Rookie Defensemen

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by sparr0w, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. sparr0w

    sparr0w Registered User

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    Curious. Has a team ever had a better pair of rookie D than the Wings in '91-'92 with Lidstrom and Konstantinov? Both made the All Rookie Team (I'm guessing that's happened before), but have those other duos been better? Nick also was the Calder runner-up, not sure how far down Vlad would have been...

    [​IMG]

    Too bad this is also a "what if?" type of situation. They were Norris runner-ups in consecutive seasons '97 and '98. Nick might not have put the stranglehold on that accolade with Vlad still around.
     
  2. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    In 84/85 Montreal had Chelios as a rookie (had played 12 games in season prior and the playoffs but was still a rookie). He got 64 points in 74 games. They also had Tom Kurvers a rookie who got 45 points in 75 games. They also had Petr Svboda make his debut and he got 31 points in 73 games. Chelios was on the All-rookie team but the other D-Man was Bruce Bell.

    Svoboda played 1028 NHL games getting 399 points and played in the 2000 All-star game.

    Kurvers played 659 games putting up 421 points and topping 50 points 3 times and 30 points 9 times in 10 seasons.

    Chelios has played 1476 gmaes and is still active. No need to go into his merits of his career!

    That is a pretty good rookie D-Man crop considering all were were very good in their first season. All 3 helped the Habs win a cup in the next season (though Kurvers didn't dress in that playoffs). And All three had long and good careers.
     
  3. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

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    I saw this topic and one name came to mind: Dion Phaneuf. While we are on the topic how would everyone rate his rookie year compared to other great rookie years from defenseman (He easily would have one the calder in any other year and because he got overshadowed he really hasn't got the press he should - yes, he's that good.) I think he's a freak of nature and will be the best Dman in the NHL for the next 10 years.
    How would some of the older posters compare him to some of the all time great's (and all time great rookie dman compaigns)
     
  4. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Who was the other great D-Man that was a rookie on the Flames this year? Richie Reghr?

    While OT. I really don't see Phaneuf being the top D-Man in the NHL or winning the Norris for a couple of more seasons. I have no doubt he will win more than one Norris but is he really going to be better than Pronger or Niedermeyer or Lidstrom next season? I don't think so. He has tons of Physical tools and an amazing shot, but most of his point totals are from the PP and he was not even the best D-Man on Calgary this season, Reghr was and Reghr probably will be next year as well.

    Orr and Bourque both had better rookie seasons than Phaneuf did. Orr came into the NHL and basically all of the players were slapping platitudes on him left and right that he would be the best player in the NHL. And they were right. Phaneuf was not that dominant this season. He was absolutely amazing mind you but not as good as some rookie D-Men have been. Like Potvin for example. He had a monster rookie season. His second season he was a 1st team All-star.

    I see Phaneuf as being kind of like a more physical Al MacInnis.
     
  5. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

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    Well, I wasn't really going along with the original intention of the thread, I was more like hijacking it to fit my interests :D
    Maybe my statement came out wrong, I didn't mean he will be the best dman in the NHL next year but more like 10 years from now if you look back he'll be the best damn from the past decade. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to see him garner some Norris votes this year. You are right he will win a few Norris's.

    PP point: Phaneuf 33 out of 49 (67%) Lidstrom 50 out of 80 (63%). PP points are relatively the same for all players. They all get points on the PP. I never liked the "well he gets most of his points on the PP" argument.

    He'll be way better then Pronger is or ever was and he will definately surpase Reghr this year (if Robin was better then he last year.) A more physical MacInnis? That's scary. Imagine if Al could hit like Stevens or Potvin and fight like.....geez I having a hard time thinking of a really good fighting Dman during the past 20 years who could actually play. Anyways, Dion can drop'em. For how good Dion is, Orr probably had more talent in his pinky toe. Puts things into perspective at how good Orr was.
     
  6. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Well this is the type of thing that people who are hyping rookies or young players say. They get too hyped up. Pronger is an amazing defenceman and a physical force. He has an MVP and he was by far the best player on a darkhorse cup finalist. Phaneuf could win 3 or 4 Norris trophies and not be any better than Pronger is. Pronger might win a few more Norris trophies himself.
     
  7. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

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    I said that because I think Pronger's value got carried away this year. Pronger is the best player in the NHL, Pronger is this, Pronger is that..yada yada yada. Pronger is a very good Dman, in the top 10 of the league, but I think it got carried away with the Oilers run this year. He should have been the MVP on the Oilers, they didn't have any superstars. IMO is value got overrated. It was just me getting fed up with all the "Pronger is great" talk.

    It's impossible to prove that a player who played one year in the league is going to be better then someone who has played for 12 years. So, we'll just chalk it up to "my opinion". IMO, Phanuef is a better Dman than Pronger was at his age and has much more potential. Pronger does everything good but Phaneuf will do every better.
     
  8. That's just potential, I think you are the pot calling the kettle black when you say Pronger is overrated, but prod up Phanuef..
     
  9. dafoomie

    dafoomie Registered User

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    Ray Bourque and Brad McCrimmon were pretty good as rookies in 79-80. McCrimmon and Konstantinov have similar credentials, both 2nd team all stars once, both led the league in +/- once. Bourque is one of the top 5 defensemen of all time (and I say he's top 3).

    Bobby Orr, Joe Watson, and Gary Doak were all rookies the same year, too. Doak was a solid NHL'er, Watson was a 2 time all star, and he's in the Flyers hall of fame.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2006
  10. theprogoalie777

    theprogoalie777 Registered User

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    Wayde Redden

    I think Wayne Ressen is the a good D:)
     

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