Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[Discoverer]

And what are the chances the Jays actually outbid the Dodgers, Yankees etc?

Zero. The chances the Jays outbid the Yankees and Dodgers for Otani are zero. Not because they won't be willing to pay up, of course, but because every team in baseball will make the exact same bid ($20 million, which is the max) for the right to negotiate, and then once they've made that bid every team in baseball will offer the most they possibly can for his services, with the caveat that they're limited by their available international bonus pool money. For the Jays, that's $50,000. For the Dodgers, it's $300,000. For the Yankees, it's over $3,000,000.

 

[zeke]

Mike Hazen, Derek Falvey, Jeff Bridich, Jeff Luhnow, Dan Duquette, Jed Hoyer, Mike "H to the" Rizzo. All in four or less.

and which of them inherited a 75 win team with a 28th ranked system?

 

[sparxx87]

Lack of communication?





Jays had the market right on Encarnacion - Article - TSN

Right, total lack of communication. Calm down, Atlantas not too far from Toronto.

That’s one side of the story. Edwin always wanted to come back to Toronto. It would have happened if they did it right. Missing out on Morales and Pearce wasn’t something to worry about. There’s a reason neither of them can find a home long term.

As Zeke mentioned, AA built a legitimate contender. He opened a window with a roster that needed some tweaks and Shatkins has done nothing but take backwards steps.

....I don’t give a damn about the farm system. I want October baseball. AA did it, while these idiots are exceptional at building bridesmaids.

 

[Discoverer]

....I don’t give a damn about the farm system.

Guerrero and Bichette for Stanton. Get it done!

 

[Discoverer]

and which of them inherited a 75 win team with a 28th ranked system?

Rizzo inherited a 59-win team with the 26th ranked system. So...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

and which of them inherited a 75 win team with a 28th ranked system?

Lol

Rizzo (59 wins), Hoyer (71), Duquette (66), Luhnow (56), Bridich (66), Falvey (59), Hazen (69)

I'd check the farm system rankings but I feel like this is (a) enough pwnage for now and (b) I'm off to the gym.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Guerrero and Bichette for Stanton. Get it done!

Gitterdunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn (spits chew into a spitter).

 

[Discoverer]

Luhnow inherited a 56-win team with the 26th ranked system. Is that bad enough?

 

[sparxx87]

Guerrero and Bichette for Stanton. Get it done!

That’s obviously not what I mean. Stanton doesn’t fix this team, anyway.

Again, you guys can laugh... enjoy being bridesmaids for the next decade. That’s all these fools have ever built. Call me when they’ve put a real boss in the chair - they aren’t competing with the big boys until then.

 

[Eyedea]

That’s one side of the story. Edwin always wanted to come back to Toronto. It would have happened if they did it right. Missing out on Morales and Pearce wasn’t something to worry about. There’s a reason neither of them can find a home long term.

As Zeke mentioned, AA built a legitimate contender. He opened a window with a roster that needed some tweaks and Shatkins has done nothing but take backwards steps.

....I don’t give a damn about the farm system. I want October baseball. AA did it, while these idiots are exceptional at building bridesmaids.

Are you conveniently revising history or did you simply forget AA wasting several years of Bautista and Encarnacion's prime in hopes of building a farm system that could sustainably compete? There was a reason why he was often being compared to "stand" Pat Gillick.

 

[sparxx87]

Are you conveniently revising history or did you simply forget AA wasting several years of Bautista and Encarnacion's prime in hopes of building a farm system that could sustainably compete? There was a reason why he was often being compared to "stand" Pat Gillick.

A young, first time GM took time to assess his options. It’s difficult to lure free agents here so his plan was to stockpile blue chip arms and parlay them when the time was right. He wasn’t going to overpay free agents.

He executed his plan. It almost worked. Now he’s gone before he could finish the job while the Jays are back to a sub .500 team.

 

[Eyedea]

A young, first time GM took time to assess his options. It’s difficult to lure free agents here so his plan was to stockpile blue chip arms and parlay them when the time was right. He wasn’t going to overpay free agents.

He executed his plan. It almost worked. Now he’s gone before he could finish the job while the Jays are back to a sub .500 team.

Why would he need time to assess his options in an organization that he's been employed by for seven years? If anything you're making a case as to why Ross Atkins is maintaining big league status quo and building his farm system.

 

[zeke]

Lol

Rizzo (59 wins), Hoyer (71), Duquette (66), Luhnow (56), Bridich (66), Falvey (59), Hazen (69)

I'd check the farm system rankings but I feel like this is (a) enough pwnage for now and (b) I'm off to the gym.

Duquette (1yrs): inherited 66wins, 21st BA org talent ranking, + 4th overall pick
Hazen (1yrs): inherited 69wins, 28th BA org talent ranking, +7th overall pick
Bridich (3yrs): inherited 66 wins, 8th BA org talent ranking, +3rd overall pick
Rizzo (4yrs): inherited 59wins, 21st BA org talent ranking, +1st overall pick
Hoyer (4yrs): inherited 71wins, 16th BA org talent ranking, +2nd overall pick
AA (5yrs): inherited 75wins, 19th BA org talent ranking, +11th overall pick


Falvey? he inherited 94 wins.

 

[BlueForever75]

We will win division this year. You heard it from me first.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Precisely what Otani’s way of thinking is remains somewhat shrouded in mystery, but Dan Evans, the Blue Jays’ head of Pacific Rim Operations, has been the club’s point man on the ground, building up a base of knowledge about the 23-year-old. Major-league scout Jim Skaalen “spent weeks watching him play and understanding the pieces of the puzzle,” said Atkins, while assistant GM Andrew Tinnish, pro scouting director Ryan Mittleman and scout Jon Lalonde also went to Japan for first-hand looks.

“Everything we’ve learned about Otani is that it’s baseball and baseball first,” said Atkins. “He’s thinking about how he can be one of the best athletes in the world.”

To that end, it’s sensible for the Blue Jays to position themselves as the team to help him reach those goals, especially since money won’t provide the tipping point in the bidding. Since Otani is under 25, his signing will count against a team’s international bonus pool, which is hard capped between $4.75-$5.75 million depending on a club’s market size and revenue.

The Blue Jays are on the lower end of that scale and spent heavily in July, but they acquired some pool room from the St. Louis Cardinals in a trade for minor-leaguer Lane Thomas during the summer and are believed to have slightly more than $1 million to work with right now.

That, in concert with the opportunity to play both ways the Blue Jays are willing to offer, plus the tools to make the endeavour succeed is how Atkins and company could try to sell Otani.

 

[Eyedea]

In context, AA inherited a much better team than 75 wins. They were 75-86 with a +27 run differential. Next year their best pitcher is gone and their four best offensive players were either ineffective or gone, and you still shift +10 in the win column despite maintaining that same run differential.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Duquette (1yrs): inherited 66wins, 21st BA org talent ranking, + 4th overall pick
Hazen (1yrs): inherited 69wins, 28th BA org talent ranking, +7th overall pick
Bridich (3yrs): inherited 66 wins, 8th BA org talent ranking, +3rd overall pick
Rizzo (4yrs): inherited 59wins, 21st BA org talent ranking, +1st overall pick
Hoyer (4yrs): inherited 71wins, 16th BA org talent ranking, +2nd overall pick
AA (5yrs): inherited 75wins, 19th BA org talent ranking, +11th overall pick


Falvey? he inherited 94 wins.

I appreciate you admitting you’re wrong in a very Zekian way.

 

[sparxx87]

Why would he need time to assess his options in an organization that he's been employed by for seven years? If anything you're making a case as to why Ross Atkins is maintaining big league status quo and building his farm system.

Because a different chair has different buttons to press. He deserves an award for moving Vernon Wells.

Atkins inherited a much better major league team that had a legitimate chance to win with the right tweaks.... but instead, we’re back to ‘rebuilding the minors’ .... Great! I can’t wait! I can’t tell you how excited I am to catch the Lansing Lugnuts in action!

This team won’t get another cent of my money.

 

[Discoverer]

In context, AA inherited a much better team than 75 wins. They were 75-86 with a +27 run differential. Next year their best pitcher is gone and their four best offensive players were either ineffective or gone, and you still shift +10 in the win column despite maintaining that same run differential.

He also inherited pre-breakout Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion.

 

[theaub]

In context, AA inherited a much better team than 75 wins. They were 75-86 with a +27 run differential. Next year their best pitcher is gone and their four best offensive players were either ineffective or gone, and you still shift +10 in the win column despite maintaining that same run differential.

AA showing up as a retread utility player turned into one of the best hitters of the decade sure didn't hurt (albeit, full credit to AA for locking him up after 2010).

 

[zeke]

In context, AA inherited a much better team than 75 wins. They were 75-86 with a +27 run differential. Next year their best pitcher is gone and their four best offensive players were either ineffective or gone, and you still shift +10 in the win column despite maintaining that same run differential.

could make the same argument for all those teams, really.

 

[Discoverer]

could make the same argument for all those teams, really.

No, you absolutely can't.

 

[zeke]

I appreciate you admitting you’re wrong in a very Zekian way.

i stand by "only 5yrs".

i never argued it was the shortest ever.

 

[phillipmike]

No, you absolutely can't.

Well you can, it just wouldnt be a good one.

 

[zeke]

No, you absolutely can't.

No? explain to me the moves duquette made to change his team into a playoff team the first season.