Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part V: Strangers in New York

[Gardner McKay]

Strangers in New York? Hmm.


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[RangerBoy]

This is in response to BBKers from the previous thread.

Gorton sabotaged the Rangers on purpose. He wants to make significant changes so he trades away the top/most important forward on the team for futures with no real plan to replace him for this season. Andersson will be a very important part of the team in the future. If the Rangers are a playoff team or a borderline playoff team,his hands are tied. The Blues did trade Shattenkirk for a #1 and Sanford. The Blues won a playoff round too. It's possible to do both. He signs Pavelec as the backup goalie. Lundqvist will be 36 this season. He suffered two injuries last season. The hip/thigh injury and the knee sprain at the World Championships. That's the best Gorton could do? Pavelec? Lundqvist struggled at times last season. He struggled in December. Raanta saved their butts. The Rangers are cooked if the same thing happens this season. Cooked. I want to use another word but it will censored. Injuries. Bad play. Henrik can't play all of the games. Pavelec needs to win games too. At the deadline,Gorton can trade Nash to a contender for a #1 in 2018 plus another asset or two. Trade Zuccarello to a contender for a younger player. He will have two playoff runs with that team. Very similar to Erat to the Caps for Forsberg. Erat had one season(13-14)and the rest of 2013 season left on his contract. Nashville had a down year in 2013. They were a good team in 11-12. Won a round in the playoffs. Drafted Seth Jones. Added Forsberg. If there a season to miss the playoffs,add another #1 and keep your draft picks,it's the 2018 draft. The Rangers get their Seth Jones(type of player can be a D or F)in the 2018 draft. Another #1 acquired for Nash. Andersson. Chytil. The Rangers younger roster players. You can see the next core group of the Rangers taking shape. Buyout Staal. The only big decision remaining is McDonagh and his contract. People will say that the Rangers won't give up the season. You can make the argument about Gorton giving up on the season with the Stepan and Raanta trade. Their top center and a backup goaltender to their most important player. Gorton bought out Girardi and signed Shattenkirk to keep the fans happy. If the wheels off the bus in the next few seasons,Shattenkirk is a trade possibility because of his NMC becoming a limited NTC. Gorton said "team in transition","rebuild on the fly" and "work in progress". It feels that way looking at the moves made this summer. They also want to play younger players on D.

 

[silverfish]

Nothing screams youth-movement on defense like signing Smith and Shattenkirk to four-year deals, not buying out Staal, and not trading Holden [yet].

Dat youth.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Nothing screams youth-movement on defense like signing Smith and Shattenkirk to four-year deals, not buying out Staal, and not trading Holden [yet].

Dat youth.

Because Smith and Shattenkirk are so old.

They traded for DeAngelo. Signed Bereglazov. This new defense hasn't even played one game yet. You don't know what the opening night roster will be (and spare me the diatribe about not trusting AV). There are other ways to build a team outside of the one way you would do it. You aren't always right and this martyr attitude you have taken is getting really old, really quick.

If they trade Holden (which I think we can all agree is likely to happen), that would make Staal the only player over 30 on our defense. One player over 30. Tell me again how our defense is old.

 

[eco's bones]

Because Smith and Shattenkirk are so old.

They traded for DeAngelo. Signed Bereglazov. This new defense hasn't even played one game yet. There are other ways to build a team outside of the one way you would do it. You aren't always right and this martyr attitude you have taken is getting really old, really quick.

If they trade Holden (which I think we can all agree is likely to happen), that would make Staal the only player over 30 on our defense. One player over 30. Tell me again how our defense is old.

Staal is not going to last until term. He is the next buyout. As for Holden--he'll be gone by the TDL if not before camp breaks if some of the younger D show they're ready.

 

[silverfish]

Because Smith and Shattenkirk are so old.

They traded for DeAngelo. Signed Bereglazov. This new defense hasn't even played one game yet. You don't know what the opening night roster will be (and spare me the diatribe about not trusting AV). There are other ways to build a team outside of the one way you would do it. You aren't always right and this martyr attitude you have taken is getting really old, really quick.

If they trade Holden (which I think we can all agree is likely to happen), that would make Staal the only player over 30 on our defense. One player over 30. Tell me again how our defense is old.

lmfao I'm acting like I'm always right? Oh come on.

This post is so funny. Stop acting like YOU'RE always right and having this 'martyr' attitude. Here's why you're wrong according to my total speculation. Come on, man.

Just like you said. We haven't played a game. We have no idea where Bereglazov or DeAngelo fit into this lineup yet. I personally have a hard time believing that either of them replace Holden. And I'll believe Holden is getting traded when I see that he was traded.

You and RB are operating off of all these assumptions that haven't happened yet. I'm not choosing to follow these assumptions. I have no idea if I'm right, and you'll never catch me saying that I know that Holden will be in the lineup over these guys.

28 isn't young, and it's not the youth movement RB was referring to, and you know this. A "youth movement" on D this year, to me, would've been not re-signing Smith, and explicitly leaving a spot open on the blue line for ADA and Bereglazov to battle for.

As the roster is currently constructed, that spot isn't there.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I mean there is a pretty good chance DeAngelo doesn't even make the team out of camp.

If you assume Bereglazov is guarantee a spot it's almost certain he won't.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Yes, RB, Gorton sabotaged the Rangers by signing by far the best UFA defenseman available who addresses the biggest weakness this team has had for the most recent years. Also signing one of the next best UFA defenseman who had chemistry with Skjei and can be a solid second pair guy. Both are 28. True sabotage! He clearly wants to miss the playoffs!

I love how you're just assuming Pavelec is gonna step in and put up 3.55 GAA and .887 SV% or something. Why bother letting him work with Benny and seeing if he is better behind a team that isn't a tire fire like where he spent his whole career. Why bother, we already know he sucks. Raanta had lost his job as a backup before we traded for him, let's not act like he was a guaranteed success before coming here. Gorton wanted Pavelec because he's been known to be a talented goalie skill wise and also he has been a starter so should Hank struggle or get injured, our backup has legitimate NHL proof of being able to start in the league. You can at least see the logic, right?

Oh wait, no, the sky is falling, Gorton is a saboteur and wants to bottom out this year and will be mad if we're a playoff team and we signed a beer league D division goalie!

Gorton. Sabateur. Not good. Injury. Over-punctuation. Lunacy.

 

[kovazub94]

Rangerboy's has a different definition for "rebuild on a fly" than Gorton. It was the same discussion last year in the "retool" vs "rebuild" discussion. The discussion goalposts have been moved somewhat compared to last season, in that now we are discussing rebuildng on a fly but RB makes an emphasis on the "rebuild" while JG's actions point to "on the fly".

Gorton definitely did not "sabotage" this team. All recent actions cumulatively indicate a desire to make playoffs and compete. Stepan was traded because of the perceived physical deterioration that was expected to continue (that would make him a non-1C going forward) plus the start of NMC. We spent most of the last 4-5 pages discussing how this team should be better than last season's.

Otherwise, if it wasn't a "rebuild ON THE FLY" Nash would've already been traded with money retailed for (any) better return. Klein would've been traded after last season, Smith wouldn't be traded for and then resigned in the offseason and, of course Shattenkirk would not be brought in no matter the term.

And the offseason is still not over yet.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Gorton is doing exactly what he said he would do. Following RB's notes would be a VERY nice step forward for this organization. They had (2) 1st's in 2017. They could conceivably have (3) if they trade Nash and Zuccarello.

Signing Smith and Shattenkirk is about signing assets who fit this system and this team. Gorton isn't blowing the entire thing up. He said they are re-tooling on the fly. If that's the plan and you see some guys who fit your goal for the next couple of years you go get them. Smith and Shattenkirk obviously fit what he was looking for.

Zuccarello is the harder player to move obviously. If he is willing to sign a similar contract to what he has, say 4 years @ $5m, I'd hold on to him. That conversation needs to be had by management with he and his agent

 

[Gardner McKay]

lmfao I'm acting like I'm always right? Oh come on.

This post is so funny. Stop acting like YOU'RE always right and having this 'martyr' attitude. Here's why you're wrong according to my total speculation. Come on, man.

Just like you said. We haven't played a game. We have no idea where Bereglazov or DeAngelo fit into this lineup yet. I personally have a hard time believing that either of them replace Holden. And I'll believe Holden is getting traded when I see that he was traded.

You and RB are operating off of all these assumptions that haven't happened yet. I'm not choosing to follow these assumptions. I have no idea if I'm right, and you'll never catch me saying that I know that Holden will be in the lineup over these guys.

28 isn't young, and it's not the youth movement RB was referring to, and you know this. A "youth movement" on D this year, to me, would've been not re-signing Smith, and explicitly leaving a spot open on the blue line for ADA and Bereglazov to battle for.

As the roster is currently constructed, that spot isn't there.

I am right as what I am saying is not subjective. They added young defensemen. They haven't played a single game yet. The only subjective thing I brought up was IF Holden was traded.

There are so many different scenarios that can play out and you choose to harp on the one that allows you to complain. That is my point. For all we know, Bereglazov - Pionk/DeAngelo could be the bottom pairing or it could be Staal - Holden. It could be Staal - Pionk. It could be Bereglazov - Holden.

We have a new defensive coach. Training camp hasn't even started yet. There is still plenty of time for Holden to be moved. Or, *gasp*, he could be moved AFTER the season starts.

 

[Kovalev27]

I'm actually amazed Holden is still on this roster.

I figured the third pair would be a combo of staal bereglazov and DeAngelo rotating thru

Staal you gotta hope has a good year and gets some trade value otherwise yes he's most likely bought out next year.

I was really hoping for a bozak deal but it's looking more and more like we're going to go in with this forward group and a vastly improved defense.

The bigger issue I have is in goal. I think they got pavelec because they feel he can play big mins for them if something happens with hank again who is clearly breaking down and just not bouncing back anywhere near as quickly when he does. Hank imo is very much out of gas. He was awful against Ottawa after a greatness series against Montreal. He was awful anytime he had any kind of time off.

I honestly hope he takes a cue soon from some others and retires sooner than later. Another season like the one he just had will be unacceptable.

 

[silverfish]

I am right as what I am saying is not subjective. They added young defensemen. They haven't played a single game yet. The only subjective thing I brought up was IF Holden was traded.

There are so many different scenarios that can play out and you choose to harp on the one that allows you to complain. That is my point. For all we know, Bereglazov - Pionk/DeAngelo could be the bottom pairing or it could be Staal - Holden. It could be Staal - Pionk. It could be Bereglazov - Holden.

We have a new defensive coach. Training camp hasn't even started yet. There is still plenty of time for Holden to be moved. Or, *gasp*, he could be moved AFTER the season starts.

What good does adding young d-men do if they're not going to play or if they're blocked by the addition of older d-men?

You don't know if they're going to play. I don't know if they're not going to play. We don't have to act like one of us is definitely right and the other is definitely wrong, because we don't know.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go find another thread to complain in because my seed of hatred and doubt and pessimism must be planted all over HFNYR.

 

[Fugazy]

I'm actually amazed Holden is still on this roster.

I figured the third pair would be a combo of staal bereglazov and DeAngelo rotating thru

Staal you gotta hope has a good year and gets some trade value otherwise yes he's most likely bought out next year.

I was really hoping for a bozak deal but it's looking more and more like we're going to go in with this forward group and a vastly improved defense.

The bigger issue I have is in goal. I think they got pavelec because they feel he can play big mins for them if something happens with hank again who is clearly breaking down and just not bouncing back anywhere near as quickly when he does. Hank imo is very much out of gas. He was awful against Ottawa after a greatness series against Montreal. He was awful anytime he had any kind of time off.

I honestly hope he takes a cue soon from some others and retires sooner than later. Another season like the one he just had will be unacceptable.

I'm a little bit surprised too. Holden is low hanging fruit right now in terms of being a trade piece. Worst case scenario is he provides some great depth for the defensive unit this upcoming season.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm a little bit surprised too. Holden is low hanging fruit right now in terms of being a trade piece. Worst case scenario is he provides some great depth for the defensive unit this upcoming season.

I think there is something holding up the entire market right now.

 

[Gardner McKay]

What good does adding young d-men do if they're not going to play or if they're blocked by the addition of older d-men?

You don't know if they're going to play. I don't know if they're not going to play. We don't have to act like one of us is definitely right and the other is definitely wrong, because we don't know.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go find another thread to complain in because my seed of hatred and doubt and pessimism must be planted all over HFNYR.

You are 100% correct. We don't know if they are going to play. We don't know if Staal and Holden are going to play. Yet you are complaining about out defense being old when we don't know if they will even see any ice time. Gorton has done a great job but some things take time and there is still a lot of time before the season starts.

It's also never a bad thing to have depth. Just throwing that out there too.

 

[silverfish]

You are 100% correct. We don't know if they are going to play. We don't know if Staal and Holden are going to play. Yet you are complaining about out defense being old when we don't know if they will even see any ice time. Gorton has done a great job but some things take time and there is still a lot of time before the season starts.

It's also never a bad thing to have depth. Just throwing that out there too.

This was my original post:

Nothing screams youth-movement on defense like signing Smith and Shattenkirk to four-year deals, not buying out Staal, and not trading Holden [yet].

Dat youth.

Where's the complaint? My only "complaint" about the D is that Staal is still on it. Not that it's not young-enough. I don't care about player age. I care if players can play.

 

[Gardner McKay]

This was my original post:



Where's the complaint? My only "complaint" about the D is that Staal is still on it. Not that it's not young-enough. I don't care about player age. I care if players can play.

It appeared to me like you were complaining about signing Smith and Shattenkirk and implying that we can't have a young defense just because Holden and Staal were still on the roster and our two signings are 28 years old.

If I completely misinterpreted what you were saying then... my apologies and please enlighten me.

If not, I stand by what I originally said.

 

[Avery16]

This is in response to BBKers from the previous thread.

Gorton sabotaged the Rangers on purpose. He wants to make significant changes so he trades away the top/most important forward on the team for futures with no real plan to replace him for this season.

He signs Pavelec as the backup goalie. Lundqvist will be 36 this season. He suffered two injuries last season. The hip/thigh injury and the knee sprain at the World Championships. That's the best Gorton could do? Pavelec?

Disagree with this. We're a better team right now with Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, Andersson and Pavelec than we were with Stepan, Girardi and Raanta. Gorton addressed our most glaring need significantly, and RHS PPQB D are maybe the most sought after commodities in the NHL right now. He traded from two positional strengths in order to do so (C and G) and we still end up with a possible 3C in Andersson, a very capable 4C in DD, and a perfectly competent backup in Pavelec. If he's setting out to undermine the team, he's doing a horrible job of it.

 

[silverfish]

It appeared to me like you were complaining about signing Smith and Shattenkirk and implying that we can't have a young defense just because Holden and Staal were still on the roster and our two signings are 28 years old.

If I completely misinterpreted what you were saying then... my apologies and please enlighten me.

If not, I stand by what I originally said.

No. I couldn't care less about the age of this team. I want players who are good. Feel like if you know enough about my posts to claim I always think I'm right and that I'm a martyr, then you should know how I feel about most things [busting your balls, I hope that's obvious].

The point of my original post was to point out that I disagreed with something that RB said. You know, when he posts actual sentences and not just player names. Chytil. Andersson. Greschner. Gilbert. Messier.

 

[Irishguy42]

If the Rangers win the Cup, I won't care if they were the youngest team in the league or the oldest.

 

[Gardner McKay]

No. I couldn't care less about the age of this team. I want players who are good. Feel like if you know enough about my posts to claim I always think I'm right and that I'm a martyr, then you should know how I feel about most things [busting your balls, I hope that's obvious].

The point of my original post was to point out that I disagreed with something that RB said. You know, when he posts actual sentences and not just player names. Chytil. Andersson. Greschner. Gilbert. Messier.

I really thought you were serious.

Now it all makes sense and I'm not gonna lie, I spit out my water when I read your second paragraph.

If the Rangers win the Cup, I won't care if they were the youngest team in the league or the oldest.

If the Rangers win the cup, I bet you that within not even 24 hours people are calling for a fire sale so we can compete long term.

All in all, I think that by the trade deadline, Holden will be gone, Staal may be gone, and we will acquire another C and roll into the playoffs on a mission to kick some ass.

 

[Hire Sather]

This is in response to BBKers from the previous thread.

Gorton sabotaged the Rangers on purpose. He wants to make significant changes so he trades away the top/most important forward on the team for futures with no real plan to replace him for this season. Andersson will be a very important part of the team in the future. If the Rangers are a playoff team or a borderline playoff team,his hands are tied. The Blues did trade Shattenkirk for a #1 and Sanford. The Blues won a playoff round too. It's possible to do both. He signs Pavelec as the backup goalie. Lundqvist will be 36 this season. He suffered two injuries last season. The hip/thigh injury and the knee sprain at the World Championships. That's the best Gorton could do? Pavelec? Lundqvist struggled at times last season. He struggled in December. Raanta saved their butts. The Rangers are cooked if the same thing happens this season. Cooked. I want to use another word but it will censored. Injuries. Bad play. Henrik can't play all of the games. Pavelec needs to win games too. At the deadline,Gorton can trade Nash to a contender for a #1 in 2018 plus another asset or two. Trade Zuccarello to a contender for a younger player. He will have two playoff runs with that team. Very similar to Erat to the Caps for Forsberg. Erat had one season(13-14)and the rest of 2013 season left on his contract. Nashville had a down year in 2013. They were a good team in 11-12. Won a round in the playoffs. Drafted Seth Jones. Added Forsberg. If there a season to miss the playoffs,add another #1 and keep your draft picks,it's the 2018 draft. The Rangers get their Seth Jones(type of player can be a D or F)in the 2018 draft. Another #1 acquired for Nash. Andersson. Chytil. The Rangers younger roster players. You can see the next core group of the Rangers taking shape. Buyout Staal. The only big decision remaining is McDonagh and his contract. People will say that the Rangers won't give up the season. You can make the argument about Gorton giving up on the season with the Stepan and Raanta trade. Their top center and a backup goaltender to their most important player. Gorton bought out Girardi and signed Shattenkirk to keep the fans happy. If the wheels off the bus in the next few seasons,Shattenkirk is a trade possibility because of his NMC becoming a limited NTC. Gorton said "team in transition","rebuild on the fly" and "work in progress". It feels that way looking at the moves made this summer. They also want to play younger players on D.

Zuccarello will be a career Ranger, Shattenkirk will not be traded the year he signed a bargain deal to come to NYR.

I realize you were wrong about Shattenkirk coming here, now you will be on his case to trade him for his entire tenure here. A shame.

I was surprised they didn't do better than Pavelec, but I will trust management here and be a little rational by assuming that he is not trying to sabotage the team. I've actually always been a fan of Pavelec since his Thrashers days, but I realize he's fell off the wagon a bit here the last couple years. Jets fans like to use him as a scapegoat for their "stacked" teams failing over there. (I've got a bit of an ongoing beef with a group of them)

 

[RGY]

Henrik Sedin at the deadline

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't get all the nervousness about this team. I find the idea of seeing if players like Zibanejad, Kreider, Buch, Miller, Hayes and Vesey can take another step in their respective developments to be very exciting. Adding players like Andersson (who has grown on me dramatically since hus selection), Chytil, DeAngelo, Pionk and Bereglazov thrills me to no end. I like what Gorton is doing. The Rangers are turning over the roster while remaining competitive. Draft well and the process becomes a lot smoother. People think rosters are static. This player needs to have his numbers replaced. I loved Stepan and hated seeing him go, but, everyone is guaranteeing his numbers will be the same in 2017-8. What if they aren't? Now you're a year down the road and Stepan doesn't get you a top 10 pick and a quality young prospect while not taking back any salary. This isn't just plug and place and the numbers will be there. Every year is it's own entity.