Proposal: Roster Building Thread Part X: I Get No Points Out of You

[Gardner McKay]

Continue from Part IX

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[bubba5]

They should just lay down and play dead Get as low as we can to draft as close to
The top as they can and get as many draft picks as they can by the deadline for the next couple drafts. Hopefully Hank sees this and allows them to move him if they can as he does not have time to sit through a rebuild. We have one decent center our wingers are average at best and we are starting to see our d is not as good as we thought. Now we are seeing first had how bad shatty is in the defensive zone.

 

[I Eat Crow]

This is a hell if a draft year to suck. Top 5 picks for 2018, had they been in the draft this last year would have easily gone 1st overall.

Knowing our luck, we'll finish 6th from the bottom like RB's post from the last thread said, and we'd get bumped out of the top 10 by teams that finished ahead of us leapfrogging us in the lottery.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

This is a hell if a draft year to suck. Top 5 picks for 2018, had they been in the draft this last year would have easily gone 1st overall.

Knowing our luck, we'll finish 6th from the bottom like RB's post from the last thread said, and we'd get bumped out of the top 10 by teams that finished ahead of us leapfrogging us in the lottery.

Ya just got to believe

 

[LeetchisGod]

We would have been better off getting the Coyotes first this year. Probably wasn't on the table though.

 

[Charlie Conway]

THose lines...Buchnevich on the fourth, DD on the second. Staal with Shattenkirk on the THIRD pairing...

61-93-36,
20-51-10
26-13-17
40-28/25-89

27-77
76-42
18-22

When does it end?

 

[bubba5]

Lines combo's don't matter at this point. If you suck you suck. Nobody on this team will strike any fear into any opponent.

 

[Leonardo87]

THose lines...Buchnevich on the fourth, DD on the second. Staal with Shattenkirk on the THIRD pairing...

61-93-36,
20-51-10
26-13-17
40-28/25-89

27-77
76-42
18-22

When does it end?

KZB, R.I.P.

 

[Ori]

You`re all funny on this forum - it was wrong to put Buch on the 4th line like David center the 2nd, but we had barely anything going on for the last 6 games at even strength.

Ideally I would use:

Kreider - Miller - Zucc
Nash - Zib - Buch
Vesey - Hayes - Fast
Grabner - smurf - Adam Cracknell

AV promote smurf due to assist, but he was horrific in defense in the same game.

 

[offdacrossbar]

if we win next game everything will seem better.

this team isnt nearly that bad, problem is, everyone else is better.

AV needs to stop tinkering and just let them play. in fact, play your best players the most and let the chips fall.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm more open to seeing Hayes leave before AV. If he's playing 3C, let's cut ties and call it with the kid. Zibanejad has taken a step forward, has Hayes? Who might be interested? CGY? LAK? STL?

Move Hayes for a younger top-9 winger with some upside, or good futures. Move Miller to 2C. Call up Nieves and Lettieri. Trade back for Lindberg.

 

[McSauer]

Is it even possible for this team to go through a rebuild? If they were so inclined, I would have hoped they would have made that decision before this season; then they wouldn't have signed Shattenkirk and Smith to deals...

Can we rebuild with these guys on the team? Would they even be movable?

Yes this is the year to grab draft picks, but I wish they would fully embrace it and deal off the the right pieces (McD, Zucc, etc.) to get the most value (as much as it would suck to see those guys go).

 

[I Eat Crow]

I'm more open to seeing Hayes leave before AV. If he's playing 3C, let's cut ties and call it with the kid. Zibanejad has taken a step forward, has Hayes? Who might be interested? CGY? LAK? STL?

Move Hayes for a younger top-9 winger with some upside, or good futures. Move Miller to 2C. Call up Nieves and Lettieri. Trade back for Lindberg.

I'm with you on Hayes. He hasn't improved at all since his rookie year. What we've seen from him is what we're getting. He's a highly skilled player with size, but he's just a stupid hockey player.

He isn't going to be worth what a long term contract would pay him. Trade him at the deadline if things are really bad or over the summer. His Boston pal Vesey can go with him.

 

[Ori]

Is it even possible for this team to go through a rebuild? If they were so inclined, I would have hoped they would have made that decision before this season; then they wouldn't have signed Shattenkirk and Smith to deals...

Can we rebuild with these guys on the team? Would they even be movable?

Yes this is the year to grab draft picks, but I wish they would fully embrace it and deal off the the right pieces (McD, Zucc, etc.) to get the most value (as much as it would suck to see those guys go).

On paper it looks fine maybe, but it`s really dangerous moves if we are aiming for playoffs hockey - all the issue we have at the moment beginning of this season, and that only involves Stepan last summer which is 1 core player.

 

[Charlie Conway]

Is it even possible for this team to go through a rebuild? If they were so inclined, I would have hoped they would have made that decision before this season; then they wouldn't have signed Shattenkirk and Smith to deals...

Can we rebuild with these guys on the team? Would they even be movable?

Yes this is the year to grab draft picks, but I wish they would fully embrace it and deal off the the right pieces (McD, Zucc, etc.) to get the most value (as much as it would suck to see those guys go).

As you mention, I think we now have too many long-term deals to really effectively rebuild.

Shattenkirk, Smith, Lundqvist, and Staal all have NMCs or NTCs of some variety. Between the NTCs and the cost of Smith, Staal, and Hank will be very difficult to move (and Staal likely impossible).

I don't think we need a full rebuild. There are a lot of young pieces, and even the roster itself isn't all that advanced in age.

If I'm Gorton, my priorities are a two-way top-9 center (or even a good 4C) and possibly a top-9 winger.

But you still have some guys who would be left as the odd-one out. DD is not a great 4C, but he's also not exactly a top-9 C anymore. Hayes doesn't have enough of a defensive game to play a shut-down role. Vesey looks a mess. Zuccs with Hayes and Nash leaves him totally negated. Nash's offense is suffering. The KBZ line can produce, but the scoring isn't consistent.

With chemistry/synergy lacking, it just feels like we have a lot of pieces that don't fit quite right in their spaces.

 

[Charlie Conway]

I'm with you on Hayes. He hasn't improved at all since his rookie year. What we've seen from him is what we're getting. He's a highly skilled player with size, but he's just a stupid hockey player.

He isn't going to be worth what a long term contract would pay him. Trade him at the deadline if things are really bad or over the summer. His Boston pal Vesey can go with him.

Dupe Buffalo? Hayes+Vesey for ROR?

 

[will1066]

Dupe Buffalo? Hayes+Vesey for ROR?

Maybe they can throw in Kane?

 

[JohnC]

I don’t see why they’d need to sell half the team to rebuild. Straight up sucking your way to a top pick could go a long way in changing a franchise and the only thing that’s ever been in the way of that is Hank just being too good for the team to suck that badly.

 

[mike14]

I agree with others that we can't go "sell everything and suck for #1 overall" route, but that doesn't mean we can't rebuild.
We are hampered on the back end with Staal, Smith and Hank's contracts, Shattenkirk could be moved although I don't know why you would, and McD is only moved/not re-signed if he has no interest in playing for a team who is looking to re-tool for a few seasons.

There's not a lot wrong up front in terms of contracts after Nash's comes off the books, it just lacks top end talent.

My plan for the next three seasons after this (until the large defence/goalie contracts are gone) would be
- keep all our draft picks which are likely to be in the top half/third of each round
- get rid of all the 'peripheral' players - obvious ones like Grabner, make a call on guys like Hayes and Vesey
- stay out of the FA market unless it's guys like Grabner on 1 to 2 year 'show me' deals who can then be offloaded for picks
- keep integrating guys like Shesty, ADA, Skjei, Andersson, Chytil over the next few seasons, as well as give proper looks to depth guys like Nieves, Graves, Pionk etc
- look for trades where you can take advantage of desperate GMs trading young talent for 'playoff depth'
- when the backend contracts run out you have a firm understanding of where the gaps are in what should be a relatively young team and fill them through FA, or if they all bust, sell it all and start again

Basically do a Nashville...

 

[Hire Sather]

It's really unfair to call us 'hampered' with the Smith contract as he's played 4 games since inking it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's really unfair to call us 'hampered' with the Smith contract as he's played 4 games since inking it.

It will be the Staal-contract in 2 years

 

[mike14]

It's really unfair to call us 'hampered' with the Smith contract as he's played 4 games since inking it.

It may be a bit unfair, but I view it as an overpayment for the kind of player he is, and between the size of the contract and the NMC he'd be difficult to move, thus the contract may hamper the rangers....

That doesn't make Smith a bad player, he's just overpaid for what he can consistently deliver (IMO of course).

 

[Machinehead]

People are upset about the Smith money and the money McDonagh is going to get, but how about the money Hayes and Vesey are going to get?

At least McDonagh and Smith are useful.

 

[mike14]

People are upset about the Smith money and the money McDonagh is going to get, but how about the money Hayes and Vesey are going to get?

At least McDonagh and Smith are useful.

Pretty sure if we overpay Vesey and Hayes people will be upset.
Personally I find it difficult to get upset about stuff that hasn't happened yet and hopefully won't

 

[QJL]

Rebuild...

Trades

Brendan Smith - Wait for his showcase moment he's been playing well and ship him out. I'd target close to what we traded for, maybe a 2nd and 4th?

Mats Zuccarello -He's our best forward, he's on a great contract, and he can help a real cup contender. Of our veterans I think Mats and McD hold the most value at the deadline. With Mats a few years older, I'd rather move him. I think a late 1st rounder and another mid-round pick is a reasonable ask.

Kevin Hayes - Someone will take a chance on his size and skill. In a good draft, my hope would be similar to the ask for Smith. Late 1st, but more likely a 2nd and 3rd.

Jimmy Vesey - Another 2nd? I don't see this guy as more than a streaky third-line winger. Let's get value while it's still there. Plenty of teams need wing depth in this league.

Michael Grabner - Let's capitalize while this guy is still considered a goalscorer. A mid-range 2nd doesn't seem unrealistic given his production last year.

Other

Rick Nash - Walk. Too expensive to re-sign.

Davis Desharnais - Walk. I don't see it.

Marc Staal - Buy out (eventually). If we're doing a full rebuild, we might have space to keep Staal on this roster without taking on a significant cap penalty burden. If we go through with my suggestions below, I think we keep him through next season at least.

Ondrej Pavelec - Walk. Let's play a kid.

That leaves us with the following lineup in 2018-2019:

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Miller - Chytil - FA (Jagr?)
FA (Hemsky?) - Andersson - Fast
Carey - Nieves - Lettieri
Gropp

McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Skjei - DeAngelo
Graves - Pionk
Staal

Lundqvist
Nell/Georgiyev

2018 top 10 pick (Rangers)
2018 late 1st (Zuccarello)
2018 early 2nd
2018 early 2nd (Hayes)
2018 mid 2nd (Smith)
2018 mid 2nd (Vesey)
2018 late 2nd (Grabner)
2018 early 3rd
2018 early 3rd (Hayes)
2018 early 4th
2018 mid 4th (Zuccarello)
2018 mid 4th (Smith)
2018 early 5th
2018 early 6th
2018 early 7th

With Shestyorkin coming soon, I think this team could get back to being a contender pretty quickly. This is the deepest draft there's been in recent memory. Let's go nuts!