Speculation: Revamping Management and Turning Stones

[MasterDecoy]

The destruction continues and there is no end in sight. I knew something was wrong when the assistant coaches remained in place in Laval. That was the first sign that nothing will change.

Molson is a ****ing liar, pure and simple

Hold on to your horses. If the new coache doesn't fire his assistant, then yeah, set the boats on fire. It's custom to wait for the new coach to decide if he wants to keep the assistant coaches. The new head coach usually makes the decision

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Who did Molson ask for advice concerning the GM he should hire ?

Serge Savard, a man who, while being a bit ahead of his time, is totally from the past.

Was even asked to be President at the time, if Im not mistaken.

Would have been nice, in hindsight, cause he criticized Bergevin a couple times, he would have made him walk the line.

But, still, the man is old school, and from the gold age of the Habs.

While I'll always respect Savard, I hope Molson asks the advice of someone younger next time, to get a fresh perspective.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Earlier this week, when MB was on with Langevin and Ciccone, he said he was going to meet with Julien this week to do their evaluation. He didn't say which day, but if there are to be assistants getting canned, I would think (and hope) that those announcements will come this week.

 

[Adam Michaels]

The destruction continues and there is no end in sight. I knew something was wrong when the assistant coaches remained in place in Laval. That was the first sign that nothing will change.

Molson is a ****ing liar, pure and simple

It's not uncommon for teams to keep the assistants on board while the organization looks for a new coach. Sometimes they clean house like they did in Calgary. But sometimes, they get rid of the head coach and let the next guy decide what he wants to do.

When MB was hired, one of his first acts was to fire Cunneyworth. But they kept the assistants and let the next coach (MT) decide if he wants to keep any of them or not. Once MT was hired, he opted to bring in his own team. And that's when they fired the assistants.

They give the coach a chance to talk with the assistants and see if they're compatible. If they believe that they can adapt or maybe even truly share the same philopsophy. Sometimes assistants believe in a different approach to the game than the previous coach. And the new coach sees the game the same way. And so once they sit down and talk, they realize that they're on the same wave length.

So I don't take them not firing the assistants in Laval as confirmation that they're sticking around.

 

[Chili]

Someone put it best on here a few years back. It was after a 24CH episode where it was mentioned that the Habs were keeping up to date with the trends around the league.

Back in the day, the Habs were the team setting the trends, not trying to follow them.

I don`t believe there is a 'one size fits all' way to win in the league.

The Kings won with a big heavy team, the Hawks with a small fast puck possession skilled team. Wings won with a veteran disciplined team with great special teams. Pens won with a no name defence and two goaltenders.

I don`t believe the Bruins have more talent then the Leafs but they are beating them as a team. Boston plays for each other, they have a clear team identity.

The Habs need a long term strategy/vision, one that reflects the team they want to be, not just plugging holes with whomever.

 

[Habs Icing]

DOES EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS?

* grunt *

Time to make a sexual harassment move?

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Someone put it best on here a few years back. It was after a 24CH episode where it was mentioned that the Habs were keeping up to date with the trends around the league.

Back in the day, the Habs were the team setting the trends, not trying to follow them.

I don`t believe there is a 'one size fits all' way to win in the league.

The Kings won with a big heavy team, the Hawks with a small fast puck possession skilled team. Wings won with a veteran disciplined team with great special teams. Pens won with a no name defence and two goaltenders.

I don`t believe the Bruins have more talent then the Leafs but they are beating them as a team. Boston plays for each other, they have a clear team identity.

The Habs need a long term strategy/vision, one that reflects the team they want to be, not just plugging holes with whomever.

So, basically...

A plan ?

 

[Habs Icing]

Only the Habs fire head coaches but not the assistants along with him. Therrien got fired (because Bergevin couldn't keep him any longer without risking his own neck) but made sure that his buddy JJD wasn't tossed out on the street. And in Laval he cans Sly (also because he has to save his own neck) but leaves Carriere and Carriere Junior still employed.

This isn't a pro sports franchise anymore. It's a placement agency for the friends and associates of Marc Bergevin.

You guys are taking this all wrong. Look at the bright side. At least now you know he's a loyal guy.

 

[Chili]

So, basically...

A plan ?

I get the impression (right or wrong) that Molson and Bergevin are on different pages from listening to the year end press conference.

But yes, a plan, long term, that everyone is buying into.

Listening to Ron Hextall, the Flyers are losing to the Pens but they have a long term plan which won`t change much based on this year`s playoffs. The Jets clearly had a long term plan which is now showing the results.

Someone was saying (forget who now) that the Pens all play the same way. That starts with drafting, their AHL team, other player procurement and coaching.

So yes, a plan, a total organizational commitment to ideas and standards.

 

[theghost1]

If Molson is going to be true to his word and leave no stone unturned then that means he will be signing....William Karlsson,Nylander or Larkin to an offer sheet on July 1st.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

I get the impression (right or wrong) that Molson and Bergevin are on different pages from listening to the year end press conference.

But yes, a plan, long term, that everyone is buying into.

Listening to Ron Hextall, the Flyers are losing to the Pens but they have a long term plan which won`t change much based on this year`s playoffs. The Jets clearly had a long term plan which is now showing the results.

Someone was saying (forget who now) that the Pens all play the same way. That starts with drafting, their AHL team, other player procurement and coaching.

So yes, a plan, a total organizational commitment to ideas and standards.

I was just kidding by the way, MB and Molson always swear by 'the plan' they can't talk about.

I agree with what you said about Molson and MB not being on the same page, before that press conference, I always had the impression Molson was subservient to MB, like if he was 2nd in command. But not that time, he totally was in control.

I also think MB doesn't have any kind of real plan, cause, like you said, most of the teams go through with it and won't change it... MB said, at the beginning, that the idea was to build through draft. Don't know if he thought he'd be alright with the 2012 and 2013 drafts, but he traded picks left and right after that instead of getting more...

I blame this on the fact the organization doesn't have a real President, and it's on Molson to realize he's the one responsible for what's happening.

I just hope, while waiting for the firing of MB, that their 'plan' doesn't screw the team too much in the meantime... at least Lefebvre is gone, that's a beginning.

 

[Tyson]

Hold on to your horses. If the new coache doesn't fire his assistant, then yeah, set the boats on fire. It's custom to wait for the new coach to decide if he wants to keep the assistant coaches. The new head coach usually makes the decision

A lot of teams clean house after the debacle Laval just witnessed. Also, why is Larry Carriere still making decisions?
I stand by what I said...Laval had the worst record in the ENTIRE AHL in their inauguration season. Totally unacceptable. The only reason the assistant coaches are still in place is because Nick Carriere is one of the coaches. Nepotism at its finest.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Someone put it best on here a few years back. It was after a 24CH episode where it was mentioned that the Habs were keeping up to date with the trends around the league.

Back in the day, the Habs were the team setting the trends, not trying to follow them.

I don`t believe there is a 'one size fits all' way to win in the league.

The Kings won with a big heavy team, the Hawks with a small fast puck possession skilled team. Wings won with a veteran disciplined team with great special teams. Pens won with a no name defence and two goaltenders.

I don`t believe the Bruins have more talent then the Leafs but they are beating them as a team. Boston plays for each other, they have a clear team identity.

The Habs need a long term strategy/vision, one that reflects the team they want to be, not just plugging holes with whomever.

Habs aren't going to be able to set trends unless they bring in people that can identify the trends and potential opportunities. Having a bunch of people with a scouting background and no real business or data experience is recipe for doing things the way they always have.

Even if you embrace involving data in the decision making process, you're screwed if you don't know how to interpret it well.

 

[Beer and Chips]

So as Director and Coach of Player Development, respectively, what does Rob Ramage and Francis Bouillon do?
Seriously?

 

[hvac412]

Time to make a sexual harassment move?

Or an assault with a friendly weapon

 

[Chili]

I was just kidding by the way, MB and Molson always swear by 'the plan' they can't talk about.

I agree with what you said about Molson and MB not being on the same page, before that press conference, I always had the impression Molson was subservient to MB, like if he was 2nd in command. But not that time, he totally was in control.

I also think MB doesn't have any kind of real plan, cause, like you said, most of the teams go through with it and won't change it... MB said, at the beginning, that the idea was to build through draft. Don't know if he thought he'd be alright with the 2012 and 2013 drafts, but he traded picks left and right after that instead of getting more...

I blame this on the fact the organization doesn't have a real President, and it's on Molson to realize he's the one responsible for what's happening.

I just hope, while waiting for the firing of MB, that their 'plan' doesn't screw the team too much in the meantime... at least Lefebvre is gone, that's a beginning.

Interesting question, who really is in charge.

When the business and hockey side don't agree who wins out?

I agree that it looks like Molson is getting more assertive.

Habs aren't going to be able to set trends unless they bring in people that can identify the trends and potential opportunities. Having a bunch of people with a scouting background and no real business or data experience is recipe for doing things the way they always have.

Even if you embrace involving data in the decision making process, you're screwed if you don't know how to interpret it well

I don`t know what is wrong with a scouting background.

Not going to debate analytics other then to say that every team should have and keep their own statistical data to supplement their scouting, especially on their own team, in my opinion.

 

[Laurentide]

When the business and hockey side don't agree who wins out?

Business always wins. Bucks before pucks. This is the power that fans have: the ability to have a negative impact on Molson's business when his hockey team doesn't give them what they want. Otherwise he's just going to stay the course and not do anything real. He needs to believe that the only way he's going to make money is if his team wins. If there is no line to be drawn between the two we're screwed. Winning on the balance sheet needs to be conditional to winning on the ice otherwise Molson will never have any incentive to act. There's no use venting your spleen on message boards and call-in shows if all you're going to do afterwards is buy tickets, renew your subscription to Centre Ice and plunk down $300 on a jersey. That's not the message you want to be sending.

 

[Chili]

Business always wins. Bucks before pucks. This is the power that fans have: the ability to have a negative impact on Molson's business when his hockey team doesn't give them what they want. Otherwise he's just going to stay the course and not do anything real. He needs to believe that the only way he's going to make money is if his team wins. If there is no line to be drawn between the two we're screwed. Winning on the balance sheet needs to be conditional to winning on the ice otherwise Molson will never have any incentive to act. There's no use venting your spleen on message boards and call-in shows if all you're going to do afterwards is buy tickets, renew your subscription to Centre Ice and plunk down $300 on a jersey. That's not the message you want to be sending.

That`s the end result.

Molson is all in on the hockey side...until there are empty seats.

I think we are all 'venting' here in some form, including your reply.

 

[lo striver]

Business always wins. Bucks before pucks. This is the power that fans have: the ability to have a negative impact on Molson's business when his hockey team doesn't give them what they want. Otherwise he's just going to stay the course and not do anything real. He needs to believe that the only way he's going to make money is if his team wins. If there is no line to be drawn between the two we're screwed. Winning on the balance sheet needs to be conditional to winning on the ice otherwise Molson will never have any incentive to act. There's no use venting your spleen on message boards and call-in shows if all you're going to do afterwards is buy tickets, renew your subscription to Centre Ice and plunk down $300 on a jersey. That's not the message you want to be sending.

I suspect Mol$ons are probably racking up profits regardless of team's performance. Obviously wining brings more revenues, but it is not like they are losing money. May be clearing the foxhole and paying to another set of front officers & scouts will destroy that profit.

 

[Laurentide]

At the end of the day it's up to Molson to prompt Bergevin into hiring guys like Bouchard or Ducharme. Bergevin will never do this unless he is ordered to because he's smart enough to know that one or both of those guys could replace him. He likes Carrierre because Carrierre poses no threat to him. Same goes for his other foxhole buddies like JJ. They are lightweights who are completely beholden to Bergevin for their employment. Not one of them could get a job on their own merits. This is how Bergevin ensures loyalty; by hiring people more incompetent than himself who can't threaten his position.

Molson should be looking further into the future, to the day after he inevitably has to fire Bergevin. He needs to get people into the organization now who can be groomed to take over from Bergevin. But if he's expecting his current GM to recommend anyone with a functioning brain who might hasten Bergevin's own demise, he'll wait a long time.

 

[Laurentide]

That`s the end result.

Molson is all in on the hockey side...until there are empty seats.

I think we are all 'venting' here in some form, including your reply.

Yes I vent, but I also don't buy tickets, Centre Ice packages or jerseys. I do my part to starve the beast. I watch most games (when I bother to watch them at all) via online streaming to ensure that they get $0 of my money. Molson isn't making a dime off of me, either from his crappy hockey team or his crappy beer.

 

[Tighthead]

Who did Molson ask for advice concerning the GM he should hire ?

Serge Savard, a man who, while being a bit ahead of his time, is totally from the past.

Was even asked to be President at the time, if Im not mistaken.

Would have been nice, in hindsight, cause he criticized Bergevin a couple times, he would have made him walk the line.

But, still, the man is old school, and from the gold age of the Habs.

While I'll always respect Savard, I hope Molson asks the advice of someone younger next time, to get a fresh perspective.

I agree.

I will give Savard credit that he seems to completely regret the choice of MB. Interestingly for an old school guy, Savard intimated in a recent interview that Subban got the shaft and it was a symptom of bigger issues.

 

[Milhouse40]

I suspect that if you look around the league you'll find a lot of organization with a similar structure. That's not a habs thing... most if the time, good players never translate well to management.

I'm not doing your research for you, but if your gonna criticize the habs for hiring grinder (or middling players) and defencemen, I encourage you to look around the league, you won't find anything too dissimilar

Of course i didn't do the exercice for every team....but i know a lot of team are having many offenisve-minded ex-player on their staff....like Sakic, Shanahan, Yzerman, Ropitaille etc..

 

[Laurentide]

Savard may be old school but he knows that you shouldn't cut off your nose to spite your face. Back in the old days there were players that management wanted dealt with. But as long as they were helping the team win, management would put up with them. Then, as soon as they determined that they had come to the end of their usefulness, management would cut them loose. They did it with Doug Harvey. He was involved in trying to start a players' union and management didn't take kindly to that. But unlike other teams (like the Red Wings who punished themselves more than anyone else by trading union agitator Ted Lindsay to Chicago, essentially ripping the heart and soul out of their team in the process) the Habs allowed Harvey to play and help them win Cups. Only when they decided that they could live without him was Harvey dispatched.

If Bergevin were smarter, he'd have hung on to PK until such time as he was of no further use to the club. When you trade a guy in his prime for reasons unrelated to his level of play you are asking for trouble. But ever since Ronald Corey showed up the front office has been hyper-sensitive about protecting the brand and image of the CH to the point where they've lost the plot. It's supposed to be about winning before anything else. That changed with Corey's corporate approach. Today, actually winning is less important than giving the impression that you're trying to win. Image and perception is more important than reality. And now we have a front office that exists in a reality of its own making; a world where they are whatever they think they are.

 

[417]

Savard may be old school but he knows that you shouldn't cut off your nose to spite your face. Back in the old days there were players that management wanted dealt with. But as long as they were helping the team win, management would put up with them. Then, as soon as they determined that they had come to the end of their usefulness, management would cut them loose. They did it with Doug Harvey. He was involved in trying to start a players' union and management didn't take kindly to that. But unlike other teams (like the Red Wings who punished themselves more than anyone else by trading union agitator Ted Lindsay to Chicago, essentially ripping the heart and soul out of their team in the process) the Habs allowed Harvey to play and help them win Cups. Only when they decided that they could live without him was Harvey dispatched.

If Bergevin were smarter, he'd have hung on to PK until such time as he was of no further use to the club. When you trade a guy in his prime for reasons unrelated to his level of play you are asking for trouble. But ever since Ronald Corey showed up the front office has been hyper-sensitive about protecting the brand and image of the CH to the point where they've lost the plot. It's supposed to be about winning before anything else. That changed with Corey's corporate approach. Today, actually winning is less important than giving the impression that you're trying to win. Image and perception is more important than reality. And now we have a front office that exists in a reality of its own making; a world where they are whatever they think they are.

PREACH!!!!