Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[Savant]

In no way shape or form would I want MCD anywhere near Tampa. **** Tampa and the horse it rides in on..

I’m on the trade McDonagh to the team gives up the most. If Tampa is offering Sergachev, it’s probably the Lightning.

Marner is a great talent, but the Rangers need another pass first forward like I need another hole in my head.

 

[Ola]

https://nypost.com/2017/11/20/examining-rangers-extremes-joe-thornton-run-ryan-mcdonagh-sell-off/

Great Article by Uncle Larry.

BTW I don’t think you can read that proposals like that too litterary. The point is, would someone — one of 30 teams — trade their Marner for McD?

Just sayin that you certainly can question Marner/Sergachev for McD, from both sides, but is it far fetched to speculate on if we could get a really good return for McD? Nope.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Players like Nash almost always yield firsts at the deadline.

The problem we could run into is if Neal and Kane both are available at the deadline and are preferred to Nash. If Nash is third in command in the wingers group, he might not yield a first. He needs to outperform these guys, and it wouldn't hurt if Vegas wins enough games to consider themselves contenders, and therefore not sell. Will Buffalo sell off Kane or try to re-sign him? They won't be contenders, but he's young enough to be able to help them in a few years, and they need all the good players they can get.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Better for the now, I agree. I just don't think the club is wise to keep the aging asset. Get something in return before you can't. Looking at some of the players drafted 16th through 30th in past years. Instead the Rangers pass up on them for the aging asset and the chance for the now. I just don't see the chance for the now as being the move anymore.

Clearly you did not read the whole conversation.

 

[Ola]

Nash AND Grabner
for
Pulju
and conditional 1st round pick
Nash + Grabner pot 40 goals from point of joining Oilers, then pick goes to NY.
Anything less than 40, we live w/just Pul-meister

Interesting proposal @bernmeister , I would definitely be interested in that.

 

[Edge]

What Brooks is proposing isn't too far off from the conversations we were having three weeks ago.

IMO, this team is at a crossroads. I'm in the camp that just doesn't see them as being poised to make a real run, and this team has several guys who are in that awkward age range where they probably wouldn't be part of our next window.

With that said, Larry did make one excellent point - the idea of hitting the reset button always looks much better and easier in theory than it does in reality.

If the Rangers are going to go down the path of maximizing returns, particularly for guys like McD and Zucc, then they HAVE to get it right. They have to be sure they are getting the package they really want.

It goes without saying that any package for McD would need to be a tremendous return - we're not talking just a first round pick. We're talking a top shelf prospect, at least one first round pick and/or some combination of prospects and picks. If you trade McD - you need a HAUL and you need to know you're getting back at least one player who will definitely play in the NHL immediately and for a long time.

They also have to be careful of not accidentally walking into the trap that has grabbed a lot of NHL teams lately - falling in love with a player who bursts onto the scene in his rookie year, only to see the league adjust to that player and watch as his numbers fall back down to earth. In other words, they have to do their diligence and make sure they are getting a player who projects well next year and beyond, not necessarily a player whose best statistical season may have already occurred.

 

[Gardner McKay]

https://nypost.com/2017/11/20/examining-rangers-extremes-joe-thornton-run-ryan-mcdonagh-sell-off/

This is the best article from Larry Brooks in quite some time.

But then you watch other teams, identify all of their flaws, and you think that if Henrik Lundqvist’s revival holds, the Blueshirts could win a round the way they did last year and then based on the draw, maybe even another one, and then, well, what if Neal Pionk and Filip Chytil are ready to contribute the second half and the club is augmented by adding Joe Thornton as a rental?

People here look at every other team out there as these perfect, well built monstrosities that are impossible to beat. The fact of the matter is, every team has its flaws.

 

[Crease]

Tbh, I would be perfectly content if the organization traded McDonagh, Nash, and Zuccarello at the deadline. Regardless of where they stand. Sucks to Lundqvist but I think management should be laser focused on the early 2020s.

 

[Cassano]

In no way shape or form would I want MCD anywhere near Tampa. **** Tampa and the horse it rides in on..

Moot point. Lightning wouldn't trade Sergachev for him.

 

[Savant]

Players like Nash almost always yield firsts at the deadline.

The problem we could run into is if Neal and Kane both are available at the deadline and are preferred to Nash. If Nash is third in command in the wingers group, he might not yield a first. He needs to outperform these guys, and it wouldn't hurt if Vegas wins enough games to consider themselves contenders, and therefore not sell. Will Buffalo sell off Kane or try to re-sign him? They won't be contenders, but he's young enough to be able to help them in a few years, and they need all the good players they can get.

I agree with this but I do think that a team looking to get Kane may not be the same as a team looking to get Nash, because so their different skill sets.

 

[WeRa]

Tbh, I would be perfectly content if the organization traded McDonagh, Nash, and Zuccarello at the deadline. Regardless of where they stand. Sucks to Lundqvist but I think management should be laser focused on the early 2020s.

IMO one of them will probably be traded at the deadline. Nash is most likely. And another will be traded before the draft...

 

[Savant]

Anyone that made fun of Sakic for holding on to Duchene for too long, because his value goes down as he gets closer to UFA, should not be advocating keeping McDonagh and Zuccarello past this season.

 

[Savant]

Great Article by Uncle Larry.

BTW I don’t think you can read that proposals like that too litterary. The point is, would someone — one of 30 teams — trade their Marner for McD?

Just sayin that you certainly can question Marner/Sergachev for McD, from both sides, but is it far fetched to speculate on if we could get a really good return for McD? Nope.

Sure. All depends on the market though. Sakic had to find a third team to make a Duchene trade work for that reason.

I’m sure that McDonagh would be a great fit on a team like Boston (especially with Chata done there), but if they aren’t giving up McAvoy, Carlo, Pasta, PB or BM, do they really have the ammo?

It’s about finding the best fit and being proactive.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Tbh, I would be perfectly content if the organization traded McDonagh, Nash, and Zuccarello at the deadline. Regardless of where they stand. Sucks to Lundqvist but I think management should be laser focused on the early 2020s.

So much this. Shestyorkin, Buch, Chytil, Anderssen, Skjei, Miller is a good starting point to contend in the next the next 3 or 4 years. We should be looking to add more quality players in this age range.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Personally I am firmly in the rebuild camp, while not being oblivious to the risks.

To me the risk of doing nothing is just as bad. Just keeping the tires turning isn't a good strategy. This is a bubble team, who do not have anything on the 3-5 yr horizon that could change that. Yes, other teams are flawed and there is a lot of parity. But instead of mortgaging more (including opportunity cost of not renting Nash & others) to gain a slight edge, I'd rather see them sacrifice to try for a sustained edge.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd be happy if they chose a direction.

 

[Lion Hound]

Looking at Cap Friendly, I didn't realize how many UFA's and RFA's are expiring next season.

UFA's
Nash, Grabner, Desharnais, Carey, Holden, Pavelec
RFA's
Miller, Hayes, Vesey, Nieves, Skjei

Gotta wonder what the next RFA contracts for these guys look like?

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’m gonna keep bringing up Carolina because I think they’re poised for a big move. They wanted Duchene and still need a top guy on F or D. Maybe they go for Patches, but would a McD trade make sense. Hanifin and Roy/another one of their forwards? I think they’d actually be a good trading partner and I wouldn’t hate the return.

Their top-4 would be McDonagh-Faulk and Slavin-Pesce. That’s just stupid.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'd be happy if they chose a direction.

Hmm. You don't think they have chosen a direction?

Gorton is looking for trades that make us younger. Gorton is looking to replenish the farm system. Gorton is taking calculated risks that almost certainly take the team one step back but also have the likelihood of taking the team two, even three steps forward. I'd argue the Stepan trade + Shattenkirk signing all but solidified the direction we are going and that is retool on the fly.

Contrary to popular belief, this team does have a good core. This team can be competitive. This team can win. Doesn't mean they don't need some tweaking along the way.

If we were all out going for it, we wouldn't have traded Stepan and still found a way to sign Shattenkirk, future cap consequences be damned (the Glen Sather approach). If we were rebuilding, we wouldn't have signed Shattenkirk and I'd argue that we probably would have wanted more picks instead of ADA in the Stepan trade (the HFboards approach of rebuild forever until you get a generational player and hope you win).

I think our direction is as clear as it has been since the 2014 & 2015 playoff runs.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I’m gonna keep bringing up Carolina because I think they’re poised for a big move. They wanted Duchene and still need a top guy on F or D. Maybe they go for Patches, but would a McD trade make sense. Hanifin and Roy/another one of their forwards? I think they’d actually be a good trading partner and I wouldn’t hate the return.

Their top-4 would be McDonagh-Faulk and Slavin-Pesce. That’s just stupid.

I think Hayes would make more sense for them instead of ANOTHER defenseman...

He would be a serious upgrade over Ryan, Rask and Kreuger, thats for sure.

Looking at Cap Friendly, I didn't realize how many UFA's and RFA's are expiring next season.

UFA's
Nash, Grabner, Desharnais, Carey, Holden, Pavelec
RFA's
Miller, Hayes, Vesey, Nieves, Skjei

Gotta wonder what the next RFA contracts for these guys look like?

I'm guessing they try a McDonagh deal with Skjei and give him a nice long contract and a good AAV.
Grabner I'm guessing is a goner although if he was willing to sign for 2 more years at 1.5 - 2 mil per I'd re-sign him. Nieves won't get much. Hayes? He is playing himself out of a big contract. Miller is going to hurt.

Nash? I'm wondering if he does re-sign. I wouldn't be against an Eric Staal type deal for him.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'd be happy if they chose a direction.

What does this mean though, that they need to pick either extreme one way or extreme the other?

Either try and go for it or sell off and tank?

Why isn't having a young roster and trying to compete while also trying to bring along young players/prospects get younger a direction?

I think Gorton has chosen his direction: try and get younger to bolster the future but also still keep the team competitive.

 

[NYR Viper]

Hmm. You don't think they have chosen a direction?

Gorton is looking for trades that make us younger. Gorton is looking to replenish the farm system. Gorton is taking calculated risks that almost certainly take the team one step back but also have the likelihood of taking the team two, even three steps forward. I'd argue the Stepan trade + Shattenkirk signing all but solidified the direction we are going and that is retool on the fly.

Contrary to popular belief, this team does have a good core. This team can be competitive. This team can win. Doesn't mean they don't need some tweaking along the way.

If we were all out going for it, we wouldn't have traded Stepan and still found a way to sign Shattenkirk, future cap consequences be damned (the Glen Sather approach). If we were rebuilding, we wouldn't have signed Shattenkirk and I'd argue that we probably would have wanted more picks instead of ADA in the Stepan trade (the HFboards approach of rebuild forever until you get a generational player and hope you win).

I think our direction is as clear as it has been since the 2014 & 2015 playoff runs.

The line of competing while retooling just doesn't sit all that well with me when they have 3-4 pieces that could return major future building blocks but aren't due to trying to sneak into the playoffs.

If Gorton is serious about retooling on the fly then this is the year to make a concerted effort to maximize Holden, Nash and Grabner and see if they can get a glut of picks to replenish the system quickly. This retool doesn't need to be indefinite, but it does need to be done all the way.

 

[NYR Viper]

What does this mean though, that they need to pick either extreme one way or extreme the other?

Either try and go for it or sell off and tank?

Why isn't having a young roster and trying to compete while also trying to bring along young players/prospects get younger a direction?

I think Gorton has chosen his direction: try and get younger to bolster the future but also still keep the team competitive.

I don't need to see them tank, but if his idea for this season was to retool, then losing pending UFA's for nothing is a serious mistake. That's not choosing a direction

 

[Ail]

I don't care if they send McD to the Devils so long as the return is right. Nothing abut this team thus far screams go on a deep run and I don't see that changing much between now and February, but it's way too early still to make that determination. They're playing better, maybe they get hot and the stars align. I'm not confident in that though so long as AV is coaching.

 

[Kovalev27]

im not trading hayes centers are too important

I think we're going to get a pretty good idea of what we need to do come February. if we don't make up some serious ground in the next 10 games or so we're sellers. zero point in getting the 8th spot to get spanked by tampa bay.

ive been against trading mcdonagh because I believe guys that can skate like that can play forever so I have zero doubt mcdonagh will be going strong at 36 even 37. however we've lost the advantage in goal. we are not realistically winning a Cup with this version of lundqvist and I say that knowing he just came off a shiny new shutout. But consistency is long gone and at 35 36 its not coming back. We need Huska or Shesterkin here before we have a real shot again. so knowing I have to pay brady skjei and knowing I have staal (who I dont' buy out) smith and shattenkirk signed, I think I trade mcdonagh IFFFFFFFF the offer is outstanding.

from Toronto it would have to be something along the lines of nylander or marner plus liligren and maybe even a first round pick on top of that.
from tampa it would have to be sergachev and a first (which I dont' think tampa does and I dont' care frankly they can watch a rival get him)
from montreal it would have to be mete galchenyuk and a first

then you have to also look at zucc along with of course nash grabner holden

the thing is we've got enough good players that have played big games at a young age that I'm confident we could still be competitive fairly quickly. Hayes Miller Zibanejad Kreider Skjei Shattenkirk Smith Buchnevich Vesey Fast a very solid core. You add Andersson Chytil Lettieri DeAngelo Pionk plus what you get back in the deals and you are still a good team imo.

Skjei Shattenkirk
Smith DeAngelo
Staal Pionk

is still a D I think that is pretty good and that's not counting what I get in that mcdonagh deal.

zucc gets you a legit return too. Nash and grabner as well. this first round of the 2018 draft is all centers and D. really strong. we'd get some really good players to build on.