Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Kupo]

I'd keep namestnikov over spooner personally.. I think spooner. If he isn't scoring...doesnf do anything worthwhile out there...nams seems to be a productive and noticeable player when he isn't scoring . Frankly I'd trade both .

Part of me wants them here for the rebuild. (Names+Spoon).

The other, more seductive part of me wants to see them flipped with our later 1sts to get in the top-10. Problem with that is, which team picking in the top-10 would be interested in that? They’re both good players, but not that good.

That’s why I think Kreider + for EDM’s 1st makes more sense. He’s more valuable than Spoon+Names. 2 years left. He’d be a perfect compliment to McDavid.

It would be tough breaking up that 1st line of KZB, but if it puts us in position to have 2 top-10 picks, its something to think about.

 

[Ola]

How fast is a rebuild? Gorton's fast comment -- must -- be in relation to the point when we start to compete for a PO spot again, the goal is to win a cup, we must be incredibly lucky to build a Cup winner/contender fast.

There 31 teams in this league, like 28 want to contend. There are no shortcuts. You can't just bottom out and collect 3-4 superstars and fetch a cup. The difference between the best kids and the 2nd best kids isn't so big anymore that the best kid developed on a horrible team will become better than the 2nd best kids developed in a perfect environment. There is no cheating around that. You can try to bottom out and end up with a 3-4 picks in the mid to later 10s just as well as a 1st overall. And if you get that 1st overall, the odds of getting a franchise guy isn't tremendously high to start with.

There is only one way to build a contender -- its by doing everything better than the rest.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Tavares won’t happen for the Rangers

I think San Jose is gonna be a sneaky frontrunner for him. I meet one of the sharks beat writers at a bar downtown recently, and asked him what he thought about the Sharks offseason plans. He said there is sense from people he’s talked to they’ll make a big splash for Tavares if he goes UFA. Sharks are in the same boat as the Rangers, the dreaded middle with an aging core. Wilson just wants to buy his way out though

Karlsson on the other hand, could be someone I think is a possibility in free agency.

If the team gathers all their building blocks in the next two summers, I could definitely see them throwing money around to bring him here as the final piece to announce they are back

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Depends on how many pieces the team has when the rebuild starts. The Rangers have quite a few, especially on Forward, with the D needing the most help.

Boston turned it around pretty quick when holding on to some vets.

Zibs, Zuccs, Hayes, Fast, Buch, Kreider, Spooner, Names, & Vesey is a pretty decent core to add to. Chytill and Andersson ready? UFA? We'll see.

Staal, Shattenkirk, Pionk, Skjei is weaker, for sure. ADA? Smith?

We're set in goal.

I don't see why they wouldn't be competing for a playoff spot next year in this parity hell that is the NHL.

Boston turned it around pretty quick but they had pretty elite in their or coming into their prime pieces in Bergeron, Marchand, Pasternak and Rask.

Rangers don't have that. They aren't a complete lost cause, but there is more work to be done on their end than what Boston had to do.

I can say for sure that not all of those guys you listed as "core" players will be back next year. 1 or 2 of them will be wearing different uniforms.

You can't rely on Hank to make 40+ saves in 80% of your wins. Yes thats an exaggeration and a coaching change will definitely help there, but how much can you really expect from him in his age 36 season?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

That's a top-nine, not a core... this team doesn't have a core right now, just auditioning players. I guess you could say Hank, but one guy isn't a core.

 

[bobbop]

I think the team that has changed a lot of attitudes is Las Vegas. No one has turned it around quicker. Ever. There isn’t a player on their roster (save possibly for MAF) that you couldn’t have traded for a year ago.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think the team that has changed a lot of attitudes is Las Vegas. No one has turned it around quicker. Ever. There isn’t a player on their roster (save possibly for MAF) that you couldn’t have traded for a year ago.

William Karlsson, Tuch, Haula, Theodore... They have some prospects who took a big step up this season. Add JAM, Reilly Smith, Neal and Fleury to the mix and you have a bubble-team. They outperformed every expectation and their season has been amazing to follow.

 

[NYR Viper]

Signing the RFA’s to 4-6 year deals is the smart move right now. Trade the soon to be pending UFA’s in Kreider and MZA.

Namestnikov should be a winger. Luckily next year he will be. Spooner replaces Zuccarello in the line-up as a skilled winger.

If I were Gorton I would look at yrading Staal with money retained to open up a spot on defense. They need Smith to come in with something to prove with a new coach. He needs to a NHL defenseman.

I’d sign Kovalchuk to a 2 year deal as a veteran presence if he’d sign. I’d look at Filpulla as a depth center and I’d look to bring in a big bodied winger for the 4th line to stir the pot and play the game. I obviously like Roussell but there are others. With an expansion draft likely, would someone like Roussell take a 3 year deal for a bit more money so the Rangers have someone to expose at that time? Teams will have to consider that moving forward.

 

[bobbop]

I think the Rangers will keep Staal at least one more year. He’s not the player he was 5-6 years ago but he has had a decent season. His NTC modifies after this season and there’s no rush right now to saddle the team with another long term buyout. Additionally he seems to be embracing his role as a mentor to the young defensemen.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Tavares won’t happen for the Rangers

I think San Jose is gonna be a sneaky frontrunner for him. I meet one of the sharks beat writers at a bar downtown recently, and asked him what he thought about the Sharks offseason plans. He said there is sense from people he’s talked to they’ll make a big splash for Tavares if he goes UFA. Sharks are in the same boat as the Rangers, the dreaded middle with an aging core. Wilson just wants to buy his way out though

Karlsson on the other hand, could be someone I think is a possibility in free agency.

If the team gathers all their building blocks in the next two summers, I could definitely see them throwing money around to bring him here as the final piece to announce they are back

I've had the feeling it's either going to be St Louis or San Jose that gets Tavares if he leaves

 

[I Eat Crow]

Agree with bobbop, would keep Staal at this point. If the Rangers are "rebuilding", what's the rush to buy him out and have more dead cap space?

If Erik Karlsson were 25 instead of 28, I would be all over acquiring him, even as a rebuilding team. Ottawa's owner is trying to clear money. The team is going to be sold and possibly relocated within the next 5 years or so. Whoever is going to acquire Karlsson will have to take Bobby Ryan's contract too. How many teams (not counting the wastelands in Arizona and Buffalo) besides the Rangers have the cap space to pull a move like that off? Is Karlsson going to play well into his 30's, or will injuries make him lose a step or two? I think he's already lost a step, but even with one less step, he's still a top 15 defenseman in the league instead of top 5. Tough call.

I'm in the keep Hayes and Namestnikov and trade Spooner camp. I think Spooner has more trade value and Namestnikov plays a more complete game; also has more "character", as Gorton puts it.. Hayes is our only matchup center. He's an easy decision to extend, IMO, unless a team gets stupid and offers a top 10 pick for him.

 

[Mikos87]

What are the Rangers winning? The team is rebuilding.

Kovalchuk said he wants to match Datsyuk's accomplishments of winning a Cup,Olympic gold medal and World Championship. If that's true and Kovalchuk has given a million reasons why he broke his NHL contract which means his word is believable as Putin's word, why would Kovalchuk come here? The Rangers are a rebuilding team. They aren't winning a championship in the near future. Not unless the lottery combinations go their way for a couple of years.

I dont think Ilya will be back here for just a year. 3 years is more like it.

He also has a mansion in the area. The rumor about him wanting to come to NYR has a lot to do with that.

I also think you're mistaken if you think the Rangers going to go with a plan of full on ranking next year.

Theyre going for a rip and replace strategy.

Besides have they been fully tanking since the sell off? 5-2-2 since then... Theyre working to fill in depth across the org.

Kovalchuk represents that front like depth. Leader, RH shooting scorer... All gaps that they have at the moment.

Besides how many contenders at the moment can afford to pay for a Kovalchuk?

 

[GAGLine]

Besides have they been fully tanking since the sell off? 5-2-2 since then... Theyre working to fill in depth across the org.

There was never a chance that the coaches or players would try to lose. Given the trades that have already been made and the possibility of more in the near future, it isn't only the kids playing for a job next season.

The team isn't going to tank next year either, but that doesn't mean they are going to make moves with the idea of actually competing for the cup. Gorton's focus is going to be long term results rather than short term. Kovy isn't a signing you make in a rebuild unless your intention is to flip him. If Kovy is okay with that, great. Sign him for 1 or 2 years and flip him at the deadline to a contender so he has a chance to get his cup. I'd be surprised though if he were willing to sign up for that.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Tavares won’t happen for the Rangers

I think San Jose is gonna be a sneaky frontrunner for him. I meet one of the sharks beat writers at a bar downtown recently, and asked him what he thought about the Sharks offseason plans. He said there is sense from people he’s talked to they’ll make a big splash for Tavares if he goes UFA. Sharks are in the same boat as the Rangers, the dreaded middle with an aging core. Wilson just wants to buy his way out though

Karlsson on the other hand, could be someone I think is a possibility in free agency.

If the team gathers all their building blocks in the next two summers, I could definitely see them throwing money around to bring him here as the final piece to announce they are back

Another low key team i see going after tavares is colorado

They have a metric shit ton of cap space and need a center. MacKinnon-Tavares is probably the 2nd best 1-2 center punch in hockey

 

[Machinehead]

Not against bringing in Kovalchuk at all, but this team needs defense.

They're already going to score 3 a game if they're healthy.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So on D is the consensus Pionk can make it In the top 6 but the rest of the kids are meh?

Thats my opinion.

To start next season.

Skjei-Shattenkirk
Staal-Pionk
Smith-Bereglazov
DeAngelo

 

[DutchShamrock]

Another low key team i see going after tavares is colorado

They have a metric **** ton of cap space and need a center. MacKinnon-Tavares is probably the 2nd best 1-2 center punch in hockey

Add Vancouver to the list.

 

[GregSirico]

Signing the RFA’s to 4-6 year deals is the smart move right now. Trade the soon to be pending UFA’s in Kreider and MZA.

Namestnikov should be a winger. Luckily next year he will be. Spooner replaces Zuccarello in the line-up as a skilled winger.

If I were Gorton I would look at yrading Staal with money retained to open up a spot on defense. They need Smith to come in with something to prove with a new coach. He needs to a NHL defenseman.

I’d sign Kovalchuk to a 2 year deal as a veteran presence if he’d sign. I’d look at Filpulla as a depth center and I’d look to bring in a big bodied winger for the 4th line to stir the pot and play the game. I obviously like Roussell but there are others. With an expansion draft likely, would someone like Roussell take a 3 year deal for a bit more money so the Rangers have someone to expose at that time? Teams will have to consider that moving forward.

I'd keep Kreider long term, unless for example you want to send him to EDM for something amazing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think the Rangers will keep Staal at least one more year. He’s not the player he was 5-6 years ago but he has had a decent season. His NTC modifies after this season and there’s no rush right now to saddle the team with another long term buyout. Additionally he seems to be embracing his role as a mentor to the young defensemen.

I agree with all of this, except I think he's had a bad season, just as bad as last season.

 

[GregSirico]

How fast is a rebuild? Gorton's fast comment -- must -- be in relation to the point when we start to compete for a PO spot again, the goal is to win a cup, we must be incredibly lucky to build a Cup winner/contender fast.

There 31 teams in this league, like 28 want to contend. There are no shortcuts. You can't just bottom out and collect 3-4 superstars and fetch a cup. The difference between the best kids and the 2nd best kids isn't so big anymore that the best kid developed on a horrible team will become better than the 2nd best kids developed in a perfect environment. There is no cheating around that. You can try to bottom out and end up with a 3-4 picks in the mid to later 10s just as well as a 1st overall. And if you get that 1st overall, the odds of getting a franchise guy isn't tremendously high to start with.

There is only one way to build a contender -- its by doing everything better than the rest.

Yeah, that's not even close to being true. Let me know when Max Domi is Nathan MacKinnon or when Pavel Zacha or Joel Eriksson Ek are Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel. Don't use diamonds in the rough or guys that sneak late in the draft as a reason NOT to draft high.

 

[Ori]

• No point moving Vesey - you don`t get a lot in return and he has mostly upsides in his young age, and he barely cost anything consider the overall cap situation.
• We need to get Nam going - so we need either draft a sniper or a scoring winger with high talent, or aim for such a player in this summer window with top 6 line potential who is a NHL player.
• I would push Nam to the left wing role in near future when they call up Lias Andersson and use Nam - Lias - Zucc on the same line for sure. Because Lias is great to find good shooting positions on the ice as a center and he love to finish plays, and playing with two high IQ NHL players is what he need!

 

[Ori]

I agree with @Irishguy42 earlier - if we move anyone in that summer window I would consider Spooner indeed his value is gr8 now on his PPG pace after the deadline, and better return or draft positions in the summer draft.

 

[Kupo]

I agree with all of this, except I think he's had a bad season, just as bad as last season.

I think he was without a doubt, better this season versus last season. Same issue though. He’s a fine third pairing dman being paid like a quality top-4.

It’s crazy how quickly the NHL has changed the last 5 or 6 years. The Staal’s and Girardi’s, whom were both quality dmen in their primes, are simply no longer cut for today’s game.

This has never been more of a young-man’s game than it is today.

 

[Ori]

How fast is a rebuild? Gorton's fast comment -- must -- be in relation to the point when we start to compete for a PO spot again, the goal is to win a cup, we must be incredibly lucky to build a Cup winner/contender fast.

There 31 teams in this league, like 28 want to contend. There are no shortcuts. You can't just bottom out and collect 3-4 superstars and fetch a cup. The difference between the best kids and the 2nd best kids isn't so big anymore that the best kid developed on a horrible team will become better than the 2nd best kids developed in a perfect environment. There is no cheating around that. You can try to bottom out and end up with a 3-4 picks in the mid to later 10s just as well as a 1st overall. And if you get that 1st overall, the odds of getting a franchise guy isn't tremendously high to start with.

There is only one way to build a contender -- its by doing everything better than the rest.

Yes true @Ola and when they moved Ryan Mc. - it`s not an easy fix or turn around, because we need to draft his replacement since most NHL teams won`t move their best ELC guys, or it rarely happens due to the cap league, and we need to start drafting quality prospects who can lead this future Rangers team to a new cup since 94!

I`ve no idea how good Libor Hajek is, but if he is better compare to most 2nd draft guys, if so.. ..it will be huge for us, but we will see about that as early as next season.

 

[Ola]

Yeah, that's not even close to being true. Let me know when Max Domi is Nathan MacKinnon or when Pavel Zacha or Joel Eriksson Ek are Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel. Don't use diamonds in the rough or guys that sneak late in the draft as a reason NOT to draft high.

Yeah because I clearly meant that generational talents will become worse players than so-so mid 1st round picks lol.

The environment matters a lot. The great teams don’t need to build a complete new teams with later picks. They need a steady infusion of talent. It’s enough if they find a diamond in the rough every know and then. When you suck — it’s very hard to get back into the game again. Establish yourself as a top team. There is a reason for why there is an endless list of examples of teams that have sucked for a really long time.

But sure — you need top talent. How are we getting top talent?