Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[LaffyTaffy]

I am on the Kovy boat. Just not down to give him a contract good enough to run away with like last time. I just don't see him signing for cheap.

 

[NYR Viper]

Bobby Ryan has 4 years left on his contract. Maybe it's semantics, but I consider that a long term deal. We may take on a bad contract, but I don't think it will be Ryan, Gaborik or Lucic unless maybe, maybe the other team is retaining. Even then, I doubt it.

I think someone like Orpik or Colin Wilson are more likely.

I agree on the shorter term deals being taken on. Paul Martin is another one.

I'd consider Ryan if the Sens paid enough to have the Rangers take him. Or they retained about $1.5m.

Basically the scenarios are too fluid to say yes or no either way.

 

[RangerBoy]

Lol. Haven't finished their inaugural season yet and you're here to blow them up.

Everyone is pointing to them as a quick turnaround. Let’s see how they do.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I’d give Bereglazov another look before I’d give Smith.

Not giving Smith a look is cutting your nose to spite your face.

You want to ice the best roster possible. If Smith comes into camp in shape and is ready to play, you give him the chance. Bereglazov should also get a look.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I agree on the shorter term deals being taken on. Paul Martin is another one.

I'd consider Ryan if the Sens paid enough to have the Rangers take him. Or they retained about $1.5m.

Basically the scenarios are too fluid to say yes or no either way.

Yeah based on some lineup projections with Smith and Staal on the roster and calling Zucc/Kovy a wash, with a cap of 78 we’ll have 8 mil in space. That’s huge. We’ll take on some contract for assets.

 

[AKA Chief]

Define great for me.



A big issue here with many of you guys is this exact mentality.

We’re a rebuilding team. We shouldn’t be looking to “acquire” a top pairing dmen. We need to focus on drafting that dmen.

And **** the entire idea of signing Benedict Kovalchuk. He wants to win a Cup. We’re going to miss the playoffs and have already taken the necessary steps to rebuild.

I would argue that the problematic mentality is not exploring all options. It's hard to win Stanley Cups without elite talent and whether you get that talent at the top of the draft (an option the Rangers won't likely have) or through free agency or trades doesn't matter. What matters is getting those players and surrounding them with enough talent to win. Boston's fortunes would have been very different without acquiring Chara, Anaheim without Pronger/Niedermayer.

If JT or Karlsson become available, the Rangers must explore those options. The cost may be prohibitive but all options must be explored.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Something is wrong if you're taking on contracts with 4 years left assuming you're still gonna be bad. We aren't Arizona.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Bobby Ryan has 4 years left on his contract. Maybe it's semantics, but I consider that a long term deal. We may take on a bad contract, but I don't think it will be Ryan, Gaborik or Lucic unless maybe, maybe the other team is retaining. Even then, I doubt it.

I think someone like Orpik or Colin Wilson are more likely.

Horton has 2 years left at $5.3m. Is that hit prohibitive enough for off season maneuvering for the leafs to pay up?

 

[bobbop]

Do you see Vegas winning the Cup in the near future? That’s the goal.

They have a puncher's chance because they have an excellent goaltender.The path is the west isn't as difficult as the east.

 

[GregSirico]

Bobby Ryan has 4 years left on his contract. Maybe it's semantics, but I consider that a long term deal. We may take on a bad contract, but I don't think it will be Ryan, Gaborik or Lucic unless maybe, maybe the other team is retaining. Even then, I doubt it.

I think someone like Orpik or Colin Wilson are more likely.

I think it's very realistic we can trade for Bobby Ryan @ 50% retained if that means we take on their first round pick. The only question is what would be the other enticing part Ottawa would ask for. Sure, us taking on 4Y of Ryan is nice for them, but for trading that 1st rounder they would have to sell SOMETHING to the fans.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Also, a question to ask is if there will be compliance buyouts with the next cba. That would make every bad contract a 2 year or less deal.

Bobby Ryan isn't useless, he's overpaid. Some really bad luck with hand injuries. He's a finesse player with constant injuries to his best asset. If he can stay healthy, he can round out to a 25-30 goal guy that is praised by teammates as a great lockerrom guy. He admits he isn't living up to the deal and doesn't blame management for shopping him. Doesn't strike me as an ego guy.

If he continues to trend down, his cap isn't killing a rebuild. Ottawa isn't going to pay a guy to not play via a buyout. What is his salary relief worth to them? They want to pair him in a karlsson trade. It might not even be a scenario Ottawa explores without karlsson.

 

[GregSirico]

Also, a question to ask is if there will be compliance buyouts with the next cba. That would make every bad contract a 2 year or less deal.

Bobby Ryan isn't useless, he's overpaid. So really bad luck with hand injuries. He's a finesse player with constant injuries to his best asset. If he can stay healthy, he can round out to a 25-30 goal guy that is praised by teammates as a great lockerrom guy. He admits he isn't living up to the deal and doesn't blame management for shopping him. Doesn't strike me as an ego guy.

If he continues to trend down, his cap isn't killing a rebuild. Ottawa isn't going to pay a guy to not play via a buyout. What is his salary relief worth to them? They want to pair him in a karlsson trade. It might not even be a scenario Ottawa explores without karlsson.

You have an owner that bitches about not being paid back for an Uber ride from their franchise player Erik Karlsson. Money is a SERIOUS issues there. They were willing to come down on the ask for EK if a team took Ryan.

 

[Edge]

Not giving Smith a look is cutting your nose to spite your face.

You want to ice the best roster possible. If Smith comes into camp in shape and is ready to play, you give him the chance. Bereglazov should also get a look.

It stands to reason that under a new coach, with clean slates, a lot of guys should be getting looks.

If Smith can get back to where he was, or close, he's an NHL-caliber defenseman.

As for Bereglazov, he needs to prove himself. I can't say there's been a whole lot to impress me from his time in North America. That's not something I hold against him, but it doesn't necessarily do him any favors either.

 

[NYR Viper]

Something is wrong if you're taking on contracts with 4 years left assuming you're still gonna be bad. We aren't Arizona.

Well that's the point though, it's all based on what the Rangers get for taking that and what they send in return.

Ryan has a cap hit of $7.25m for 4 more years.

Marc Staal has a $5.7m cap hit for 3 more years.

Brendan Smith has a $4.25m cap hit for 3 more years.

There are combinations of these players (possibly along with others) that could work for both teams DEPENDING on what else is included.

For Example:

Bobby Ryan + Alex Burrows for Marc Staal + Brendan Smith

Cap Hits
Year 1
7.25m cap + $2.5m cap = $5.7m cap + $4.25m cap
9.75m cap = $9.95m cap

Year 2
$7.25m cap = $9.95m cap

Year 3
$7.25m cap = $9.95m cap

Year 4
$7.25m cap = $0 cap


Real $$
Year 1
$7.5m + $2.5m = $6m + $4.525m
$10m = $10.525m

Year 2
$7.5m = $5m + $4.525m
$7.5m = $9.525m

Year 3
$7.5m = $4.2m + $3.35m
$7.5m = $7.55m

Year 4
$7.5m = $0m

So in real dollars
$32.5m = $27.6m

That's a real savings of $4.9m, with Rangers actually SAVING cap space in years 2 and 3 by a considerable margin and filling a position of weakness (wing) and off-loading (2) defensemen where they seem to have a bit of depth

This is just an example of what I mean by there are a multitude of possibilities to look at.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

We already have 1 guy in the top 6 in Staal who struggles with the speed of the game,and you want to add another in Bereglazov?

I don't think you or I have watched enough of Bereglazov to make that determination.

You seem to want defensemen in the top 6 who can't defend, which a defenseman has to be able to do.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

You have an owner that *****es about not being paid back for an Uber ride from their franchise player Erik Karlsson. Money is a SERIOUS issues there. They were willing to come down on the ask for EK if a team took Ryan.

I think Melnyk is the worst owner in the NHL, but I believe that story about the Uber ride turned out to be fake.

 

[GregSirico]

I think Melnyk is the worst owner in the NHL, but I believe that story about the Uber ride turned out to be fake.

Ah did it? Ok because that was pretty awful if true. Either way, Ottawa desperately needs to take on less money. They would love to shed Ryan's money, if you're a team willing to take that contract on and dangle something OK in front of them, that first round pick can be had.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Something is wrong if you're taking on contracts with 4 years left assuming you're still gonna be bad. We aren't Arizona.

Exactly what I was going to say. We're not Arizona, this is a cap team.

 

[GregSirico]

Exactly what I was going to say. We're not Arizona, this is a cap team.

Assuming the return is more than just a player you wouldn't do it?

 

[GregSirico]

I agree on the shorter term deals being taken on. Paul Martin is another one.

I'd consider Ryan if the Sens paid enough to have the Rangers take him. Or they retained about $1.5m.

Basically the scenarios are too fluid to say yes or no either way.

Or what about the other way, a 50/50 retention on him and we acquire an asset back for taking on more money.

 

[Avery16]

Not giving Smith a look is cutting your nose to spite your face.

You want to ice the best roster possible. If Smith comes into camp in shape and is ready to play, you give him the chance. Bereglazov should also get a look.

Smith is already getting a look in Hartford and isn’t doing anything at all to deserve more attention. At least Bereglazov is in the KHL.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Exactly what I was going to say. We're not Arizona, this is a cap team.

Again, Ryan isn't bad. If the pendulum swings back, his hands get healed and stronger and he's potting goals at a decent rate. He won't get back to the $7.5m production, but what if he hits 30 goals next year and keeps that pace the following?

He's a guy we can expose to Seattle. A 2020 playoff team might pay up if we retain. The cba forecast will be clearer. That team, or us, could potentially buy him out.

The key to being a GM now is predicting these issues a few years out. Some teams got crushed in the Vegas draft. We did pretty damn well and our plan will be the standard in the Seattle draft.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Smith is already getting a look in Hartford and isn’t doing anything at all to deserve more attention. At least Bereglazov is in the KHL.

Smith's season is a loss. He broke his hand, he's been out. Let's see how he responds. It costs nothing to give him a look at camp.

 

[GregSirico]

Again, Ryan isn't bad. If the pendulum swings back, his hands get healed and stronger and he's potting goals at a decent rate. He won't get back to the $7.5m production, but what if he hits 30 goals next year and keeps that pace the following?

He's a guy we can expose to Seattle. A 2020 playoff team might pay up if we retain. The cba forecast will be clearer. That team, or us, could potentially buy him out.

The key to being a GM now is predicting these issues a few years out. Some teams got crushed in the Vegas draft. We did pretty damn well and our plan will be the standard in the Seattle draft.

I'm all on board the Ryan train at 50% retained. If he is only what he is now, $3M is eh, if he rebounds, it's great value. I like the risk/reward on him. He's 31, the deal will take him to 35. That is not aggressively over the hill at 3M/Y. I think people really have to look at his dollars v production at 50% retained. It makes it a lot more digestible.

 

[GAGLine]

Smith is already getting a look in Hartford and isn’t doing anything at all to deserve more attention. At least Bereglazov is in the KHL.

One has been an NHL defenseman and one has not. Neither is an NHL dman right now, but at least in Smith's case it can be blamed on a poor work ethic. If he works hard in the summer and comes to camp in good shape, there's a reasonable expectation that he can be an NHL dman again.