Rogers Place Construction Thread

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
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It's basically a more modern version of the Edmonton CN Tower as it stands.

I really hope they redesign that bottom portion.

It would be if the square portion ended at the Plaza level like the CN tower. If the Stantec was designed like that it would be a major improvement. For me if the lines extended from the plaza to the top of the building that would be a better look. Just pinch the building of a bit where the condo portion ends and the office portion begins.

Or better yet (if boxy is the look they want) design it after a classic look like the Empire State building.
 

Replacement*

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What?

It's a tower on top of a box.

My take was a glass sheathed Westin hotel on top of a Telus (i.e. box)

We're plebes though so we're supposed to be seeing something else.

Oh, and I actually like the CN Tower. Nice art deco like modernist design lines shooting up to the sky. Its win, but could've been taller.
 

Xelebes

Registered User
Jun 10, 2007
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Edmonton, Alberta
It would be if the square portion ended at the Plaza level like the CN tower. If the Stantec was designed like that it would be a major improvement. For me if the lines extended from the plaza to the top of the building that would be a better look. Just pinch the building of a bit where the condo portion ends and the office portion begins.

Or better yet (if boxy is the look they want) design it after a classic look like the Empire State building.

The bottom is commercial and the top is residential. The bottom is boxy to max out the floorspace because large floorplates are desired for commercial. Pinching as you say might do the trick as the top floors may be where the boardrooms and the bigwig offices are.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
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The bottom is commercial and the top is residential. The bottom is boxy to max out the floorspace because large floorplates are desired for commercial. Pinching as you say might do the trick as the top floors may be where the boardrooms and the bigwig offices are.

Thanks for the clarification....looks like I had things backwards in temrs of which portion was which.

Surely though maxing out the floor space shouldn't come at the expense of curb appeal. Thats what much of the unappealing architecture in Edmonton represents already...bland and boxy.
 

Section337

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Though i can understand they are somewhat blah, I've always preferred working in boxes. They just feel more efficient to me. Sometimes features just add maintenance costs; for example, from work I have a nice view of the Manulife lawn, but the only person who uses it is the lady who cuts the grass.

About this particular building, it does seem to fit shape wise with the other buildings that are part of the overall plan. Not sure if making each or even one building super unique would look that good.
 

Playa Hejda

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Oct 9, 2013
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#yeg
Though i can understand they are somewhat blah, I've always preferred working in boxes. They just feel more efficient to me. Sometimes features just add maintenance costs; for example, from work I have a nice view of the Manulife lawn, but the only person who uses it is the lady who cuts the grass.

About this particular building, it does seem to fit shape wise with the other buildings that are part of the overall plan. Not sure if making each or even one building super unique would look that good.

The Manulife lawn always bugs me, I'd love to be able to figure out a way to eat lunch up there on a nice day. There's a ~10th floor balcony on the Melcor building that also never gets used. It would be the perfect place to have an after work beer.
 

Hockey Nightmare

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Oct 25, 2007
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So I guess much of downtown Calgary looks like ****? Sure the Bow looks great. But one of these is not like the others. What do you think guymez?

akcxhs.jpg
 

Up the Irons

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Mar 9, 2008
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Looks really clean and not out of place at all.

There will be more giant towers, people, big weird looking ones! The first mega-scraper doesn't have to be shaped like an inverted pyramid for it to be a solid addition to downtown.

thank you.

I can't believe this. Art Gallery's too weird. Office tower isn't weird enough. New arena's to extravagant. Churchill Square is too concrete. Balls on Whitemud are... too... i don't even know what.

Has anything, just any one thing, that has ever been built or proposed, in this city good for you some of you guys?

FFS, its an office tower. a very long rectangle. its not the Sidney Opera House. And besides, the Arena is our Opera house.

edit: I just looked at the photos. What's the problem? looks nice enough. i see no problem whatsoever, and not one solid reason to b-tch about it.
 
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Section337

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The Manulife lawn always bugs me, I'd love to be able to figure out a way to eat lunch up there on a nice day. There's a ~10th floor balcony on the Melcor building that also never gets used. It would be the perfect place to have an after work beer.

Two buildings ago, I got to watch that get renovated. Did see it get used for one event, but the construction crew was the only other large group I ever saw there. And a few buildings have picnic tables, but smokers don't even seem to use them. I agree, it would be nice to use those spaces to eat lunch. Heck, even a meeting or two, particularly status meetings.
 

Replacement*

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Didn't see it posted, and it's rather relevant to the old arena debate.


David Staples @dstaples · 11h New Stantec skyscraper will raise enough taxes to pay city's portion of arena cost, Farbrother says

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...aper+beacon+better+things/10151615/story.html

This is conjecture.

Plus that the projected finish date of the Stantec Tower is 2yrs past the finish date of the Arena. So theres going to be ample initial carrying of the debt. The figures probably assume full leasing, continued boom economy, no unexpected costs from Arena, and are also potentially playing with numbers specifically for the Arena only and not the corollary costs, city infrastructure costs, pedway, i.e. TOTAL city costs.

Finally, if the taxbase from Stantec tower were to be solely relocation from somewhere else taxbase then what Farbrother says could have some bearing. That these are actually office space relocations from already within the city negates the tax increases to a large extent. Additonally, of the condo portion of the tower this assumes new residents to Edmonton otherwise its just people paying tax somewhere in Edmonton, that will pay tax somewhere else in Edmonton. Most of these "found" monies are in fact already had. That point strangely missing. Staples, being an investigative journalist is supposed to question that type of thing. But of course he's a shill instead.

This is the nature of fudge figures that on closer examination deserve scrutiny. I know everybody is giddy at City Hall today but you'd have to be drunk or intentionally misleading to make these kind of projections. To anybody that reads between the lines I find it a bit insulting how often aour intelligence is being questioned with these bold faced lies. Rather than being convincing or helpful this is the nature of claim that causes one to question a lot of the claims made in general.

But knowing how these fallacies work todays statements will be accepted as actual fact tomorrow by 90% of the people that would support this endeavor anyway. I know I'll be hearing this quote for years here now no matter how erroneous or unsubstantiated it is. Its misinformation, wilful, from people getting paid and who you would like to think would know better in their incumbent occupations.
 
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Replacement*

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The Manulife lawn always bugs me, I'd love to be able to figure out a way to eat lunch up there on a nice day. There's a ~10th floor balcony on the Melcor building that also never gets used. It would be the perfect place to have an after work beer.

These are ideas that really need to happen here. Nothing better than a watering hole on a rooftop or elevated above the din. I thought Mercer was going to be opening some rooftop patio which would be awesome location in which to view the Arena.
 

Oiltankjob Fail

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Feb 10, 2013
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This is conjecture.

Plus that the projected finish date of the Stantec Tower is 2yrs past the finish date of the Arena. So theres going to be ample initial carrying of the debt. The figures probably assume full leasing, continued boom economy, no unexpected costs from Arena, and are also potentially playing with numbers specifically for the Arena only and not the corollary costs, city infrastructure costs, pedway, i.e. TOTAL city costs.

Finally, if the taxbase from Stantec tower were to be solely relocation from somewhere else taxbase then what Farbrother says could have some bearing. That these are actually office space relocations from already within the city negates the tax increases to a large extent. Additonally, of the condo portion of the tower this assumes new residents to Edmonton otherwise its just people paying tax somewhere in Edmonton, that will pay tax somewhere else in Edmonton. Most of these "found" monies are in fact already had. That point strangely missing. Staples, being an investigative journalist is supposed to question that type of thing. But of course he's a shill instead.

This is the nature of fudge figures that on closer examination deserve scrutiny. I know everybody is giddy at City Hall today but you'd have to be drunk or intentionally misleading to make these kind of projections. To anybody that reads between the lines I find it a bit insulting how often aour intelligence is being questioned with these bold faced lies. Rather than being convincing or helpful this is the nature of claim that causes one to question a lot of the claims made in general.
You try and reach father then the new tower.
 

Replacement*

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You try and reach father then the new tower.

Explain how I'm wrong.

Only NEW taxbase helps the city service the NEW debt.

Taxbase just rearranged and relocated that the city already receives DOES NOT service the additional debt. Only creative accounting will make it look to be the case.

Its one of the chief difficulties with CRL arguments as well. Sure there might be more taxation in surrounding area. But unless these are overall net increases for the city, i.e. new taxed space that isn't being lost somewhere else it isn't net gain, it isn't more net taxation.

Which should be quite clear to anybody.

more disappointing that the City, and Farbrother have been called on exactly this specific misinformation countless times.

Not sure why they persist in it.
 

Oiltankjob Fail

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Feb 10, 2013
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Explain how I'm wrong.

Only NEW taxbase helps the city service the debt.

Taxbase just rearranged and relocated that the city already receives DOES NOT service the additional debt.

Its one of the chief difficulties with CRL arguments as well. Sure there might be more taxation in surrounding area. But unless these are overall net increases, i.e. new taxed space that isn't being lost somewhere else it isn't net gain, it isn't more net taxation.

Which should be quite clear to anybody.

more disappointing that the City, and Farbrother have been called on exactly this misinformation countless times.
Listen the AED is producing what it promised and a chain reaction of others getting into the game when they have emphatically stated that this would not of happened without the arena. The jobs the manufacturing which every tax payer in the city gets a little bit of benefit from. The new eateries bars nightclubs to follow , and don't try and say they would of just opened elsewhere in the city because they already would have. I see you try and defend a stance you took from the beginning and it will be the hill you die on regardless how stupid your stance looks now. But hey keep screaming and kicking. Majority of people n Edmonton love the new vibe . Your stuck in the 1800's mentality.
 

Speed220DChalavan

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
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"Ooo ya? you calling my hood an eyesore? Northside and west side is the ass hole of edmonton ", herp derp. There's many beautiful northside neighborhoods, same as the west.

This isn't 'everyone gets a ribbon' participant contest.

North Edmonton is universally panned by the international community. An area of the city that evokes a sense of shame, hollowness, and regret.
 

PBandJ

If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Jan 5, 2012
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This isn't 'everyone gets a ribbon' participant contest.

North Edmonton is universally panned by the international community. An area of the city that evokes a sense of shame, hollowness, and regret.

I never even said I was any better. I'm in Millwoods, this place was murder central of this city for a time.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,205
21,405
Explain how I'm wrong.

Only NEW taxbase helps the city service the NEW debt.

Taxbase just rearranged and relocated that the city already receives DOES NOT service the additional debt. Only creative accounting will make it look to be the case.

Its one of the chief difficulties with CRL arguments as well. Sure there might be more taxation in surrounding area. But unless these are overall net increases for the city, i.e. new taxed space that isn't being lost somewhere else it isn't net gain, it isn't more net taxation.

Which should be quite clear to anybody.

more disappointing that the City, and Farbrother have been called on exactly this specific misinformation countless times.

Not sure why they persist in it.

I think what you're missing in the equation is this is merely one building going up to generate taxes, mind you it's a big one. There will be many more towers going up on VACANT parking lot land that will essentially generate new taxes. Unless you want to continue to skewer it with the fact that we already had parking lot taxes.
 

chrisj

Registered User
Mar 7, 2005
504
0
Explain how I'm wrong.

Only NEW taxbase helps the city service the NEW debt.

Taxbase just rearranged and relocated that the city already receives DOES NOT service the additional debt. Only creative accounting will make it look to be the case.

One comment property taxes are paid by someone no matter if a building is full or not.

So property taxes will be paid by whoever owns the new Stantec tower.

And property taxes will continue to be paid by whoever owns the current Stantec buildings.

It doesn't matter whether there is a tenant or not - someone is paying.

I guess you could argue that a tenant could build a tower outside the CRL and stay pay taxes into general revenues. But a tenant could also build somewhere in Sherwood Park, St. Albert, Calgary, etc and pay taxes there.

So I guess I get what you're saying... but don't think it is as black/white as you appear to.
 
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Up the Irons

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This isn't 'everyone gets a ribbon' participant contest.

North Edmonton is universally panned by the international community. An area of the city that evokes a sense of shame, hollowness, and regret.

that's because its older. if you go further out, tho, its just as nice as any area. I like my area (Castledowns). My avatar may be a dead giveaway that I'm a northender!! very diverse. some call it Little Beirut. Neighbourhood shopping. I go to my local strip mall for much of my groceries; lots of Arabic bakeries, meat shops. Neighborhood restaurants, pubs. It's very Euro/mediteranean
 

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