ink dries. New day, new philosophy I guess.

 

[RGY]

Barron had a good last shift there.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So you don't think there's a chance his injuries make an 8 year, $80-88m contract a problem? He can limp his way to 56 points at 27, can he do it at 30, 32 or 35 after the injuries continue to pile up? Enough to justify his mega contract?

And I don't give superstars a pass for being on garbage teams. If you are that elite, your team doesn't finish bottom 3. If they can't drag their team up, they aren't worth $10m plus.

McDonagh was a must trade player because of injuries and a pending contract. We needed to rebuild and get away from chasing free agents because their returns diminish quickly after the ink dries. New day, new philosophy I guess.

I think the senators rushed him back from his crazy ankle surgery this year and he never really got into the Karlsson groove because of it, he’s going to have a full offseason to train and be healthy and I think he’ll be right back up to where he was.

 

[kovazub94]

Barron had a good last shift there.

Rookie on the ice with less than a minute to play with net empty. Made a play to give Cornell opportunity to work on a play to tie.

Cornell lost.

 

[iamitter]

So you don't think there's a chance his injuries make an 8 year, $80-88m contract a problem? He can limp his way to 56 points at 27, can he do it at 30, 32 or 35 after the injuries continue to pile up? Enough to justify his mega contract?

And I don't give superstars a pass for being on garbage teams. If you are that elite, your team doesn't finish bottom 3. If they can't drag their team up, they aren't worth $10m plus.

McDonagh was a must trade player because of injuries and a pending contract. We needed to rebuild and get away from chasing free agents because their returns diminish quickly after the ink dries. New day, new philosophy I guess.

I'm not advocating for trading for him. But I wouldn't mind at all giving him a 10 mil contract for 7 years when he hits FA. I think we'll be a bubble team without him then. With him? Who knows. I would prefer going all in while our young guns will be on their ELCs. By the time they need new contracts, Shattenkirk's will be up. Staal's will be up.

I would also hunt after Doughty if Karlsson isn't available, but I would prefer Karlsson.

That said, if we are an absolute dumpster fire next year and finish bottom 5, then no, I wouldn't advocate for it. If we finish close to a bubble team, though? Why not?

 

[DutchShamrock]

I'm not advocating for trading for him. But I wouldn't mind at all giving him a 10 mil contract for 7 years when he hits FA. I think we'll be a bubble team without him then. With him? Who knows. I would prefer going all in while our young guns will be on their ELCs. By the time they need new contracts, Shattenkirk's will be up. Staal's will be up.

I would also hunt after Doughty if Karlsson isn't available, but I would prefer Karlsson.

That said, if we are an absolute dumpster fire next year and finish bottom 5, then no, I wouldn't advocate for it. If we finish close to a bubble team, though? Why not?

I'm going the other way. I avoid doughty, oel and karlsson at those numbers. Shea Webber is hitting a wall at 32 so it's scary. Doughty is the most rough and tumble of that crew.

We've had a front row seat of the UFA show. They never live up. I don't know if it's the mercenary vibe, the contract in hand or just the fit not being there. But we know it doesn't work. No one wins with a free agent core.

 

[GAGLine]

I'm going the other way. I avoid doughty, oel and karlsson at those numbers. Shea Webber is hitting a wall at 32 so it's scary. Doughty is the most rough and tumble of that crew.

We've had a front row seat of the UFA show. They never live up. I don't know if it's the mercenary vibe, the contract in hand or just the fit not being there. But we know it doesn't work. No one wins with a free agent core.

Totally agree. I've said it before, but if we are looking to find our best players through free agency, the rebuild has failed. Free agency should be used to supplement the roster, not to build the team's core.

 

[effen]

im not remotely afraid of UFAs and the decline, but it's really the wrong point int he rebuild to add big ones now. 2 years from now, and especially 3, yes, when Smith and Staal come off.

Feet and ankle injuries, other than Steph Curry, never get better across sports. Stay far, far away from Karlsson

 

[darko]

Totally agree. I've said it before, but if we are looking to find our best players through free agency, the rebuild has failed. Free agency should be used to supplement the roster, not to build the team's core.

Agree 100%

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Ottawa is in no position to ask for anything really. Dorions window closed with the trade deadline. Ottawa will have to accept whatever Karlssons team of choosing are willing to give up.

I am not following. Karlsson still has one more year at 6.5 million. I would think Ottawa is in the drivers seat. Unless I am ignorant on some point, I would think contending teams will make offers. He has been a generational talent.

 

[Mikos87]

When it comes to older talent... Age isn't just the unilateral factor teams look at.

It's not a simplified dumbed down question they ask.

The question they ask... Is... Can his legs keep up?

Will the skating legs keep up.

On my travels I frequent an establishment owned by an NHL owner and over the last three months I've met a bunch of guys working in hockey. There's a discrepancy between what some of you guys think and repeat versus what they look at.

 

[Mikos87]

Ill take it a step further, they have an "advanced statistic" that measures both the situational and conversions.

It's a similar metric to what the Golden State Warriors use with their star players. This proprietary stat revolves around one key player for this team.

They know that if they get him X amount of shots (or attempts) from a particular spot on the ice in a set situation... That said player scores X amount of times.

Guy is a consistent 30+ goal scorer... And his team runs set plays to get him that situational shot.

Said player is a guy I'd step up for any day of the week.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Trying to think of the teams that would have the cap to take a Ryan-Karlsson package, maybe Vancouver with the Sedins leaving? They're a joke now but I really like their young players and prospects

 

[Siddi]

I am not following. Karlsson still has one more year at 6.5 million. I would think Ottawa is in the drivers seat. Unless I am ignorant on some point, I would think contending teams will make offers. He has been a generational talent.

Sure, alot of teams would want him but I doubt any sane GM is willing to give up any significant assets unless they are certain that he will re-sign with them. Dorion has to accept whatever pieces are offered to him from the team EK sees as his future home unless he is willing to let him go for free the year after.

 

[DutchShamrock]

When it comes to older talent... Age isn't just the unilateral factor teams look at.

It's not a simplified dumbed down question they ask.

The question they ask... Is... Can his legs keep up?

Will the skating legs keep up.

On my travels I frequent an establishment owned by an NHL owner and over the last three months I've met a bunch of guys working in hockey. There's a discrepancy between what some of you guys think and repeat versus what they look at.

I'm not an extreme "youth movement" guy. I don't think the players have an expiration date like milk. But we need to have some consistency that lasts more than a month.

McDonagh is a year away from ufa and has been accumulating injuries. Karlsson is a year away from ufa and has been accumulating injuries. We traded a captain because the salary potential was scary in the face of a breaking down body.

I sure as hell hope the front office isn't as bipolar as the fans. It's time to build a team in the true sense of the word. Not change directions as the wind blows.