Ron Francis vs. Jean Ratelle

[jiggs 10]

It is worth noting Rattelle did not become a full time NHLer until he was about 25. Born 1940... first NHL season he did not play in the AHL as well was 1965/66. And he got shots every year from age 20 on... and while it was the original six and tough to make the NHL... he was on a very poor team.

Francis immediately became the best player on his team and a PPG player at age 18 in his draft year.

This is significant I think. Five partial up and down seasons for Ratelle tell a story to a degree. I am not saying Ratelle wasn't great... but having watched Francis from the start I doubt he gets the back and forth minors treatment for 5 years even in the original six if he was Rangers property.

Had Francis played in the 1960's "Surviving Six" days, he would never have made the NHL at all. He came up at age 18 to be the "best" player on the worst team in the 24 team NHL (Hartford). I seriously doubt he would have made any of the 6 teams from the 60's, except as a 4th line call-up until he was at least 25, much like Ratelle. But he would not have then lasted as long. In those days, you could shake the tree and watch 6 or 7 "hard-working defensive players" fall out, which is what Francis was most of his career. And his career playoff numbers were obviously inflated by the years in Pittsburgh when everyone on the team got assists just for being on the ice! LOL!

They are close, but Ratelle had the better peak, and the longer peak (1970-1980) as a dangerous forward, IMO.

 

[Sturminator]

Had Francis played in the 1960's "Surviving Six" days, he would never have made the NHL at all. He came up at age 18 to be the "best" player on the worst team in the 24 team NHL (Hartford). I seriously doubt he would have made any of the 6 teams from the 60's, except as a 4th line call-up until he was at least 25, much like Ratelle.

Except that we're talking about the Rangers, here. The Rags were not a strong offensive team when Ratelle broke into the league - not at all. Could Ron Francis have stuck with the Rangers as an 18 year old? Unlikely, but he may have gotten a regular NHL gig at a younger age than Ratelle did.

I think some people overrate Ratelle's 2-way play. He wasn't exactly a defensive whiz - not a floater, but I place him on about the same level as Joe Thornton today, only less physical. Ratelle would backcheck and drop down into the zone to support the defensemen, but I think "responsible" is probably about as far as I'd go in describing his defensive prowess. Ratelle was one of my favorite players on those Rangers teams and I don't blame him for the franchise's postseason failures, but he's been described so often as a "2-way player" (mostly by Don Cherry in contrast to the floater Esposito) that I think we're losing a bit of perspective of what he brought to the ice.

 

[Ogopogo*]

It is pretty close but Ratelle was the better player.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

I'd give Ratelle a slight edge, but Francis certainly holds his own in this comparison. I just don't recall Francis ever being one of the 5 best forwards in the NHL at any time in his career.

My favourite Ratelle story was when he appologized to Don Cherry for winning the Lady Byng trophy.

 

[Sbufkle]

I cant believe some of the guys saying he didnt play well in playoffs and the stats shwon by others clearly show contrary to it...

Ratelle was awesome, but Francis could really shut down the opposition and win key face offs. Ratelle was good in his own end.. but IMHO Francis was better at that facit..

Francis got his p[oints in an era as well where players with 100 points were more common.

 

[MadArcand]

Francis, by sheer career value edge.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

As mentioned above, with the Rangers, Ratelle had as secondary scoring, guys like Tkachuk with Fairbairn Polis, then Vickers came around.

With Boston, he could make a line with Middleton and Cashman, while a second line of O'Reilly, McNab and another 20 goal scorer. Bobby Schmautz Gregg Sheppard were also available.

Kind of like Francis playing in Hartford then Pittsburgh. Most people forget about the Hartford Francis, because basically nothing happened, no one else was there etc. In pittsburgh, he puts up better points behind Mario with the help of Jagr, Stevens, Recchi, Tocchet, Coffey, Murphy etc.

Very similar comparison between the 2.

The main difference I see is in 72, when Ratelle was catching up with Esposito for points leader until he got injured.

In Hartford Francis had three 30 goal seasons. Never had one in Pittsburgh. Because they needed him to score goals in Hartford. In the '95 playoffs, the first year Mario didn't play, Francis led the team in playoff scoring with 19 points in 12 games. Because they needed him to step up in Mario's absence. No offense to Ratelle, but Francis was better.

When Ratelle first came to Boston he played on a line with Cashman & Bucyk. The old geezer line. They ended up first (Ratelle with 90 points), second and fourth on the team in scoring. It was amazing to see them carry into the zone in slow motion with about 6 short passes. And all 3 were excellent on the boards, with Ratelle and Bucyk doing it without taking more than a couple of penalties a year. (2 Lady Byng's apiece).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Had Francis played in the 1960's "Surviving Six" days, he would never have made the NHL at all. He came up at age 18 to be the "best" player on the worst team in the 24 team NHL (Hartford). I seriously doubt he would have made any of the 6 teams from the 60's, except as a 4th line call-up until he was at least 25, much like Ratelle. But he would not have then lasted as long. In those days, you could shake the tree and watch 6 or 7 "hard-working defensive players" fall out, which is what Francis was most of his career. And his career playoff numbers were obviously inflated by the years in Pittsburgh when everyone on the team got assists just for being on the ice! LOL!

They are close, but Ratelle had the better peak, and the longer peak (1970-1980) as a dangerous forward, IMO.

you could shake the tree and watch 6 or 7 "hard-working defensive players" fall out, which is what Francis was most of his career.

You do realize Ron Francis is the 4th leading scorer in NHL history and 2nd all-time in assists? Has to be the stupidest assertion I've ever read on HF.