Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIII: Have no fear, the TDL is near (Mod Post page 233, #5809 - READ IT)

[Kokoschka]

I'm not sure I'm on board with trading Zucc. Sure, if it's an offer you can't refuse you obviously do it.

But you need some veteran players to mentor rookies and younger guys. Zucc's story is amazing, it's about beating the odds. About reaching your goals through tenacity. Plus, he has the reputation of being a great character for the locker room. That could come in handy in a rebuild.

 

[Beacon]

so why not trade Lundqvist? I doubt Zucc will fetch an amazing return, I rather just hold on to him and re-sign him to another bargain contract.

MZA is a better player than Nash, younger, better cap hit, double the playoffs left on his term. If MZA doesn't bring in double the return of Nash, something went wrong.

 

[Beacon]

One reason our prospect pool is not as good as it could have been is that we keep forgetting that you only need 2 goalies and 6 defensemen in the lineup, but 12 forwards. So we keep drafting, trading, signing for a lot of goalie and defensemen prospects while not accumulating enough forward prospects.

Defensemen always dissipate more than forwatds. It is a more responsible position because it is closer to your own net.

To show how quickly great prospects can dissipate... We had our strongest group of young defensemen in decades was during the summer of 2010. We already had 4 very promising young NHL defensemen (Del Zotto, Staal, Girardi and Sauer), a youngish third pair defenseman in Gilroy, another 3 highly touted first rounders on the farm (McIlrath, Sanguinetti, McDonagh), 3 more second-tier, but solid D prospects (Valentenko, Kundratek, Bickel), a new signee Blake Parlett who was dominant in Traverse, as well as other, lower D prospects who still had hope (Nigel Williams, Jyri Niemi, etc). Of them 3 wound up with good careers (McD, Girardi, Staal), one is a bad NHLer (MDZ) and the rest are gone. Think about that one: we already had 5 (!) young defensemen playing in the NHL with a ton of quality guys behind them (including 3 recent first rounders), and ultimately only 4 of them wound up being real NHLers. The number actually went down. In 2010, the reasonable expectation was "current 5 plus at least 3-4 more." This wouldn't be a crazy, Pollyannish expectation, but a tempered one. Somehow the number actually dropped as Sauer got injured, Gilroy sucked and only McDonagh became an NHL defenseman among our storied group of D prospects.

You don't see the same at forward. The closer to the net, the more likely a kid is to bust: goalies, then defensemen, then centers, and least of all wingers.

The proper way to build a team is from the inside out. If we have to, it will be much easier to deal away a D for a W than in reverse.

 

[Ola]

Will we tank next year too or is the plan to put a team on the ice to compete, at least initially?

One interesting factor in relation to the above is the negotiations with the RFAs that don’t have arbitration rights. Try negotiating with a GM that wants to put a bad team on the ice, he can let you hold out the best you want.

 

[TheTakedown]

I wonder if the Senators would move down from 3 to 7 in return for us taking Ryan.

Melnyk would move down from 1-7 if it meant Ryans contract being gone

Interesting thought... I just checked the buyout on Ryan's contract, it's not that bad considering what it could possibly net us..

Bobby Ryan Buyout - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

There's also the possibility of Ryan rebounding on another team, but you're talking about a lot of potential here.

OTT could try retaining half of his contract. Ryan at 50% is a player I'd take if it meant we moved up in the draft this year

 

[TheTakedown]

Just checked the standings... right now, we're guaranteed a top 10 pick even if we get leap-frogged by 3 teams...

Team GP W L OTL PTS
NY Rangers 63 27 30 6 60
Edmonton 62 27 31 4 58
Montréal 61 23 29 9 55
Vancouver 62 24 31 7 55
Ottawa 61 21 30 10 52
Buffalo 63 19 33 11 49
Arizona 62 18 34 10 46

Basically even Buffalo, who is 6-3-1 in their last 10 could catch up to us...

There's a seriously good chance we end up with a top 5, even lottery pick... Holy shit, if we get Dahlin, I might cry

 

[Savant]

So if we can get Svech instead of another Lias, is it not worth it for us to take on Ryan? We have plenty of cap space.

Absolutely not. Ryan has the worst contract in the NHL I am not taking it to move up unless it’s for Dahlin.

 

[Avery16]

Can we please stop we this topic? If you managed to find this message board you are probably above average when it comes to hockey knowledge and should know about Hank and his contract.

Uh....

 

[egelband]

I'm not sure I'm on board with trading Zucc. Sure, if it's an offer you can't refuse you obviously do it.

But you need some veteran players to mentor rookies and younger guys. Zucc's story is amazing, it's about beating the odds. About reaching your goals through tenacity. Plus, he has the reputation of being a great character for the locker room. That could come in handy in a rebuild.

This is correct. He’s also one of the very few who truly wants to be a Ranger and has put his money where his mouth is. Happy to keep him, for sure.

 

[Synergy27]

Defensemen always dissipate more than forwatds. It is a more responsible position because it is closer to your own net.

The proper way to build a team is from the inside out. If we have to, it will be much easier to deal away a D for a W than in reverse.

I don't know for sure what they're thinking, but the recent moves indicate to me that the Rangers are aware of this uncertainty and hedging against it. Both big trades have prospect defenseman coming back who have additional development time on them that can buy down risk.

They drafted two forwards in the first round again. I expect this draft will be forward heavy as well, unless they luck into Dahlin, for many of the reasons you stated.

 

[Cheapshot]

Today is the day. Let's see if we have any deals left to make.

 

[cheech70]

If I was a contending team I would give a 2nd for Jesper.

 

[Ola]

My Wild Western/NYR rebuild style:

Trade McD to Minny for Kaprizov (who is coming over for 19/20), he can come over in the summer of 19'.

Trade everyone except the young core guys, Ziba, Kreider, JTM, Buch, Fast, Hayes, Skjei and co. Go with something like the following team next season:

Kreider-Ziba-Buch
Spooner-Chytil-Miller
Lias-Hayes-Fast
Beleksy-Boo-Vinny L
Skjei-Pionk
Graves-TDA
Gilmour-Bereglazov
Hank

Get a top 4 pick in 19'. Draft a ton of prospects in 18'-20' with picks acquired from trading Shatty, Zucc and co.

Then in the summer of 19':
-Jump into the UFA market and sign UFAs OEL, McD, Karlsson and Doughty, 9m per for all four, 36m per in total.
-Trade Skjei, TDA, Gilmour and Bereglazov for younger forwards, picks and prospects.
-Pick forwards with out top picks in 18' and 19'.

Lets say that we like can get Tkachuk in the 18' draft and Jack Hughes in the 19' draft our team for 19/20 could look something like this:
Buch (2.5m)-Chytil (900k)-Kaprizov (900k)
Kreider (4.6m)-Ziba (5.3m)-Hughes (900k)
Tkachuk (900k)-Hayes (4.5m)-Miller (4.5m)
ELC (900k)-Lias (900k)-Fast (1.8m
McD (8m)-Doughty (10m)
OEL (8m)-Karlsson (10m)
Graves (1.5m)-Pionk (900k)
Hank (8.5m)

Caphit: 80.5m

The cap will probably be around 90m going into the 19/20 season. Plenty of space to resign most of the ELCs. Ton of prospects on the farm of course. Ton of picks.

How hard can it be?

 

[Ola]

If I was a contending team I would give a 2nd for Jesper.

I would want a 1st! Great character, makes 1.8per for the coming 3 years. Keep him around.

 

[DutchShamrock]

It's not looking too likely that Zuccarello gets traded. Like RB pointed out, the wing market is saturated. Hoffman is the top target so we are stuck behind that.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Who will be the first show to drop today?! I'm guessing Kane being moved.

If love to see the Jets continue to be blocked and they pull the trigger on Zucc.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

My Wild Western/NYR rebuild style:

Trade McD to Minny for Kaprizov (who is coming over for 19/20), he can come over in the summer of 19'.

Trade everyone except the young core guys, Ziba, Kreider, JTM, Buch, Fast, Hayes, Skjei and co. Go with something like the following team next season:

Kreider-Ziba-Buch
Spooner-Chytil-Miller
Lias-Hayes-Fast
Beleksy-Boo-Vinny L
Skjei-Pionk
Graves-TDA
Gilmour-Bereglazov
Hank

Get a top 4 pick in 19'. Draft a ton of prospects in 18'-20' with picks acquired from trading Shatty, Zucc and co.

Then in the summer of 19':
-Jump into the UFA market and sign UFAs OEL, McD, Karlsson and Doughty, 9m per for all four, 36m per in total.
-Trade Skjei, TDA, Gilmour and Bereglazov for younger forwards, picks and prospects.
-Pick forwards with out top picks in 18' and 19'.

Lets say that we like can get Tkachuk in the 18' draft and Jack Hughes in the 19' draft our team for 19/20 could look something like this:
Buch (2.5m)-Chytil (900k)-Kaprizov (900k)
Kreider (4.6m)-Ziba (5.3m)-Hughes (900k)
Tkachuk (900k)-Hayes (4.5m)-Miller (4.5m)
ELC (900k)-Lias (900k)-Fast (1.8m
McD (8m)-Doughty (10m)
OEL (8m)-Karlsson (10m)
Graves (1.5m)-Pionk (900k)
Hank (8.5m)

Caphit: 80.5m

The cap will probably be around 90m going into the 19/20 season. Plenty of space to resign most of the ELCs. Ton of prospects on the farm of course. Ton of picks.

How hard can it be?

Is Kunin, JEE and their #1 coming as well?

 

[Ola]

Is Kunin, JEE and their #1 coming as well?

I forgot about JEE at least, do I get a do-over? Karpizov scored 4 pts and the OT GWer in the OGs. His price probably went up though! I also realized I failed to get McIlrath back into the organization which is usually a goal I have.

Seriously though, I was joking of course. However, knowing this organization, and hey it might be a good idea, we will only be patient for so long and then try to make a splash to bring things along. Getting the top guys like McDavid, Draisatl and the likes are great. Matthews and Eichel and the likes But within no time they are making 10-13m per. If we keep going like this, I think we soon will find ourselves with a decent foundation for the future and a ton of cap space. Think the talk in the coming years will start to turn into a "make a splash" direction.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I forgot about JEE at least, do I get a do-over? Karpizov scored 4 pts and the OT GWer in the OGs. His price probably went up though! I also realized I failed to get McIlrath back into the organization which is usually a goal I have.

Seriously though, I was joking of course. However, knowing this organization, and hey it might be a good idea, we will only be patient for so long and then try to make a splash to bring things along. Getting the top guys like McDavid, Draisatl and the likes are great. Matthews and Eichel and the likes But within no time they are making 10-13m per. If we keep going like this, I think we soon will find ourselves with a decent foundation for the future and a ton of cap space. Think the talk in the coming years will start to turn into a "make a splash" direction.

I give you 3 of 5 Berns for your proposal!

 

[Cheapshot]

Trade deadline predictions... The boards will crash at least three times. In other news leafs fans still fun. Thinking Mac goes for a first and kapanen. If that's all he gets I would be severely disappointed.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Trade deadline predictions... The boards will crash at least three times. In other news leafs fans still fun. Thinking Mac goes for a first and kapanen. If that's all he gets I would be severely disappointed.

They are just setting themselves up for a massive let down if they think that's all it would take. Thats a tad better then what Nash got (deal was essentially Lindgren and a #1 for Nash then Spooner and the 7th for taking Belesky's contract and retaining 50% on Nash).

At a minimum it's going to be Dermott/Liljenen, Kapanen, a #1 and a fourth piece like a conditional #2/Leivo/another prospect.

And I'm still not a fan of that.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[wafflepadsave]

What're your guys predictions?
Does McDonagh move tomorrow? For what?
Zucc?
Bozo?

Mcdonagh won’t move until Karlsson is decided. Tampa wants the prom queen and if that doesn’t work, they’ll off a 2nd rounder.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Not surprising at all.