Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[iamitter]

OTT is not sending their 1st away. They already have to give up their 1st next year & they're a rebuilding team. It makes no sense.

Would you guys give away our 12th overall (or so) for someone to take Staal?

 

[GregSirico]

OTT is not sending their 1st away. They already have to give up their 1st next year & they're a rebuilding team. It makes no sense.

Would you guys give away our 12th overall (or so) for someone to take Staal?

Nope but we also aren't cash strapped like Ottawa. Big difference.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If Ottawa drafts at 4 and say for whatever reason Zadina or Boqvist drop there, you should really consider if 3.6M is worth having those guys in your fold for the next decade. It's being extremely short sighted in the bigger picture. Eventually Hank, Shatty, and Staals money will be gone in 3Y and so will Ryan's. That is essentially $25M. Even if you're only looking at next year, DD (1M), McLeod (800K), Pavelec (1,3M) and Carey (600K), that's your Ryan money.

You're also making the assumption that Ottawa is willing to move that pick, which most likely they are not.

They also probably can't move that pick. It would be Colorado's pick if not for the fact that it's lottery protected. There has to be some sort of rule on that saying you cannot trade the pick again when it's already been traded.

I get the sentiment of taking garbage for picks, but I don't see that being in Gorton's plans. Beleskey was a special case. I don't think it will become a thing

 

[haveandare]

If, if we also take on Clarke MacArthur’s LTIR (3yrs at 4.625), does anybody here think that Melnyk will Let the 5OA get in his way of obtaining approx 28-29 mil ???

Not sure, but I seriously doubt NYR is going to lose 30 million dollars to get a draft pick

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You can have any opinion you want of him,but when you put him in your top 6 and get questioned on it because you claim others suck and dont deserve their own chance,dont act surprised.

I didn't claim others don't deserve their own chance.

 

[Waivers]

OTT is not sending their 1st away. They already have to give up their 1st next year & they're a rebuilding team. It makes no sense.

Would you guys give away our 12th overall (or so) for someone to take Staal?

Not the same scenario as Greg already elaborated on. Plus the Rangers have NO defenseman. Staal is not blocking anyone in the pipeline who outright deserves a spot. Plus he actually played decent this year comparing prior years. There is no need to ship out this type of an asset immediately when the defense is already pretty terrible.

 

[Tawnos]

OTT is not sending their 1st away. They already have to give up their 1st next year & they're a rebuilding team. It makes no sense.

Would you guys give away our 12th overall (or so) for someone to take Staal?

You’re talking as if hockey assets is the only thing driving decisions in Ottawa right now, like would be the case with your proposed Staal trade there.

There’s an owner there who wants to have as small of a payroll as possible. You might get lucky with that pressure.

It makes no sense from a hockey point of view, but plenty of sense from a financial point of view in terms of real $.

 

[Gardner McKay]

You're also making the assumption that Ottawa is willing to move that pick, which most likely they are not.

They also probably can't move that pick. It would be Colorado's pick if not for the fact that it's lottery protected. There has to be some sort of rule on that saying you cannot trade the pick again when it's already been traded.

I get the sentiment of taking garbage for picks, but I don't see that being in Gorton's plans. Beleskey was a special case. I don't think it will become a thing

If its lottery protected that means it is Ottawa's pick, not Colorado's pick. I believe they are free to do what they want with it if it is in the top 3.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Not sure, but I seriously doubt NYR is going to lose 30 million dollars to get a draft pick

Why? They let 6.5M a year sit in the minors for cap space so they could spend more money.

 

[haveandare]

Why? They let 6.5M a year sit in the minors for cap space so they could spend more money.

Which contract are you referring to specifically? Redden I think? I don't remember everyone's exact numbers.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Which contract are you referring to specifically? Redden I think? I don't remember everyone's exact numbers.

Yes, Redden.

I don't think NYR cares about how much money they spend if they feel they can make a great trade.

 

[GregSirico]

Not the same scenario as Greg already elaborated on. Plus the Rangers have NO defenseman. Staal is not blocking anyone in the pipeline who outright deserves a spot. Plus he actually played decent this year comparing prior years. There is no need to ship out this type of an asset immediately when the defense is already pretty terrible.

I think he was just looking at the dollars of it. Fact is, the Rangers have a strength (financial power) and they should exploit it if there's a trade that is beneficial. And don't be that quick to discount Ottawa trading their pick for cap relief. This is a team that is desperate for money.

Eugene Melnyk needs to go

Despite his estimated $1.5-billion net worth when he bought the Sens, Melnyk still decided to do nearly half the purchase in debt. He has had to routinely refinance and restructure his debt. He’s had to keep getting extensions on his debt repayment. He reportedly got very upset at Scotiabank over how they were handling his debt, tore up their arena naming agreement (selling the rights to Canadian Tire), and tried to remove their presence completely from the arena before Bettman forced him to not alienate the exclusive Canadian bank sponsor of the NHL.

 

[haveandare]

Yes, Redden.

I don't think NYR cares about how much money they spend if they feel they can make a great trade.

I think there's a limit to that though. Putting 6.5 in the minors because you signed a vet you thought would contribute in a major way and now can't get out of that deal is one thing - throwing away 30M for a draft pick is very, very different imo.

 

[Ghost of jas]

You’re talking as if hockey assets is the only thing driving decisions in Ottawa right now, like would be the case with your proposed Staal trade there.

There’s an owner there who wants to have as small of a payroll as possible. You might get lucky with that pressure.

It makes no sense from a hockey point of view, but plenty of sense from a financial point of view in terms of real $.

In addition, he was trying to attach Ryan’s contract to a Karlsson at the risk of getting less back in a deal.

 

[Avery16]

Beleskey has 5 points in 9 games. He should be in line for a call up.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm a little surprised they haven't at least given him a shot at 4th line duties.

 

[GAGLine]

I think there's a limit to that though. Putting 6.5 in the minors because you signed a vet you thought would contribute in a major way and now can't get out of that deal is one thing - throwing away 30M for a draft pick is very, very different imo.

They bought out Richards and got back nothing but cap space. That cost them over 20 mil.

Rangers buy out Brad Richards' contract to free up salary cap space

Richards made $31.3 million in three seasons with the Rangers, including $11.3 million in salary and $20 million in signing bonus money. Now the team will pay him $20.66 million more over the next 12 years in the buyout - $12,660,000 in 12 separate, annual installments, and $8 million in remaining signing bonus cash.

The Rangers spent nearly as much on payroll in 2003-04 as they will this year:

List of team payrolls in the NHL - Wikipedia

And the team's worth has gone up significantly since then:

NHL

Current value:

From 272 million to 1.5 billion in 14 years.

 

[bl02]

Beleskey has 5 points in 9 games. He should be in line for a call up.

Totally forgot about him lol. Possibly another guy we may have to find a way to bury in the AHL/press box. Hopefully Smith and him get their act together and make one more push this offseason to save their nhl career.
So potentially if we take on Ryan it could be Ryan, Beleskey, Staal (not likely I guess) and Smith we would be paying and not contributing at the nhl level.

 

[iamitter]

You’re talking as if hockey assets is the only thing driving decisions in Ottawa right now, like would be the case with your proposed Staal trade there.

There’s an owner there who wants to have as small of a payroll as possible. You might get lucky with that pressure.

It makes no sense from a hockey point of view, but plenty of sense from a financial point of view in terms of real $.

In general, I would agree there's at least a chance. Having said that, he would get run out of town if a team destined to be bottom of the barrel wouldn't have a top pick for 2 years because of money reasons. He still wants to earn money through sold tickets.

We already know he wants to get rid of Ryan in a deal involving Karlsson, not a potential replacement for him.

 

[haveandare]

They bought out Richards and got back nothing but cap space. That cost them over 20 mil.

Rangers buy out Brad Richards' contract to free up salary cap space



The Rangers spent nearly as much on payroll in 2003-04 as they will this year:

List of team payrolls in the NHL - Wikipedia

View attachment 105833

And the team's worth has gone up significantly since then:

NHL

View attachment 105835

Current value:

View attachment 105837

From 272 million to 1.5 billion in 14 years.

Yeah but they only even had Richards' contract in the first place because they signed him to be a first line center, which he kind of was, and to help the playoff push(es), which he kind of did.

There's a world of difference between spending money on a buyout for a player you signed to play 1C based on a proven career of that type of play and spending even more money than that for a draft pick which is in no way proven at all.

It's pretty hypothetical so either of us could be right, but I'd be very surprised if the organization was ok with shelling out 30 million dollars for a draft pick. The fact that they spend 2/3 of that buying out Richards doesn't really change my mind on that, because as I said they took that deal in the first place because he was a proven commodity at a position they desperately needed in a time when they were really trying to win asap.

 

[TheTakedown]

If, if we also take on Clarke MacArthur’s LTIR (3yrs at 4.625), does anybody here think that Melnyk will Let the 5OA get in his way of obtaining approx 28-29 mil ???

Depends on whether or not that contract is being paid out by insurance. If the sens are paying it, the Rangers absolutely could get OTT's top 10 pick by tkaing on that contract and swapping their first rounder

 

[TheTakedown]

You're also making the assumption that Ottawa is willing to move that pick, which most likely they are not.

They also probably can't move that pick. It would be Colorado's pick if not for the fact that it's lottery protected. There has to be some sort of rule on that saying you cannot trade the pick again when it's already been traded.

I get the sentiment of taking garbage for picks, but I don't see that being in Gorton's plans. Beleskey was a special case. I don't think it will become a thing

If its lottery protected that means it is Ottawa's pick, not Colorado's pick. I believe they are free to do what they want with it if it is in the top 3.

The pick is not lottery protected. It is *TOP 10* protected...

NHL Entry Draft Picks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[mouser]

Think Gusev can sign with any team he wants next offseason

His birthday is July 8th, so he should be a UFA next offseason shortly after Free Agency Frenzy

Nope. Because there is no transfer agreement between the NHL and Russia any players drafted from Russia are treated as "Defected Players" [CBA 10.2(b)]. Drafting teams hold their rights indefinitely--they' don't automatically become UFA's at age 27.

And as an addendum, so far as I understand if Vegas signed him this summer or next summer he would be on a 1 year ELC. If signed in 2020 or later then he's not subject to the ELC system.

2018: 1 year ELC, then RFA
2019: 1 year ELC, then UFA
2020: out of the ELC system, can sign any legal contract

 

[Avery16]

Get ready

 

[Ola]

How do we suck next year? Should we go for the absolute top picks? I wonder what Gorts would get if he put Ziba and Kreiders names out there.

A let’s really tank next year scenario:

2018:
Kreider, Zibanejad, Skjei and Tampa’s 1st for Mittlestad, Nylander and Buff’s 1st unprotected (they are 30th overall currently)

Zucc, Vesey and TDA for Puljujärvi

Trade Spooner at the draft with Boston’s 1st to move up.

Draft Svenchnikov with Buffalos 1st and Tkachuk with our 1st.

18’ team:
Mittlestad-Hayes-Svechnikov
Tkachuk-Chytil-Buch
Names-Alex Nyls-Puljujärvi
Howden-Lias-Fast
Staal-Pionk
Gilmour-Shatty
Hajak-UDFA
Hank

We would surely get top 5 odds in the 19’ draft. A boatload or cap space that summer and a really young and exciting team. Maybe that is something Gorton should try? Really trade “everyone”?

Haha I have to say, that team would be fun to watch. A trade like that with Buffalo of course almost never happen, but if they wherent loving anyone in that top range extremely much I don’t think the value is horrible.

I know it seems like a bunch of random names in a lineup — but I really love some of the chemistry on those lines.