Rochester Americans: 2017-18

[Chainshot]

Maybe if Fasching along with Bailey or Baptiste (when in Rochester) showed any signs of life we wouldn't be needing this convo. Team also...much like Buffalo lacks backbone. Keep Atwal in the lineup for all in concerned. Letting Dupuy leave was a huge mistake. Team's need 4th liners like that. There is way to much veteran pressence and talent on this team to be losing like this....

The team is run through career AHL vets like Porter and Griffith and most of the defense (Redmond, Paetsch, Percy, Fedun, the terrible Tennyson). It's likely that they expected growth from Cerberus and instead got next to nothing. Same with Nylander.

How Matt Tennyson keeps getting ToI amazes me. He's terrible.

 

[sabrefan27]

Didn't they just get two of them back today?

What was the issue with the collapse?
Poor dzone play?
Letting up with the lead then never dialing back in when it got close ?
Goaltending?
Poor coaching decisions?
Penalties?

The problem for some time seemed to be the inability to score. That obviously wasn't the case tonight

I didn’t watch the game. But LGA said no one showed up. But this has happened repeatedly all season long. They simply stop playing when they have a lead. Every. Single. Time. Complete laziness in every facet of the game.

It doesn’t help that Ullmark was called up. I don’t care what anyone says, it was a BS move that will hurt this team. Yes, he probably doesn’t play tonight because of the baby. But Vogl speculated he could be up until the Sabres season is over. The Amerks playoff position is not solidified. There are so many things that have gone wrong it’s hard to even collect my thoughts. Everything has been very disappointing. I was first in line for the Botterill fan club. And I’m really disgusted with a lot thats happened.

 

[ek93]

I'm a Sabres fan but not an Amerks fan (born and raised in Binghamton, so my AHL allegiance belongs to them). I think the Amerks will be alright once they can get into the playoffs and get some semblance of their normal roster back. Anything can happen once the playoffs roll around, it just comes down to who gets hot at the right time. When my hometown B-Sens won the Cup in 2010-11, they had a .518 win % at this point in the season. Snuck into the playoffs as the crossover team and the rest is history (thanks in part to Robin Lehner playing out of his mind during the playoffs oddly enough).

They're a pretty deep team when everyone is there, in my opinion at least. In the beginning of the season they looked incredible, so what's the difference? It has to be partly due to the injuries/call-ups they're getting picked apart by, right? I definitely think they're capable of going on a run once they're at full health.

With that being said, I really don't understand why they keep blowing leads constantly, especially with their veteran defense. Or how they can look terrible for a stretch of ten games and then put up 12 goals against one of the best teams in the league. They're a unique team for sure.

 

[joshjull]

I don't think Botts/Sexton handling of the Amerks has been good since July. That's not trolling. That's watching/listening to their games. AHL-level moves where happening in the weeks leading up to the trade deadline. Other teams tweaked lineups by making deals.

And the 7-out-of-9 forwards missing (Smith is back, so that was one of 'em) isn't necessarily a thing to sit back and wait on. They needed help after Moses left in December. It's almost three months with that hole and not a move. They're not good enough and much like at the NHL level, haven't done anything to address it. It's strange, given their off-season comments, to see them do so little.

Digging out is not something AHL teams have to do. They never have. The Amerks installed a bunch of quality AHL veterans in the summer for a change yet they still had holes. Getting AHL help isn't the same as getting NHL help. They said all the right things over the summer and have burned that cache to the ground in the last four months with their inactions.

They did install a good vet group and signed some good non-vet adds with experience. A problem has been the youth group hasn't contributed much. Outside of CJ Smith (college UFA), Guhle and Ullmark, none of the youth are big contributors. Part of that is injury, part is callups and part is simply not putting it together. As for adding help during this span. I have no answer for you as to why they didn't. I just see the problems here in part due to the bigger issue of the hollowing out of our young talent and depth. Add to that our organizations bizarre propensity for injuries at all levels, some possible freshman coaching hiccups and letting it ride without additions and we get the struggles they have now.

 

[joshjull]

I'm a Sabres fan but not an Amerks fan (born and raised in Binghamton, so my AHL allegiance belongs to them). I think the Amerks will be alright once they can get into the playoffs and get some semblance of their normal roster back. Anything can happen once the playoffs roll around, it just comes down to who gets hot at the right time. When my hometown B-Sens won the Cup in 2010-11, they had a .518 win % at this point in the season. Snuck into the playoffs as the crossover team and the rest is history (thanks in part to Robin Lehner playing out of his mind during the playoffs oddly enough).

They're a pretty deep team when everyone is there, in my opinion at least. In the beginning of the season they looked incredible, so what's the difference? It has to be partly due to the injuries/call-ups they're getting picked apart by, right? I definitely think they're capable of going on a run once they're at full health.

With that being said, I really don't understand why they keep blowing leads constantly, especially with their veteran defense. Or how they can look terrible for a stretch of ten games and then put up 12 goals against one of the best teams in the league. They're a unique team for sure.

Thanks for the perspective. I'm hoping they get it together for the playoffs with the reinforcements they'll get. But obviously there are no guarantees that will happen. As a fan from Buffalo, expecting the worst is a hard habit to break.

 

[joshjull]

The team is run through career AHL vets like Porter and Griffith and most of the defense (Redmond, Paetsch, Percy, Fedun, the terrible Tennyson). It's likely that they expected growth from Cerberus and instead got next to nothing. Same with Nylander.

How Matt Tennyson keeps getting ToI amazes me. He's terrible.

I think thats the case.

 

[sabrefan27]

I'm a Sabres fan but not an Amerks fan (born and raised in Binghamton, so my AHL allegiance belongs to them). I think the Amerks will be alright once they can get into the playoffs and get some semblance of their normal roster back. Anything can happen once the playoffs roll around, it just comes down to who gets hot at the right time. When my hometown B-Sens won the Cup in 2010-11, they had a .518 win % at this point in the season. Snuck into the playoffs as the crossover team and the rest is history (thanks in part to Robin Lehner playing out of his mind during the playoffs oddly enough).

They're a pretty deep team when everyone is there, in my opinion at least. In the beginning of the season they looked incredible, so what's the difference? It has to be partly due to the injuries/call-ups they're getting picked apart by, right? I definitely think they're capable of going on a run once they're at full health.

With that being said, I really don't understand why they keep blowing leads constantly, especially with their veteran defense. Or how they can look terrible for a stretch of ten games and then put up 12 goals against one of the best teams in the league. They're a unique team for sure.

No, they’ve played poorly with a mostly full roster. They’re just not a good team. And they certainly have underachieved. They have very few excuses to have played as poorly as they have since Christmas. And the biggest problem is they don’t seem to be improving or fixing their issues.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm unwilling to lay all of this like blown leads and late collapses on four kids who collectively haven't been in the lineup together most of the season.

 

[ek93]

No, they’ve played poorly with a mostly full roster. They’re just not a good team. And they certainly have underachieved. They have very few excuses to have played as poorly as they have since Christmas. And the biggest problem is they don’t seem to be improving or fixing their issues.

Well they're missing Criscuolo, Griffith, Guhle, Baptiste, Bailey, Nelson, Ullmark, E-Rod and they just got CJ Smith back right? I feel like that has something to do with their decline, doesn't it? Not trying to argue or anything, as you follow the Amerks much more than I do. Just curious.

 

[Chainshot]

Well they're missing Criscuolo, Griffith, Guhle, Baptiste, Bailey, Nelson, E-Rod and they just got CJ Smith back right? I feel like that has something to do with their decline, doesn't it? Not trying to argue or anything, as you follow the Amerks much more than I do. Just curious.

This isn't a new thing though. They've been having these problems since December.

 

[DJN21]

The team is run through career AHL vets like Porter and Griffith and most of the defense (Redmond, Paetsch, Percy, Fedun, the terrible Tennyson). It's likely that they expected growth from Cerberus and instead got next to nothing. Same with Nylander.

How Matt Tennyson keeps getting ToI amazes me. He's terrible.

How a team with that much vet depth, Cerberus as you call it...Nylander a top 100 prospect to boot...with solid guys like Smith (when healthy) can keep losing is beyond me too.

I mentioned several paged back that losing Smith would cripple this team because he is their ROR lite...I think I might be correct for a change...(dont tell my fiance)

 

[ek93]

This isn't a new thing though. They've been having these problems since December.

Gotcha. I'll defer to you guys since I don't really follow them at all. Maybe it's just a case of Sabre-itis. Seems to be contagious in this organization.

 

[sabrefan27]

Well they're missing Criscuolo, Griffith, Guhle, Baptiste, Bailey, Nelson, Ullmark, E-Rod and they just got CJ Smith back right? I feel like that has something to do with their decline, doesn't it? Not trying to argue or anything, as you follow the Amerks much more than I do. Just curious.

Rodrigues was never truly a part of the team. The rest have spent most of the season in Rochester and have underachieved. Nelson was terrible in Rochester especially, much better in Buffalo.

 

[DJN21]

No, they’ve played poorly with a mostly full roster. They’re just not a good team. And they certainly have underachieved. They have very few excuses to have played as poorly as they have since Christmas. And the biggest problem is they don’t seem to be improving or fixing their issues.

I dont mean this to sound like an attack I'm genuinely asking...aside from your hate for Taylor what do you think is the problem?

 

[DJN21]

Gotcha. I'll defer to you guys since I don't really follow them at all. Maybe it's just a case of Sabre-itis. Seems to be contagious in this organization.

Simply put for non Amerks fans...the team scores in bunches but lacks any fundamental system hence why we lose goals in bunches. The team lacks identity...no set leaders, no blue collar workers, no toughness...Ullmark is also just so so. It's even worse when he's not in net though...

They run a pop gun offense that scores in bunches but folds under pressure...i.e exactly what Buffalo is capable of.

Watching them live can be invigorating or completely deflating given the game you're discussing.

 

[Chainshot]

Well, they wanted to build consistency within the organization....

 

[sabrefan27]

I dont mean this to sound like an attack I'm genuinely asking...aside from your hate for Taylor what do you think is the problem?

I don’t “hate” Taylor. He’s an Amerks hall of fame and has done a lot for the organization. But he hasn’t been a good coach.

I wish I had a better answer for the problems. They just don’t play complete games. They will dominate for short periods of time like tonight. And then like a light switch, they turn into a completely different team. They’ve blown so many leads it makes my head spin. It started in November. You’d think that’s enough time for the coaching staff to right the ship. Nope. It’s gotten worse.

It hasn’t helped that Buffalo decided to call players up for no reason. The Criscuolo call up a couple weeks ago is debatable, but they didn’t need him. They don’t need Ullmark. There’s been other times this season where they could have let a player play and then call him up after the game, but they’ve decided they want to sit them out for whatever reason. There’s more. From management to coaching there’s been a lot of failures. The only thing they did well was signing a bunch of player last summer and talked a big game in interviews. They haven’t backed it up.

 

[DJN21]

I don’t “hate” Taylor. He’s an Amerks hall of fame and has done a lot for the organization. But he hasn’t been a good coach.

I wish I had a better answer for the problems. They just don’t play complete games. They will dominate for short periods of time like tonight. And then like a light switch, they turn into s completely different team. They’ve blown so many leads it makes my head spin. It started in November. You’d think that’s enough time for the coaching staff to right the ship. Nope. It’s gotten worse.

It hasn’t helped that Buffalo decided to call layers up for no reason. The Criscuolo call
up a couple weeks ago is debatable, but t eh didn’t need him. They don’t need Ullmark. There’s been other times this season where they could have let a player play and then call him up after the game, but they’ve decided they want to sit them out for whatever reason. There’s more. From management to coaching there’s been a lot of failures. The only thing they did well
was signing a bunch of player last summer and talked a big game in interviews. They haven’t backed it up.

Ullmark and Criscuolo were called up well after the Amerks slide...its not an excuse for play. The defense is made of entirely vets and Guhle...shouldn't be the problem....again I dont mean it as a call out to you just brainstorming with the other person on this site that I think watches them more than me....

Lack of identity is it for me.

Bring it tweener mercenaries with no ties to the club, failed prospects, underachieving prospects...then there is prospects showing up ala guhle who see their work go to hell. idk...just spitballing.

 

[sabrefan27]

Ullmark and Criscuolo were called up well after the Amerks slide...its not an excuse for play. The defense is made of entirely vets and Guhle...shouldn't be the problem....again I dont mean it as a call out to you just brainstorming with the other person on this site that I think watches them more than me....

Lack of identity is it for me.

Bring it tweener mercenaries with no ties to the club, failed prospects, underachieving prospects...then there is prospects showing up ala guhle who see their work go to hell. idk...just spitballing.

Yeah I get that. But both call ups weren’t needed. What bothers me is the talk from Botterill about the emphasis of winning at the AHL level and then making those roster moves. They’re still fighting for home ice advantage and Botterill clearly doesn’t give a shit.

 

[DJN21]

Yeah I get that. But both call ups weren’t needed. What bothers me is the talk from Botterill about the emphasis of winning at the AHL level and then making those roster moves. They’re still fighting for home ice advantage and Botterill clearly doesn’t give a ****.

Or the calls come from above Botterill...Sabres are and should be the priority...those moves might not be relatable for all we know....

idk I'm as dumbfounded as you. I thought this was gonna be our year to at east have a decent playoff run...

 

[Satanphonehome]

Like it or not the Amerks exist to make the Sabres better.

I suspect it’s not as easy to add impact talent in season as some are making it out to be.
I also suspect that too many vets is not an ideal situation; they either crowd out developing prospects, or they create bad chemistry when they are benched in favour of prospects.
And isnt saying they “only” added O’Regan, a very good AHL forward kinda like saying the Sharks “only” added Evander Kane? It looks like one of the more significant deadline AHL pickups.

Ullmark, Criscuolo and the rest have been called up because Botterill wants to see how they look at the next level and how they (or if they) fit into his plans for the big team next year. That’s what’s best for the Sabres.

Even with their recent struggles, the Amerks remain in the top 10 of the AHL standings and in shouting distance of the top five. They will make the playoffs. And when the playoffs start and the Sabres are done they will be dressing a deep roster that hopefully is strong enough to not put the weight of the world on the kids while still giving them an opportunity to shine. Hopefully some of them step up and become better Sabres for the experience.

This - not being some kind of AHL powerhouse - is their purpose.
The degree of entitlement permeating this thread is hard to swallow.

 

[Der Jaeger]

How’s Nylander been the last couple games? Any growth?

 

[Chainshot]

Like it or not the Amerks exist to make the Sabres better.

I suspect it’s not as easy to add impact talent in season as some are making it out to be.
I also suspect that too many vets is not an ideal situation; they either crowd out developing prospects, or they create bad chemistry when they are benched in favour of prospects.
And isnt saying they “only” added O’Regan, a very good AHL forward kinda like saying the Sharks “only” added Evander Kane? It looks like one of the more significant deadline AHL pickups.

Have the Sharks had problems winning games in regulation time for three months? No. Drawing that parallel discounts any other issue that the team is experiencing over a time scale greater than a couple of weeks. (Also to point out, the Sharks also picked up useful vet Eric Fehr for essentially nothing and he's shored up their center depth nicely and secured Dell on a quality cost and term extension, showing GM's can make both large and small trades while performing internal roster maintenance at the same time.)

Ullmark, Criscuolo and the rest have been called up because Botterill wants to see how they look at the next level and how they (or if they) fit into his plans for the big team next year. That’s what’s best for the Sabres.

Even with their recent struggles, the Amerks remain in the top 10 of the AHL standings and in shouting distance of the top five. They will make the playoffs. And when the playoffs start and the Sabres are done they will be dressing a deep roster that hopefully is strong enough to not put the weight of the world on the kids while still giving them an opportunity to shine. Hopefully some of them step up and become better Sabres for the experience.

This - not being some kind of AHL powerhouse - is their purpose.
The degree of entitlement permeating this thread is hard to swallow.

So why come out and talk about building a winner in Rochester this summer? Why bother to put that spin on things if this is the set of actions taken? Wouldn't it have been better for both Botterill and Sexton to simply stay silent over the summer than to speak up and then poorly deliver thus far? Is it entitlement to think that the people who run the team actual deliver on the words that came out of their own mouths? I don't think so. Making promises and breaking one's word is not a way to win back fans. While you may think Rochester exists only to make the NHL team better, ultimately any team is supposed to exist to provide entertainment value to the ticket-buying public. Amerk fans have been regularly treated to the level of indifference your early explanation points at and it shows in their attendance numbers. Would it not be in the interest of the franchise, as a whole, to re-establish cache with their paying fans which allows them branding opportunities long into the future? It may be fine for Pegula in the short term to think burning money on his hobby is fine, but why not actually try to run the teams involved as though they are supposed to be run within the markets that they exist? Seems wickedly shortsighted to discount alienation of existing fans just to serve as a repository and nothing more.

 

[Duddy]

Is it the roster or coaching?

When you blow so many leads, it has to reflect on the coaching staff at least a little, no?

 

[Chainshot]

Is it the roster or coaching?

When you blow so many leads, it has to reflect on the coaching staff at least a little, no?

Or a lot. Tails is off my Christmas card list.