Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

Status
Not open for further replies.

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
Again though, with 4 years left that means they're down the cap space from Ryan, Staal, Smith and G's buyout for the next 3 years. That's a lot of money all added up. A real lot. And Ryan might not be completely done now, but I'd bet he'll be cooked before the end of this deal. In 2 or 3 years is the team going to be okay with all that dead cap space? I really doubt it, especially if they come close to turning this thing around in the next few years.
a 2/3Y rebuild is not very long. Just go ask the Edmonton Oilers, Toronto Maple Leafs, and the NY Islanders. If you're going in a youth movement and your goal is get younger and cost controlled, then using your financial strength to absorb a bad deal at 50% for 3Y for a top 5 draft pick is not an awful idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wafflepadsave

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,889
7,398
New York
a 2/3Y rebuild is not very long. Just go ask the Edmonton Oilers, Toronto Maple Leafs, and the NY Islanders. If you're going in a youth movement and your goal is get younger and cost controlled, then using your financial strength to absorb a bad deal at 50% for 3Y for a top 5 draft pick is not an awful idea.
3 years from now, safe bet Ryan isn't even an NHL player. By then, odds are we'll be paying Ryan, Staal, Smith and Girardi to not play in the NHL anymore. That's a ton of cap space going completely to waste. I'd be very, very surprised if Gorton were comfortable with that.

The word is they want to be competing again in 3 years time. Gonna be real hard to compete with ELCs ending and millions and millions of cap space tied up in nothing at all.

Also, Imo if you're getting Ottawa to give you a pick like 5OA, you're taking 100% of Ryan's contract.
 

Lindberg Cheese

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
7,229
4,693
Cambodia
The only Q I have is what return will the Rangers have to add to make this palatable to Ottawa.

Our late first? Our second? A roster player (RFA)? A prospect? Remember they are trying to be fiscal here so sending say Zucc is probably not what they want.
If, if we also take on Clarke MacArthur’s LTIR (3yrs at 4.625), does anybody here think that Melnyk will Let the 5OA get in his way of obtaining approx 28-29 mil ???
 
  • Like
Reactions: GregSirico

Avery16

Shake my hand, fatso
Jun 28, 2015
12,908
8,666
Brooklyn
He isn't getting a bye at all, hence why he is still in Hartford despite all of the defensive callups. He won't be getting a bye next year either. He'll have to earn his spot just like everyone else. Given that he has been an NHL dman until this year, the odds of him becoming one again are higher than Beargloves becoming one for the first time.

You seem to be of the opinion that we should just keep him in the AHL for the next 3 years as punishment. It isn't so much about giving him a 2nd chance as it is about rebuilding his value. No one is trading for him right now. He has to show he can be an NHL dman again and then maybe we can unload him somewhere. Sticking him in the AHL for 3 years isn't going to help us unless he refuses to report and we terminate his contract, but why would he do that and give up 12.4 mil? If he sucks in camp, he'll be demoted. If he gets his head out of his ass, he'll make the team and maybe next summer we can trade him.
Getting a bye on here, I mean.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,230
23,101
New York
Why? Why can you use stats to support Buch, but don’t use the same stats to support ADA when they show similar results? Don’t use stats only when it supports your biases.

Is DeAngelo in the NHL to score points or to accumulate a good corsi?

Your bait is weak, Buchnevich scores points, his advanced stats are a secondary consideration. Comparing them is a joke. One produces, the other doesn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobSantos

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
3 years from now, safe bet Ryan isn't even an NHL player. By then, odds are we'll be paying Ryan, Staal, Smith and Girardi to not play in the NHL anymore. That's a ton of cap space going completely to waste. I'd be very, very surprised if Gorton were comfortable with that.

The word is they want to be competing again in 3 years time. Gonna be real hard to compete with ELCs ending and millions and millions of cap space tied up in nothing at all.

Also, Imo if you're getting Ottawa to give you a pick like 5OA, you're taking 100% of Ryan's contract.
Nobody is taking Ryan at full value, NOBODY. At 50% a few teams might bite.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,889
7,398
New York
Nobody is taking Ryan at full value, NOBODY. At 50% a few teams might bite.
Then I really don't see Ottawa packaging that type of pick to move him. I know they're cheap, but I really doubt they're that cheap. The fans would revolt if they moved a top 5 pick to get rid of half of Ryan's contract.
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,906
16,622
Jacksonville, FL
I'd take Ryan's entire contract if the OTT 1st '18 was included. There would need to be more involved, but if the Rangers could send Staal back I wouldn't consider that as big of a deal. His contract is bad. He deserves ~$4.5m, same as Nash. But if you can add a couple of young assets I'd consider it.

For example:

Ryan + Pageau + OTT 1st '18
for
Staal + NYR 2nd '18
 

Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
22,580
12,822
Is DeAngelo in the NHL to score points or to accumulate a good corsi?

Your bait is weak, Buchnevich scores points, his advanced stats are a secondary consideration. Comparing them is a joke. One produces, the other doesn't.
It’s not bait, they’re objective measures, and I’m not comparing Buch and ADA. I’m asking why you can use Buch’s shot attempts as a positive for him, but won’t use them for ADA.

And the answer to your question is both. But please explain to me how ADA having the best or second best zone exit/entry stats, shot assists, possession stats, and relxGF% on our team means he sucks. And we’ve been over his points. He’s had a revolving door of partners and never got consistent powerplay time. 6/8 points are primary and he didn’t score a goal all season. If you think that he’ll continue to shoot 0%, get the worst on-ice save%, and inconsistent partners/pp time, then fine. I don’t buy any of that.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,230
23,101
New York
It’s not bait, they’re objective measures, and I’m not comparing Buch and ADA. I’m asking why you can use Buch’s shot attempts as a positive for him, but won’t use them for ADA.

And the answer to your question is both. But please explain to me how ADA having the best or second best zone exit/entry stats, shot assists, possession stats, and relxGF% on our team means he sucks. And we’ve been over his points. He’s had a revolving door of partners and never got consistent powerplay time. 6/8 points are primary and he didn’t score a goal all season. If you think that he’ll continue to shoot 0%, get the worst on-ice save%, and inconsistent partners/pp time, then fine. I don’t buy any of that.

Its a positive for DeAngelo, just like it was for Clendening, but if that doesn't come with points or good defense, I'm not sure it matters.

DeAngelo might have some bad luck, if you go by the advanced stats, but going by the eye-test, he really doesn't make that many great offensive plays, so if he's getting unlucky, I'm just not seeing it. I don't see it with the eye test or with the point column.
 

Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
22,580
12,822
Its a positive for DeAngelo, just like it was for Clendening, but if that doesn't come with points or good defense, I'm not sure it matters.

DeAngelo might have some bad luck, if you go by the advanced stats, but going by the eye-test, he really doesn't make that many great offensive plays, so if he's getting unlucky, I'm just not seeing it. I don't see it with the eye test or with the point column.
That’s going by your eye test. Plenty of others on here, including myself, would disagree with you. Ask @Inferno for instance
 

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
I'd take Ryan's entire contract if the OTT 1st '18 was included. There would need to be more involved, but if the Rangers could send Staal back I wouldn't consider that as big of a deal. His contract is bad. He deserves ~$4.5m, same as Nash. But if you can add a couple of young assets I'd consider it.

For example:

Ryan + Pageau + OTT 1st '18
for
Staal + NYR 2nd '18
Why would Staal waive?
 

mrmovies779

The Greatest Teacher,Failure is.
Feb 5, 2013
7,000
6,436
Thats exactly what you tried to do, but now its a problem?

I'm not sure we have 6 defensemen who deserve a spot. If we had better defensemen, I wouldn't want Staal or Smith in the lineup either, but when choosing between bad options, thats what I decided. I've seen enough of DeAngelo, he sucks. Gilmour isn't an NHL'er either, in my opinion.
Stop putting words in my mouth.Nowhere did i say he doesnt deserve a chance to make the team.Your moving the goal posts after you originally had him in your top 6.Dont try twisting my words.
 

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
Count me in the group that likes the way ADA plays and thinks he has been pretty good actually. He's a 3rd pairing defenseman right now but that's totally fine. He handles the puck like a 4th forward
When people say ADA sucks I have to seriously question if they just legitimately not like the kid and his antics. Sucks / garbage is a tough take after a 30 game sample. Heck, Gilmour has been worse and I'm not even writing him off yet.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,230
23,101
New York
Stop putting words in my mouth.Nowhere did i say he doesnt deserve a chance to make the team.Your moving the goal posts after you originally had him in your top 6.Dont try twisting my words.

Nothing to twist.

you want to add another in Bereglazov?

You should let me make up my own opinion of Bereglazov, and not tell me he's comparable to Staal, and then question why I would want him to be in the top 6 on the basis that I agree with your assessment.
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,906
16,622
Jacksonville, FL
O'Gara and Bereglazov seem to me to be on similar levels. Bigger guys who don't play an overly physical style, have good stocks, move well for big guys. I also don't think O'Gara has been as bad as many believe he has been but hey, to each their own
 

GregSirico

KakkoSZN
Jan 3, 2012
10,353
2,670
Atlanta
twitter.com
If Ottawa moves that much cap space and adds Smith and Staal (and they both rebound) they could be a playoff team next year. I am not 100% sure they trade Karlsson and either of those guys, when on their games, could be a nice complimentary partner for Karlsson
LOL That's not my Q. My Q is why would Staal waive his NTC to go to Ottawa?
 

mrmovies779

The Greatest Teacher,Failure is.
Feb 5, 2013
7,000
6,436
Nothing to twist.



You should let me make up my own opinion of Bereglazov, and not tell me he's comparable to Staal, and then question why I would want him to be in the top 6 on the basis that I agree with your assessment.
You can have any opinion you want of him,but when you put him in your top 6 and get questioned on it because you claim others suck and dont deserve their own chance,dont act surprised.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->